SunRail

[codypet]

3 hours ago, jliv said:

https://news.yahoo.com/sunrail-airport-expansion-promises-big-234633758.html

The FDOT has shared a $2 billion dollar estimate for the “Sunshine Corridor”.  This is not surprising to me, given that the system they are proposing is more akin to a light-rail-like system with 15-minute service frequency on a dedicated route from the airport to Disney.  This seems very much an initial SWAG (silly wild-ass guess), finger-in-the-wind number; I’m curious about the infrastructure build costs of the Taft-Vineland leg of the new rail route, which is the biggest technical challenge. Also, how would this be paid for?  Given the typical funding formula, local governments would have to cough up $500 million in addition to a presumed $1 billion federal grant and $500 million state grant.  Maybe go back to the voters in Orange County with a 1/2 penny tax proposal with a much more concrete plan for this new system, throwing in an east-west BRT connection for more broad support? (The Kissimmee-OIA route would be funded by Osceola County) . 

In 2010.  Orlando to Tampa HSR was $2.6 billion.   Now the $2b number only gets you a fraction of the way there.  TVR is only busier  and complex than it originally was.  Its really hard to lock down these early estimates, but I still think the TDT should be funding some of this.

Edited October 2, 2023 by codypet

[Alleri459]

I do believe TDT should absolutely help some of this. For the amount of money they want to pump into the Convention Center this could fund a nice chunk of this route and help create a better marketing and investment tool for the OCCC. A much better investment move.

[aent]

11 hours ago, codypet said:

In 2010.  Orlando to Tampa HSR was $2.6 billion.   Now the $2b number only gets you a fraction of the way there.  TVR is only busier  and complex than it originally was.  Its really hard to lock down these early estimates, but I still think the TDT should be funding some of this.

I think its important to note that the I4's Beyond the Ultimate project includes provisions for the HSR including on all the bridges, and at this point, its been fully funded and is starting construction next year on the 14 miles through Osceola and Polk county.... that should presumably make Brightline construction much easier

[Ivanhoe]

18 hours ago, aent said:

I think its important to note that the I4's Beyond the Ultimate project includes provisions for the HSR including on all the bridges, and at this point, its been fully funded and is starting construction next year on the 14 miles through Osceola and Polk county.... that should presumably make Brightline construction much easier

Agree - HSR cannot happen without federal assistance. A shame the actual HSR was shot down by Rick Scott meanwhile the taxpayers fill the coffers of Brightline.

[jrs2]

On 10/2/2023 at 10:43 PM, aent said:

I think its important to note that the I4's Beyond the Ultimate project includes provisions for the HSR including on all the bridges, and at this point, its been fully funded and is starting construction next year on the 14 miles through Osceola and Polk county.... that should presumably make Brightline construction much easier

when are they going to begin the northern Beyond The Ultimate segment from SR 434 north?

[jrs2]

On 10/2/2023 at 10:43 PM, aent said:

I think its important to note that the I4's Beyond the Ultimate project includes provisions for the HSR including on all the bridges, and at this point, its been fully funded and is starting construction next year on the 14 miles through Osceola and Polk county.... that should presumably make Brightline construction much easier

Is the OUC Spur still the only and/or preferred track and/or easement to get to OIA for Sunrail even if Sunshine Corridor never happens?

[codypet]

16 hours ago, jrs2 said:

when are they going to begin the northern Beyond The Ultimate segment from SR 434 north?

I believe that's been put on hold until Sunrail gets built out.  When Volusia backed out of supporting the Deland station D5 almost a week later said the northern part was indefinitely put on hold.

1 hour ago, jrs2 said:

Is the OUC Spur still the only and/or preferred track and/or easement to get to OIA for Sunrail even if Sunshine Corridor never happens?

More or less.  The old HSR corridor would have been the other alignment, but warehouses have been built there since then.

[jrs2]

2 hours ago, codypet said:

I believe that's been put on hold until Sunrail gets built out.  When Volusia backed out of supporting the Deland station D5 almost a week later said the northern part was indefinitely put on hold.

More or less.  The old HSR corridor would have been the other alignment, but warehouses have been built there since then.

that's so funny...you wanna back out of Deland Station?  Fine...no express lanes for YOU!

But, dang...DeLand Station/Amtrak is like in BFE.  I wish they could've improved that spur coming into DT Deland at least most of the way there...I counted  about 3 miles of track which stops short of 17/92 by several blocks.  Maybe not feasible.

Has there been any movement or headway on the OUC Spur talks since Sunshine Corridor was proposed?  If they can create that track (assuming they double track the OUC track with their own) then the door can still be open for BL to use it ala Sunshine Corridor if that gets delayed or canceled- but at least Mainline to MCO gets built...

[codypet]

1 hour ago, jrs2 said:

But, dang...DeLand Station/Amtrak is like in BFE.  I wish they could've improved that spur coming into DT Deland at least most of the way there...I counted  about 3 miles of track which stops short of 17/92 by several blocks.  Maybe not feasible.

Yea its the middle of a big residential area now.   So its not that feasible anymore.

I always felt this site would work though.  Right off Truck 17-92 about halfway to downtown Deland down the spur.

[jrs2]

On 10/5/2023 at 2:13 PM, codypet said:

Yea its the middle of a big residential area now.   So its not that feasible anymore.

I always felt this site would work though.  Right off Truck 17-92 about halfway to downtown Deland down the spur.

if they had a trolley to service that station to downtown that would be nice if the numbers worked

[jrs2]

https://sunrail.com/sunrail-technical-advisory-committee-meeting-october-11-2023/

[jrs2]

https://www.wftv.com/news/local/why-brightlinesunrail-sunshine-corridor-will-cost-over-2b/YD2ST3UJ3ZFGHE4ZVUAZLWBRCM/

[gibby]

On 10/5/2023 at 2:13 PM, codypet said:

Yea its the middle of a big residential area now.   So its not that feasible anymore.

I always felt this site would work though.  Right off Truck 17-92 about halfway to downtown Deland down the spur.

It actually goes several blocks east of here but not quite far enough.  It doesn't seem impossible to get it to the corner of Ohio and Florida but certainly tough.  The biggest obstacle appears to be the church.  Ohio and Florida would put it right between Stetson and downtown.

[Ivanhoe]

An East-West Sunrail, preferably light rail, is badly needed (a terminus at UCF). Absolutely no discussion about this type of expansion which doesn’t inspire hope that many potential areas can redevelop into urban nodes will ever happen.

A number of routes could be considered.  Certainly a focus on running trains (likely elevated) right down Colonial with an eventually turn to get over to UCF. 
 

Then dust off those old light rail plans from the 90s and run a train right down the spine of the city to the attractions area to connect with the eventual Brightline / Sunrail corridor.

[codypet]

18 hours ago, gibby said:

It actually goes several blocks east of here but not quite far enough.  It doesn't seem impossible to get it to the corner of Ohio and Florida but certainly tough.  The biggest obstacle appears to be the church.  Ohio and Florida would put it right between Stetson and downtown.

Yea it does, which is why I mentioned it being halfway to downtown Deland.  As a Sunrail station site, this it the closest feasible location IMO.  A large swath of industrial/commercial land that can be converted to a Sunrail station without drawing the ire of all the residents on the west side of town from taking a seldom used spur and turning it to semi hourly service.   You have to think about the roadway network to the station.  East of there, there isn't a major roadway that can support the traffic that station would bring.  It would be a very tough sell given the density immediately east of there.  The site would literally be the edge of town.  Much better than where its proposed (Way west on this screenshot)  I don't know if that spur may also be owned by a short line RR and that's why Sunrail isn't using it, but IIRC there had been sightings of Sunrail on that line.

[dcluley98]

I Don't know who needs to hear this, but the Sunshine Corridor would be a Multiplier Game-changer. 

A reliable, frequent, and plannable connection from the airport to the convention center/idrive area as well as downtown would solve so many problems and multiply upon itself for benefits. 

Having come from a nightmare travel scenario for a globally prominent tradeshow, this could attract the best companies in the world to come to and invest in Orlando. 

Combine that with the connectivity to the fast-growing Miami/SFL area, and it is cooking. 

 

Sunshine Corridor, people. . . Sunshine Corridor. 

Edited October 13, 2023 by dcluley98

[Uncommon]

23 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

I Don't know who needs to hear this, but the Sunshine Corridor would be a Multiplier Game-changer. 

A reliable, frequent, and plannable connection from the airport to the convention center/idrive area as well as downtown would solve so many problems and multiply upon itself for benefits. 

Having come from a nightmare travel scenario for a globally prominent tradeshow, this could attract the best companies in the world to come to and invest in Orlando. 

Combine that with the connectivity to the fast-growing Miami/SFL area, and it is cooking. 

 

Sunshine Corridor, people. . . Sunshine Corridor. 

True, but if it comes to fruition -- and that is a big if, although I do expect it to -- we're talking 10-15 years away from today or so. I wonder if I'll even care by that point or if I'll even be in Orlando.

[dcluley98]

I might wander and come back. If they do it right. 

[jrs2]

On 10/13/2023 at 6:35 PM, dcluley98 said:

I Don't know who needs to hear this, but the Sunshine Corridor would be a Multiplier Game-changer. 

A reliable, frequent, and plannable connection from the airport to the convention center/idrive area as well as downtown would solve so many problems and multiply upon itself for benefits. 

Having come from a nightmare travel scenario for a globally prominent tradeshow, this could attract the best companies in the world to come to and invest in Orlando. 

Combine that with the connectivity to the fast-growing Miami/SFL area, and it is cooking. 

 

Sunshine Corridor, people. . . Sunshine Corridor. 

I would say they should have started this right after Sunrail opened its second phase. But, no one really knew much about Brightline and Universal wasn't even thinking about converting WetnWild yet. This was like a knee jerk reaction to Brightline Phase 2 towards Disney and Universal's new focus near the OCCC and getting more "involved." Too bad, because it's been ten years since Sunrail opened.  Now, we gotta wait ten more.

[jliv]

On 10/10/2023 at 12:15 AM, Ivanhoe said:

An East-West Sunrail, preferably light rail, is badly needed (a terminus at UCF). Absolutely no discussion about this type of expansion which doesn’t inspire hope that many potential areas can redevelop into urban nodes will ever happen.

A number of routes could be considered.  Certainly a focus on running trains (likely elevated) right down Colonial with an eventually turn to get over to UCF. 
 

Then dust off those old light rail plans from the 90s and run a train right down the spine of the city to the attractions area to connect with the eventual Brightline / Sunrail corridor.

There was an alternative options analysis done a few years back for an East-West transit corridor, and light rail was one of the options considered.  The finding was BRT in mixed traffic with quick loading stops was the most cost-effective, considering the estimated ridership and cost per passenger.  You probably won’t see rail along SR 50 without some form of voter mandate.

[codypet]

https://www.wftv.com/news/local/fdot-releases-new-details-about-proposed-sunrail-extension-polk-county/RGJ6D23WQRHBZA46PRO23NYMIA/

Did we bury the lead on this?  This is the first official confirmation I'm seeing on this.

[WAJAS]

3 hours ago, codypet said:

https://www.wftv.com/news/local/fdot-releases-new-details-about-proposed-sunrail-extension-polk-county/RGJ6D23WQRHBZA46PRO23NYMIA/

Did we bury the lead on this?  This is the first official confirmation I'm seeing on this.

Polk County residents have had meetings and surveys regarding it for the past couple years. Glad to see there's some motion on it.

[cubanbread]

I'm not as up to speed as you guys so you may have already known this but while reading about the possible extension into Lakeland I also saw an interview with someone from FDOT where he spoke about how they have a tentative plan to expand to Daytona as well. The interview was only from 2021.
https://www.news-journalonline.com/videos/business/travel/2021/10/15/watch-fdot-official-talks-possibly-extending-sunrail-line-daytona-airport/8467803002/

If Duval and St. Johns pull off their proposed commuter line and Sunrail gets to Daytona, the chances of a Daytona to Jacksonville extension increase substantially. 

Also, Sunrail to Lakeland is going to start more serious conversations on extensions to Plant City, Brandon, and Tampa.  
If you've never been, Plant City has great bones. It could easily be another DeLand .  Brandon sucks and will always suck but its a prominent suburb and it would be nearly impossible that it wouldn't get a stop. 

[jrs2]

1 hour ago, cubanbread said:

I'm not as up to speed as you guys so you may have already known this but while reading about the possible extension into Lakeland I also saw an interview with someone from FDOT where he spoke about how they have a tentative plan to expand to Daytona as well. The interview was only from 2021.
https://www.news-journalonline.com/videos/business/travel/2021/10/15/watch-fdot-official-talks-possibly-extending-sunrail-line-daytona-airport/8467803002/

If Duval and St. Johns pull off their proposed commuter line and Sunrail gets to Daytona, the chances of a Daytona to Jacksonville extension increase substantially. 

Also, Sunrail to Lakeland is going to start more serious conversations on extensions to Plant City, Brandon, and Tampa.  
If you've never been, Plant City has great bones. It could easily be another DeLand .  Brandon sucks and will always suck but its a prominent suburb and it would be nearly impossible that it wouldn't get a stop. 

I personally can't see them expanding into Daytona only because they would have to build track to do so.  Up until now, they have been upgrading an existing track/easement for double tracking.  Expanding into Polk works because the track is already there from what I see.  Lakeland is far, but Sunrail could really benefit Polk as well within Polk between Lakeland and Haines City...as well as commuters into Orlando...

At that point, it's not that far into Plant City nor Brandon and then into Tampa...

[Ivanhoe]

I don’t really see the futility of an extension to Daytona over more regional extensions like the OBX to Apopka or south to Lakeland.