The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[CenterHill]

50 minutes ago, donNdonelson2 said:

The renderings show streetlights. I cannot imagine that they won’t be installed. Looks like they wanted to get the lanes of traffic open, even if details remained on the “to do” list.

The renderings show the light poles mounted about six inches from passing cars.   We all know how that will end for the light poles.   Why in the world would you not mount them on the outside of the bridge railing?   

[Baronakim]

1 hour ago, CenterHill said:

The renderings show the light poles mounted about six inches from passing cars.   We all know how that will end for the light poles.   Why in the world would you not mount them on the outside of the bridge railing?   

The renderings show that the rather boring  poles are elevated on a concrete planter about 30" high.  While this will provide separation of vehicular and pedestrian paths, I don't see any curbing or such to keep the automobiles from damaging the planter wall.  I hope there are provisions planned that just don't show up on the renderings.  I really don't want to see a failure like the bollards on the Division streey overpass... massively poor design IMO.    They didn't last a SINGLE DAY without damage.

 

[CenterHill]

2 hours ago, Baronakim said:

The renderings show that the rather boring  poles are elevated on a concrete planter about 30" high.  While this will provide separation of vehicular and pedestrian paths, I don't see any curbing or such to keep the automobiles from damaging the planter wall.  I hope there are provisions planned that just don't show up on the renderings.  I really don't want to see a failure like the bollards on the Division streey overpass... massively poor design IMO.    They didn't last a SINGLE DAY without damage.

 

Hmm, you may be right.  Based on the blurb @donNdonelson2posted saying the sidewalk space “allowed for concrete planters to be placed separating traffic from pedestrians”, I was reading it to say the planters were not a wall and not part of the bridge design.  Thought they were saying the design leaves room for someone else, Metro, to have the option to install, or not, a line of individual concrete boxes (aka trash receptacles) in between the sidewalk mounted light poles.  But haven’t seen it in person and curious if the bridge as of now even includes wiring for lighting or if that is up to Metro to drill, wire and install later.   Like most, I’m underwhelmed by the finished product.  

[donNdonelson2]

3 hours ago, CenterHill said:

The renderings show the light poles mounted about six inches from passing cars.   We all know how that will end for the light poles.   Why in the world would you not mount them on the outside of the bridge railing?   

Looks like street lamp posts are located near the street along the sidewalk at other stretches of Broadway. 
(image from Google street view)

[Sean blackdog]

Today this evening. 
Broadway Bridge. 

[CenterHill]

1 hour ago, donNdonelson2 said:

Looks like street lamp posts are located near the street along the sidewalk at other stretches of Broadway. 
(image from Google street view)

True.  So may be continuing this design on the bridge.  With planters. 

[markhollin]

Broadway Viaduct updates:
 

[smeagolsfree]

I think Skyscrapergeeks kid could do a better job at design than the ding dongs that designed this one. No offence Pete, but TDOT is just hiring HS grads these days it looks. The State in all of its glorious wisdom spending the bare bones minimum into the gateway of Nashville to show off the premier city of the state. 

 

Metro will probably do no better by not enforcing the speed limit either. All they need to do is sit there between 8 and 10 and write tickets. I will bet they will catch cyclist going over the speed limit. I saw Metro for the first time in a long-time writing tickets on Labor Day but the problem was there was not a lot of traffic out.

 

[rolly]

The current state of mass transportation; passenger train networks in USA compared with Europe. 

[nashville born]

14 minutes ago, rolly said:

The current state of mass transportation; passenger train networks in USA compared with Europe. 

IMO, as long as the country is run by corporations, this will never change.  Translation:  if we had extensive rail options, would we need to BUY as many cars, or BUY as much gas, or BUY as many  parts/accessories, or BUY as much insurance?  We aren't set up for the convenience of the citizenry,  We're set up to drive capitalism.  This isn't a rant/gripe, just sharing an opinion.  I think once we understand this, things that don't make sense start to actually make sense.

[Nathan_in_DC]

1 hour ago, smeagolsfree said:

Metro will probably do no better by not enforcing the speed limit either. All they need to do is sit there between 8 and 10 and write tickets. I will bet they will catch cyclist going over the speed limit. I saw Metro for the first time in a long-time writing tickets on Labor Day but the problem was there was not a lot of traffic out.

 

This is the key right here. They just built a 6-lane highway through a dense, pedestrian area. It's almost as if they were intentionally avoiding integrating pedestrian or cyclist safety in the design. No bus lanes, no bike lanes. Narrow sidewalks without any real traffic separation. And 6 long, wide, straight lanes that invite people to go 15, 20, 30 mph over the limit. People WILL die as a DIRECT result of this thoughtless, lazy, outdated design, and NO ONE will be held accountable for it.

This might as well have been a design submitted by General Motors or Ford to the city in 1980.

[Luvemtall]

IMO this bridge and all of Broadway from the West End split to 5th Avenue should be one lane in both directions for automobiles, one in both directions for BRT then a landscaped barrier followed by bike lanes and a raised pedestrian sidewalk. Then from 5th Avenue to Riverfront park permanently closed to traffic and a pedestrian plaza built to form an entertainment district . 

6 hours ago, markhollin said:

Broadway Viaduct updates:
 

 

[PaulChinetti]

It would be super cool to have a street car from 1st all the way down to Centennial Park. 

[bnacincy]

Broadway downtown was a 6 lane highway before I was born....given Nashville's current traffic situation they weren't going to change that in any significant way.

The situation in Europe is different so the rail situation is not comparable to the US except perhaps in the Northeast Corridor which like much of Europe has a heavier population density than the rest of the US, so rail makes more sense there.

Also, people are not going to get out of their cars in this country-cars are not just a mode of transportation, they have become part of the national psyche, they are totally wrapped up in one's identity. Indeed, when I was in high school I was laughed at in class one time as the teacher was giving out bus passes for those who rode MTA occasionally as I did to get to my guitar lesson at Cotton Music in Hillsboro Village. So there is almost a stigma to public transportation.

And what's funny is, Europe in some parts anyway is becoming almost as bad with regard to cars. When I would go on business trips to a trade show in Germany I would fly to Amsterdam and rent a car to drive to Cologne-I quit taking the train because I got my wallet lifted in Amsterdam's Centraal Station- and the Autobahn in Germany was as bad as I-65 coming into downtown Nashville-and this was 20 years ago. The joke in the Netherlands is "does anyone work in this country?" because the motorways there are constantly crowded. I drove the A4 from Rotterdam to Amsterdam on a midday once and despite the fact that Dutch Railways runs trains between those two cities almost hourly it was a freakin' parking lot.

So we have to be realistic about public transit in this country. The best thing to do is perhaps start with baby steps. As  the traffic situation in Nashville grows worse, people might be willing to drive to a park and ride in order to get to somewhere like Downtown or the airport, or maybe even Green Hills. So the City could start out building some additional Park n Ride locations throughout Metro along with adding additional busses. Nothing dramatic maybe, but it could be a start.

Just a thought.

Edited September 8, 2023 by bnacincy
Content

[Luvemtall]

3 hours ago, bnacincy said:

 

Broadway downtown was a 6 lane highway before I was born....given Nashville's current traffic situation they weren't going to change that in any significant way.

 

Exactly what I’ve been talking about, so many are stuck in the mindset of “ that’s the way it was back in my youth “ or “it’s always been that way “ it’s time to take them chains off and open up one’s eyes and mind. Things have changed and will continue to do so, Nashvillains need to start looking at ways to improve infrastructure for tomorrow, look forward not dwell in the past and say it can’t be done. It can be done, people will get used to the change and the city will be better off in the long run. 

[BnaBreaker]

1 hour ago, Luvemtall said:

Exactly what I’ve been talking about, so many are stuck in the mindset of “ that’s the way it was back in my youth “ or “it’s always been that way “ it’s time to take them chains off and open up one’s eyes and mind. Things have changed and will continue to do so, Nashvillains need to start looking at ways to improve infrastructure for tomorrow, look forward not dwell in the past and say it can’t be done. It can be done, people will get used to the change and the city will be better off in the long run. 

Exactly.  On infrastructure Tennessee always seems to be lagging behind, always playing catchup, always waiting for problems to arise only to put the most cost effective band aid possible on the problem ... never at the forefront getting ahead of problems before they happen.

[nashvillain_too]

On 9/8/2023 at 3:43 PM, bnacincy said:

Also, people are not going to get out of their cars in this country-cars are not just a mode of transportation, they have become part of the national psyche, they are totally wrapped up in one's identity. Indeed, when I was in high school I was laughed at in class one time as the teacher was giving out bus passes for those who rode MTA occasionally as I did to get to my guitar lesson at Cotton Music in Hillsboro Village. So there is almost a stigma to public transportation.

Public policy should not be based on anecdotes. I don't know when you were in high school, but times have changed. Lots of kids these days aren't even getting their drivers' licenses. Speaking of anecdotes, my stepson is 16 and doesn't have his learner's permit, let alone a license. Maybe he's just lazy or maybe he's influenced by the increasing perception among younger generations that car dependency sucks. Considering motor vehicle accidents are the leading cause of death for teenagers, can you blame them? 

People won't get out of their cars because it's virtually impossible to exist without them, not because some mythical car culture. People all over the country are desperate for options--walkable neighborhoods, reliable transit--as evidenced by the premium people are willing to pay to live in areas that make that somewhat feasible. 

 

[andywildman]

On 9/8/2023 at 1:05 PM, PaulChinetti said:

It would be super cool to have a street car from 1st all the way down to Centennial Park. 

Free streetcars (for tourists & downtown residents alike) have been a boon for Cincinnati's and Kansas City's downtowns. A Broadway streetcar from the Parthenon to the Cumberland would immediately be bigger than KC's 4k/day ridership, and it would connect

• the East Bank (Titans)
• Lower Broad
• the CBD
• the Gulch
• Nashville Yards
• Midtown dealerships
• Vandy
• Centennial Park
• and the hospital district.

Plug that into a future Murfreesboro Pike light rail, and airport tourists can do downtown Nashville without ever needing a car.

[nashmoney]

21 minutes ago, andywildman said:

Free streetcars (for tourists & downtown residents alike) have been a boon for Cincinnati's and Kansas City's downtowns. A Broadway streetcar from the Parthenon to the Cumberland would immediately be bigger than KC's 4k/day ridership, and it would connect

• the East Bank (Titans)
• Lower Broad
• the CBD
• the Gulch
• Nashville Yards
• Midtown dealerships
• Vandy
• Centennial Park
• and the hospital district.

Plug that into a future Murfreesboro Pike light rail, and airport tourists can do downtown Nashville without ever needing a car.

I know Karl Dean's AMP wasn't too popular, and car dealers and anti transit people ultimately killed it, but it would have covered all of those areas you mentioned and ended at St Thomas in belle meade. 

I definitely think it would have been very successful, especially given Nashville's popularity with tourist, events, and residents now living in that area. 

[PaulChinetti]

Yeah I want to start small, it seems the public in general doesn't see the forest for the trees. So we have to show them, how easy it is, start small and expand. 

 

[gannman]

28 minutes ago, PaulChinetti said:

Yeah I want to start small, it seems the public in general doesn't see the forest for the trees. So we have to show them, how easy it is, start small and expand. 

 

The biggest obstacle would be selling it to the state.

[PaulChinetti]

Ugh, can we reclassify that as not a state route?

[bnacincy]

9 hours ago, nashvillain_too said:

Public policy should not be based on anecdotes. I don't know when you were in high school, but times have changed. Lots of kids these days aren't even getting their drivers' licenses. Speaking of anecdotes, my stepson is 16 and doesn't have his learner's permit, let alone a license. Maybe he's just lazy or maybe he's influenced by the increasing perception among younger generations that car dependency sucks. Considering motor vehicle accidents are the leading cause of death for teenagers, can you blame them? 

People won't get out of their cars because it's virtually impossible to exist without them, not because some mythical car culture. People all over the country are desperate for options--walkable neighborhoods, reliable transit--as evidenced by the premium people are willing to pay to live in areas that make that somewhat feasible. 

 

So what's the plan? Most people can't afford to pay the premium as you put it to live in an older, traditional urban neighborhood, so what do you suggest?

If you are going to be critical of car dependency in this country then put forth substantive, viable alternatives instead of making sweeping generalizations about folks all over the country being desperate for options.

If that is indeed the case, then what are the options?  I made a suggestion-now what do you say?

[donNdonelson2]

12 hours ago, nashvillain_too said:

I don't know when you were in high school, but times have changed. Lots of kids these days aren't even getting their drivers' licenses.

And lots of kids today who don’t want to drive depend on Uber and Uber Eats for their transportation related wants and needs. So they don’t want the bother of driving, but they still want the benefits of somebody driving.

[rolly]

That sure escalated quickly.