The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[titanhog]

33 minutes ago, nativetenn said:

Really? I haven't experienced any slowdowns on that part of 840 (or any other part for that matter). Maybe I haven't driven through it during rush hour. I have driven through the 65/840/Hwy 431 interchange regularly between 8am and 9am, and I've experienced some merging congestion there. But that has never come to a steady slowdown for me.

Yeah...I've driven through there many times around 6pm and has come to a complete standstill when you get close to M'boro.   But...that whole stretch is WAY busier than it was 5 years ago.  I bet they'll end up having to widen 840 between 24-65 within 10 years.

[LA_TN]

1 hour ago, nativetenn said:

Really? I haven't experienced any slowdowns on that part of 840 (or any other part for that matter). Maybe I haven't driven through it during rush hour. I have driven through the 65/840/Hwy 431 interchange regularly between 8am and 9am, and I've experienced some merging congestion there. But that has never come to a steady slowdown for me.

I don't regularly drive 840, but I have experienced it being bumper to bumper traffic during rush hours and I have seen it turn into a parking lot a few times. It's also very busy between Lebanon and Gladeville

[Nash_12South]

Interesting story on scooters in today's Tennessean. After 3 deaths since May, Atlanta is banning scooter use from 9pm to 4 am. A CDC study in Austin showed 192 incidents in 3 months of 2018, Nearly half were head injuries, 15% of those were traumatic brain injuries. Less than 1% of the injured wore helmets.

From a client this week, Milwaukee is going through a similar scooter debate. Scooters were dumped into the city with no warning or permits. They were banned and then Lime allowed to have 500, under rules. It's not working, as scooters are still primarily ridden on sidewalks and left wherever. Not enough bike lanes or help from the city. Small but vocal group pushing group to remove them. The mayor is trying to work with them though.

Edited August 9, 2019 by Nash_12South

[12Mouth]

1 hour ago, Nash_12South said:

Interesting story on scooters in today's Tennessean. After 3 deaths since May, Atlanta is banning scooter use from 9pm to 4 am. A CDC study in Austin showed 192 incidents in 3 months of 2018, Nearly half were head injuries, 15% of those were traumatic brain injuries. Less than 1% of the injured wore helmets.

My understanding is that ATL is also putting a curfew on rental ebikes. I think this is a slippery slope. If eBikes, then why not all bike share? Why not all cyclists? I think bikes (and ebikes) are fundamentally different than scooters in terms of user comfort/past experience, acceleration rate, and generally not attracting joy riders. Regulating them exactly the same (as we also do in Nashville despite not yet having them in the market) doesn’t make a ton of sense to me.

[Nash_12South]

I doubt they'd be regulating anything without good reason. It's likely as with the scooters, people unwilling to follow the rules.

I'd have much less problem with scooters were it not for adults, too self centered, too self absorbed to read and follow pretty straightforward rules. Don't agree with the rules, don't ride the scooters.

[12Mouth]

On 8/9/2019 at 1:58 PM, Nash_12South said:

 

I doubt they'd be regulating anything without good reason. It's likely as with the scooters, people unwilling to follow the rules.

 

But this really hasn’t been shown with ebikes. The injury rate is way lower than scooters and bikers aren’t out there trying to do tricks off a curb. The “good reason” is that it is simply easier to call everything a SUMD than to draft different legislation for different mobility options. The idea that we think it is dangerous to bike at night and would ban it is troubling to me. 

[markhollin]

Gov. Lee told 800 attendees at Friday's Nashville Business Breakfast that he may support changing a law to allow Nashville more flexibility to tackle its growing transit and traffic issues.

Lee hired Clay Bright, a former longtime Nashville construction executive, to lead the Tennessee Department of Transportation.

"We have a huge responsibility to be proactive and think ahead about infrastructure. Clay and I talk a lot about our responsibility to think ahead about how it is that we provide the kind of infrastructure that will allow our state to grow and prosper," Lee said. "We want to take a major role at the state in helping invest in that."

Lee said he's tapping into a transportation subcommittee at the National Governors Association, which he said is "looking at how states with rapidly growing cities are solving their infrastructure challenges."

"There are proactive ways to pursue that, and I intend to be very proactive about that," Lee said.

More behind the NBJ paywall here:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2019/08/16/nashvilles-traffic-is-on-gov-lees-radar.html?iana=hpmvp_nsh_news_headline

[nashvylle]

This is honestly the best news I’ve heard for transportation in Nashville’s history. 

a republican governor to be on board with anything other than “more interstates more highways” is a huge win. 

[BnaBreaker]

1 hour ago, nashvylle said:

This is honestly the best news I’ve heard for transportation in Nashville’s history. 

a republican governor to be on board with anything other than “more interstates more highways” is a huge win. 

Agreed.  I must admit I am eating crow because I never in a million years thought that it would be Governor Lee who would be the one to get the transit momentum moving again in the right direction.  Good on ya gov'na!  You have impressed me today.  

Edited August 17, 2019 by BnaBreaker

[Nash_12South]

I think we’re past “proactive” and more into catching up.....Good news though.

[smeagolsfree]

This was another talking point this morning and the thoughts were he may have been getting push back from companies looking to move here as the city is unable to do this by itself.

Nashville and middle TN is the engine that is driving a lot of the economy of the state right now with corporate expansions and relocations and if that slows or drys up because of lack of transit then the State will end up suffering. 

The Congressmen  and Senators from the outlying parts of the state will have to be brought into line one way or the other to see that tax dollars are being brought into the state because of MD TN not in spite of. Besides I hope they all get stuck in traffic trying to get home after a long session of the legislature. 

[e-dub]

[BnaBreaker]

Just a quick head's up that the focus topic of the most recent episode of Patriot Act with Hasan Minhaj on Netflix was Public Transportation, and Nashville's most recent failed plan got a couple minutes of coverage.  They didn't go over anything most of us didn't already know, but it was still interesting to hear discussions we've had on this forum about local issues be brought forth on a national stage like that.  Check it out if you have Netflix!

Edited August 21, 2019 by BnaBreaker

[markhollin]

In its eleventh hour, Nashville Metro Council rejected a call for a ban on electric scooters in Nashville. 

In the last council meeting of the four-year term, council members voted Tuesday night against legislation by Council member Steve Glover for a complete and full ban in a 7-24 vote. 

Now, scooters will stay in Nashville until a selection process to allow up to three companies to operate in the city if they meet certain requirements is finalized in the next few months. 

More at The Tennessean here:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/2019/08/20/nashville-rejects-ban-electric-scooters-metro-council-vote/2062869001/

[PaulChinetti]

8 hours ago, BnaBreaker said:

Just a quick head's up that the focus topic of the most recent episode of Patriot Act with Hasan Minhaj on Netflix was Public Transportation, and Nashville's most recent failed plan got a couple minutes of coverage.  They didn't go over anything most of us didn't already know, but it was still interesting to hear discussions we've had on this forum about local issues be brought forth on a national stage like that.  Check it out if you have Netflix!

He starts talking about AFP around this point. Enjoy

[titanhog]

Yeah...of course you guys want to blame the Koch brothers for the failed transit initiative here...but deep inside, you know they are way down the list of the reasons why that initiative failed in Nashville.

The mayor’s affair with her employee...the lack of transparency on the fact it would have not eased traffic issues...the extreme overreach when it came to the scope of the project instead of taking a smaller bite...etc.

Koch brothers, Beaman, etc had less to do with the defeat than the inherent issues created by the mayor’s team of clueless people.

[PaulChinetti]

I don't feel like re-litigating it but I'm not saying they played the only part. The administration's lack of communication probably did more to amplify the AFP message more than anything. But to not blame them at all is also false. 

[markhollin]

18 hours ago, titanhog said:

 

Koch brothers, Beaman, etc had less to do with the defeat than the inherent issues created by the mayor’s team of clueless people.

Well....those "clueless people" happened to do over 100 town halls (attended by over 10,000 people) and a tremendous amount of research in putting that proposal together that many folks happen to think was a pretty good plan, especially when dealing with long term issues of developing corridors, etc.   It could just as easily be said that there were tens of thousands of "clueless voters" who don't know a damn thing about public transportation (specifically how it interacts with state and federal funding, etc.)  who voted it down.  

However, that's all water under the bridge now.  Have to start with a clean slate and try to come up with something else.  But whomever are the mayors are over the next few decades are going to have a helluva time getting anything meaningful in place until the citizenry understands that solutions are going to cost money....and my guess is an overarching plan is going to be substantially MORE than the $5.7 billion proposed last year as inflation continues upward. 

 

[MLBrumby]

And I repeat! For any rail or dedicated bus transit to be accepted (and successful) in Nashville, the routes will have to be parallel to the main thoroughfares, NOT on them. Citizens don't want to compete with trains/buses on the same roads.  There's a  throwback to when the first MARTA lines were approved (voted on by the various counties. In Fulton, the biggest concern outside of cost was that a transit alternative would take up precious street space. Once the routes were planned and communicated to voters, it received favorable support.

Yes, it was a different era, and sales taxes in Atlanta were relatively low. But the sales job was long and cut across three levels... cost, access, traffic mitigation. Of course, they did a few things really poorly such as not taking a line closer to the old Fulton Co. Stadium. 

Nashville's pitch last year failed b/c of the mayor, her grandiose plan for a tunnel (aka subway) and the pitch was never made to people who thought/knew they'd never use it. 

[smeagolsfree]

28 minutes ago, MLBrumby said:

And I repeat! For any rail or dedicated bus transit to be accepted (and successful) in Nashville, the routes will have to be parallel to the main thoroughfares, NOT on them. Citizens don't want to compete with trains/buses on the same roads.  There's a  throwback to when the first MARTA lines were approved (voted on by the various counties. In Fulton, the biggest concern outside of cost was that a transit alternative would take up precious street space. Once the routes were planned and communicated to voters, it received favorable support.

Yes, it was a different era, and sales taxes in Atlanta were relatively low. But the sales job was long and cut across three levels... cost, access, traffic mitigation. Of course, they did a few things really poorly such as not taking a line closer to the old Fulton Co. Stadium. 

Nashville's pitch last year failed b/c of the mayor, her grandiose plan for a tunnel (aka subway) and the pitch was never made to people who thought/knew they'd never use it. 

That will probably not work becuase there is no where to put the lines coming in from the burbs. They key is you take the HOV lanes away from the drivers, put the mass transit there, rail or bus,  then it forces the decission on them as to if they want to be stuck in traffic or on transit. The state already owns the right of ways, but getting them to give it up and the feds on board is another thing all together.

You can bring all the transit in the state into downtown, but if there is not a viable way to move the bodies around once they are there, then all of that rail or bus transit is absolutely useless.

[CenterHill]

Putting a multi-billion dollar transit initiative to a public referendum presents an enormous challenge for any city.    It's difficult to generate buy-in for transit across the needed majority of voters, when less than a majority believe they will personally use it.    That's just how people vote and it's why transit referendums fail in city after city (with a few exceptions).    In Nashville's case, you can add to that the additional factors referenced above (particularly a mayor's office in disarray), including that prior to the referendum, the mayor and council were publicly grappling with budget shortfalls and cutbacks to schools, police and other services.      

[MLBrumby]

33 minutes ago, smeagolsfree said:

That will probably not work becuase there is no where to put the lines coming in from the burbs. They key is you take the HOV lanes away from the drivers, put the mass transit there, rail or bus,  then it forces the decission on them as to if they want to be stuck in traffic or on transit. The state already owns the right of ways, but getting them to give it up and the feds on board is another thing all together.

You can bring all the transit in the state into downtown, but if there is not a viable way to move the bodies around once they are there, then all of that rail or bus transit is absolutely useless.

Buses can be used inside the loop.

LRT (if that ever gets the green light) can go along other public rights of way (e.g. Hayes Street to Grundy Street with a stop at Rosa Parks). Nashville getting close to missing that boat! Of course, they missed COMPLETELY being able to buy enough land in SoBro for a transit stop. I mean, who wouldn't have seen a convention center transit hub being essential for any transit plan? The (lack of) foresight of Nashville officials is appalling.

30 minutes ago, CenterHill said:

Putting a multi-billion dollar transit initiative to a public referendum presents an enormous challenge for any city.    It's difficult to generate buy-in for transit across the needed majority of voters, when less than a majority believe they will personally use it.    That's just how people vote and it's why transit referendums fail in city after city (with a few exceptions).    In Nashville's case, you can add to that the additional factors referenced above (particularly a mayor's office in disarray), including that prior to the referendum, the mayor and council were publicly grappling with budget shortfalls and cutbacks to schools, police and other services.      

So do you think Nashville officials should just give up on transit? Some people do. 

I also think part of the failure of the previous plan was that it relied too much on TDOT money. 

Edited August 21, 2019 by MLBrumby

[smeagolsfree]

29 minutes ago, MLBrumby said:

Buses can be used inside the loop.

LRT (if that ever gets the green light) can go along other public rights of way (e.g. Hayes Street to Grundy Street with a stop at Rosa Parks). Nashville getting close to missing that boat! Of course, they missed COMPLETELY being able to buy enough land in SoBro for a transit stop. I mean, who wouldn't have seen a convention center transit hub being essential for any transit plan? The (lack of) foresight of Nashville officials is appalling.

So do you think Nashville officials should just give up on transit? Some people do. 

I also think part of the failure of the previous plan was that it relied too much on TDOT money. 

No, As a matter of facy when Cooper is elected and he will be, he is planning on having a transit plan released during his first year. Now that the Governor seems to be open to changing the state law to keep funds from being used for cities, there could be movement. People are getting  upset, but most of themm are commuters from outside the county.

[CenterHill]

4 minutes ago, MLBrumby said:

So do you think Nashville officials should just give up on transit? Some people do. 

No, no, not saying that.    We absolutely need to address transit and I want to see the next mayor be proactive on it.     Just saying the lesson learned for Nashville is if you're going to go bold and put something to the voters, the mayor and council will have to do a better job of making the case and singing off the same sheet.      You'll recall when Barry rolled out her plan, Council was caught off guard.   Many said they hadn't even seen the plan ahead of time and weren't in a position to help sell it to their constituents.    As a result, you had some council members for it and others taking issue with different parts of it.         

[PaulChinetti]

17 minutes ago, smeagolsfree said:

No, As a matter of facy when Cooper is elected and he will be, he is planning on having a transit plan released during his first year. 

Has he been doing the amount research, community input like the last plan or is he going to crib most of the current plan. Did he think there was too much research with the last plan? 

Maybe he can get buy-in from the outer portions of the county because of his focus on “neighborhoods” (still don’t know what that means), because if the red ring around downtown doesn’t vote for it it’s not gonna happen again.