NC Civil Rights

[CLTProductions]

2 hours ago, kermit said:

How would you respond if you saw your friends, neighbors and relatives being killed by the government and you were powerless to intervene? I sorta doubt that standing in Marshall Park with a sign would feel sufficient.

I am in no way advocating violence, I am merely sharing my opinion that its an understandable (and perhaps unavoidable) impulse in our current political climate.

I certainly wouldn't respond the way people did last night. I wouldn't destroy my community. I wouldn't destroy the city that I love. I wouldn't act like an animal like people did last night. We are trying to live in a civilized world and I have a brain and am smart enough to the actions that were taken last night do NOT help my cause. 

Do you think there is even a SLIGHT semblance of sympathy for their cause now? Not an ounce. 

[kermit]

5 minutes ago, Jayvee said:

I certainly wouldn't respond the way people did last night. I wouldn't destroy my community. I wouldn't destroy the city that I love. I wouldn't act like an animal like people did last night. We are trying to live in a civilized world and I have a brain and am smart enough to the actions that were taken last night do NOT help my cause. 

Do you think there is even a SLIGHT semblance of sympathy for their cause now? Not an ounce. 

So what would you do instead?

Here is MLK on riots:

" I would be the first to say that I am still committed to militant, powerful, massive, non­-violence as the most potent weapon in grappling with the problem from a direct action point of view... But it is not enough for me to stand before you tonight and condemn riots. It would be morally irresponsible for me to do that without, at the same time, condemning the contingent, intolerable conditions that exist in our society. These conditions are the things that cause individuals to feel that they have no other alternative than to engage in violent rebellions to get attention. And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard."

[CLTProductions]

1 minute ago, kermit said:

So what would you do instead?

Here is MLK on riots:

" I would be the first to say that I am still committed to militant, powerful, massive, non­-violence as the most potent weapon in grappling with the problem from a direct action point of view... But it is not enough for me to stand before you tonight and condemn riots. It would be morally irresponsible for me to do that without, at the same time, condemning the contingent, intolerable conditions that exist in our society. These conditions are the things that cause individuals to feel that they have no other alternative than to engage in violent rebellions to get attention. And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard."

I have no idea what I would do instead, but it would not be what happened last night. Again, as divided as this nation is, that just divides even more. That accomplished literally nothing. Not one thing other than drive the sides farther apart, embarrass black people who actually behaved like a human being and drive away any sympathy for the cause. 

[kermit]

Just now, Jayvee said:

I have no idea what I would do instead,

Which is exactly my point. When you have no political outlets for your rage you have no choice but resort to violence.

[11 HouseBZ]

Agree on some of your points Kermit, just adding to. The vast majority of violent agitators last night and at recent riots are opportunistic criminals who follow tragedy like this for personal gain. As a result there was a lot of looting and property damage. Those are the ones that travel for this. Some still are local and turn to violence, but most of this is from people with no stake in the city. 

[grodney]

37 minutes ago, Jayvee said:

 

Do you think there is even a SLIGHT semblance of sympathy for their cause now? Not an ounce. 

There is from me.

Edit: Of course, I'd like to think I'm part of "they", even if I'm not actively protesting.

 

[RaleighHeelsfan]

God you liberals disgust me. Ya'll should have to pay for the damage and violence since you believe in it.

[rancenc]

11 hours ago, Dale said:

Charlotte Observer doing its best to fan the flames. But Charlotte's Police Chief acting like a boss, urging the 'silent majority' to stand up and show the nation that this senseless violence is not what Charlotte is about.

The Charlotte Observer is an example of the degeneration of the American media...both visual and print.  This trend seems to be taking a downward spiral beginning with the advent of Social Media in the middle of last decade.  Essentially news reporting and gathering is basically who can get the most sensational, tabloid like news out with a disregard for facts, accuracy, and unbiased reporting.

[ah59396]

8 minutes ago, RaleighHeelsfan said:

God you liberals disgust me. Ya'll should have to pay for the damage and violence since you believe in it.

I agree.  Why bother trying to determine root causes and better understand things when you can just make sweeping generalizations?

 

Last night was disgusting and upsetting for the city.  Why not try stepping back and taking a breath before coming on here and attacking people?

[dxartist]

38 minutes ago, kermit said:

Which is exactly my point. When you have no political outlets for your rage you have no choice but resort to violence.

Kermit,

you are absolutely correct on this point.  All one must do is simply look at Baltimore, Cincinnati, St. Louis, Los Angeles (Rodney King), and so on.

[CLTProductions]

8 minutes ago, dxartist said:

Kermit,

you are absolutely correct on this point.  All one must do is simply look at Baltimore, Cincinnati, St. Louis, Los Angeles (Rodney King), and so on.

ANd what did all those incidents accomplish? Not a thing. Rodney King was 24 (I think) years ago and the same crap is still happening. 

[kickazzz2000]

36 minutes ago, RaleighHeelsfan said:

God you liberals disgust me. Ya'll should have to pay for the damage and violence since you believe in it.

Seriously, dude?

[RaleighHeelsfan]

The dude had a gun..period. All the media talks about is a book. The dude has a record, ignored the cop and went for a gun. It is all fact. So ya'll are the ones that need the facts.

White people got assaulted last night...liberal news does not cover it. Uptown gets destroyed. .Yes, it you support what happened last night you disgust me...REALLY

[SouthEndCLT811]

 

[RaleighHeelsfan]

Pure animals...pain and simple!

 

8 minutes ago, SouthEndCLT811 said:

 

 

[nonillogical]

1 hour ago, Jayvee said:

Do you think there is even a SLIGHT semblance of sympathy for their cause now? Not an ounce. 

Don't presume to speak for everyone. I assume by "they" you mean BLM, and no matter how much opportunistic criminals tarnish a protest movement with actions like these, it does not invalidate their original cause, at least in my mind. Just because this happened around a very grey area shooting that may have in fact been justified (not enough info out there yet), doesn't mean that some of the wholly inexcusable shootings (Castille, Rice, Crutcher) didn't happen and that there isn't a systemic problem. It just means that a group of people who were ready for any excuse to riot in this region saw one and seized it. 

[CLT2014]

7 minutes ago, nonillogical said:

Don't presume to speak for everyone. I assume by "they" you mean BLM, and no matter how much opportunistic criminals tarnish a protest movement with actions like these, it does not invalidate their original cause, at least in my mind. Just because this happened around a very grey area shooting that may have in fact been justified (not enough info out there yet), doesn't mean that some of the wholly inexcusable shootings (Castille, Rice, Crutcher) didn't happen and that there isn't a systemic problem. It just means that a group of people who were ready for any excuse to riot in this region saw one and seized it. 

I think the hard thing for people is there are multiple people that claim to be a part of BLM. Some call for violence and beating people up, others call for peaceful protests, others call for lobbying, etc... with all the information being thrown at people and all the different methods people want to use as part of BLM, how does the general public determine who are the "true" BLM supporters. If somebody says they are a part of BLM and then beats a person up in a parking garage and spray paints it on the walls, are they not a part of BLM and who gets to determine if they are?

[CLTProductions]

I guess I should say that these out of aggressors invalidate any cause and its a shame. There needs to be better leadership. This is getting nowhere in its current form. Something has to change, and violent riots aren't moving the dial. 

[kickazzz2000]

43 minutes ago, RaleighHeelsfan said:

The dude had a gun..period. All the media talks about is a book. The dude has a record, ignored the cop and went for a gun. It is all fact. So ya'll are the ones that need the facts.

White people got assaulted last night...liberal news does not cover it. Uptown gets destroyed. .Yes, it you support what happened last night you disgust me...REALLY

Who supports this violence?  Give me one example.  Why are you labeling an entire group of people?  Do you think you are being constructive at all?

[NYCLT]

 

2 minutes ago, kickazzz2000 said:

Who supports this violence?  Give me one example.  Why are you labeling an entire group of people?  Do you think you are being constructive at all?

 

2 hours ago, kermit said:

Which is exactly my point. When you have no political outlets for your rage you have no choice but resort to violence.

 

[NYCLT]

In 2015, officers killed 662 whites and Hispanics, and 258 blacks. Blacks made up 26% of all police shootings while representing 13% of the population.

However, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, blacks were charged with 62% of all robberies, 57% of murders and 45% of assaults in the 75 largest U.S. counties in 2009, though they made up roughly 15% of the population there.

Did anyone ever think that representing 3-5 times more violent crime in these categories per capita has anything to do with double the police shootings per capita?

This is my opinion, but I'm willing to bet that something like 90% of police shootings happen on calls for robbery, homicide and assault. Increased crime demands increased police presence and you're 3-5 times more likely to get a call to a violent crime with this group. The higher number of interactions in dangerous situations, called to a violent crime, means a higher likelihood of shootings, justifiable or not. In order to say there is a systemic problem, you can't look at 1-2 videos every few months - they are shocking but do not prove a systemic problem.

For those of you who support BLM, what exactly from a policy standpoint do you want to see happen? I'm just curious because it seems like they're always compounding the problem instead of trying to solve it

[cltbwimob]

1 hour ago, kermit said:

Which is exactly my point. When you have no political outlets for your rage you have no choice but resort to violence.

I know you said you don't condone this violence, but rationalizations like the one above and the other post in which you said you don't believe the actions by the rioters was inappropriate portends a tacit approval of the violence you say you don't condone.  You can't have it both ways.  

The fact is the city that we all [presumably] love is under attack.  Innocent people are getting hurt.  Businesses which had nothing to do with the shooting in question are getting looted, vandalized, and destroyed.  People's livelihoods are being affected in a very negative way all because of an action that can not possibly be racially motivated and appears to be self defense based on eyewitness accounts and evidence collected at the scene.  To justify or rationalize  the actions of these rioters given what early evidence suggests is, in my opinion, a wholesale departure from rational thought.  It is a warped view of justice-a view of justice that is not just at all-and is driven by the same type of "shoot first; ask questions later" mentality that people claim is so rampant in the police force.  That anybody, especially someone who is as well-reasoned as you normally are, would take such a tack as to say that what is happening in Charlotte is not inappropriate or that the protestors have no other recourse but violence is disappointing in every sense of the word.  You're better than this.

Here is what I hope happens tonight-let protestors make peaceful protests all they want.  However, the moment it turns violent, I hope the National Guard is on standby waiting to crush it.  If that means hundreds or thousands of arrests, so be it.  But these opportunistic assholes who are assaulting people, looting, vandalizing, etc need to feel the heavy hand of justice descend on them.  It's one thing for a mob to pick on a single unarmed person and beat them as in the video.  It's quite another for that same mob to try picking on Soldiers many of whom have been battle hardened in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[RaleighHeelsfan]

What cause is that? A innocent black cop who shot in self defense?

52 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

I think the hard thing for people is there are multiple people that claim to be a part of BLM. Some call for violence and beating people up, others call for peaceful protests, others call for lobbying, etc... with all the information being thrown at people and all the different methods people want to use as part of BLM, how does the general public determine who are the "true" BLM supporters. If somebody says they are a part of BLM and then beats a person up in a parking garage and spray paints it on the walls, are they not a part of BLM and who gets to determine if they are?

 

59 minutes ago, nonillogical said:

Don't presume to speak for everyone. I assume by "they" you mean BLM, and no matter how much opportunistic criminals tarnish a protest movement with actions like these, it does not invalidate their original cause, at least in my mind. Just because this happened around a very grey area shooting that may have in fact been justified (not enough info out there yet), doesn't mean that some of the wholly inexcusable shootings (Castille, Rice, Crutcher) didn't happen and that there isn't a systemic problem. It just means that a group of people who were ready for any excuse to riot in this region saw one and seized it. 

 

[tozmervo]

20 minutes ago, cltbwimob said:

I know you said you don't condone this violence, but rationalizations like the one above and the other post in which you said you don't believe the actions by the rioters was inappropriate portends a tacit approval of the violence you say you don't condone.  You can't have it both ways.  

You can understand the source of the violence without condoning it. 

[ah59396]

@kermit is not advocating for violence.  The point they are trying to make is when certain people feel like they've got nothing left to lose, they are going to lash out...violently.  It isn't a justification for violence, and I've yet to see how Kermit is validating the violence in any of their posts.  No one supports what occurred last night, it was awful.  The violence wasn't warranted, it wasn't helpful to the cause of those that were there peacefully protesting and it doesn't help anything.

If a group of people, or an individual, or whatever you want to call it, feels like it has no political voice, no representation, no respect, no protection or support from police, no voice at all...than in their mind this is the only option left.  I don't get it myself, but I've never worn their shoes.  Neither have most of you, I presume. 

 

And quite frankly, isn't American history littered with examples of violence and rioting as a means of proving a point?