SunRail

[codypet]

Interesting that they call the Brightline alignment the Sunshine Corridor East.  I guess then the Sunshine corridor team is effectively Brightline's lobbying?

[jrs2]

19 hours ago, codypet said:

Interesting that they call the Brightline alignment the Sunshine Corridor East.  I guess then the Sunshine corridor team is effectively Brightline's lobbying?

Hmmm. I think they are segmenting it for legal/political purposes.  They are probably going to try to get money for Sunshine Corridor Central (to WDW), and get that up and running, and then ask for money for SC West to Tampa.  That's my Vegas odds prediction...

[aent]

Sunshine Corridor was technically from Universal's marketing against the Disney route. I would guess the rebranding is to make it seem like Sunrail has the potential to go a longer distance as they ask the feds for money for the Central section only. They most definitely did not ask for money for "Sunshine Corridor East" and they previously said they would not ask for money for "Sunshine Corridor West". They just said "Sunshine Corridor Central" was not feasible, and wanted to go along 417 instead if they did not get public money.

[dcluley98]

Oh it's all about money and perception. 

 

Latest bond funding for Brightline did not have any mention of "Sunshine" corridor.   They are packaging it in sections to target Federal Grant money. 

 

The section toward Disney Springs they are holding over Disney as "To be investigated/Completed" later on after the section to Universal/CCCC is complete. Playing chicken with Disney in hopes that they may contribute later on. 

[codypet]

11 hours ago, aent said:

Sunshine Corridor was technically from Universal's marketing against the Disney route. I would guess the rebranding is to make it seem like Sunrail has the potential to go a longer distance as they ask the feds for money for the Central section only. They most definitely did not ask for money for "Sunshine Corridor East" and they previously said they would not ask for money for "Sunshine Corridor West". They just said "Sunshine Corridor Central" was not feasible, and wanted to go along 417 instead if they did not get public money.

If that's the case, they're wrong unless they plan on using different Sunrail trains to go E-W vs N-S.  The current Sunrail trains wouldn't fit on Brightline's platforms without retrofit, and they definitely wouldn't clear the taxiway bridges, the tunnel under Goldenrod, or the glide path for the eastern runway.  

[jrs2]

3 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

Oh it's all about money and perception. 

 

Latest bond funding for Brightline did not have any mention of "Sunshine" corridor.   They are packaging it in sections to target Federal Grant money. 

 

The section toward Disney Springs they are holding over Disney as "To be investigated/Completed" later on after the section to Universal/CCCC is complete. Playing chicken with Disney in hopes that they may contribute later on. 

I really wondered about that...  get that segment working and then figure out WDW later. It really didn't seem that practical to put a station just south of Marriott World Center and then bus people down 536 to Diz Sprgs.

Is the section to the OCCC something BL would be interested in for the meantime?  Because if they do that segment first, that will take a few years to complete and then a few more to get to WDW.  I'm assuming BL would be interested in more ridership to OCCC/Epic U from OIA, but said BL train would still dock at OIA.  Maybe that BL train would just act as an Orlando circulator?  In other words, would BL be interested in a route from OIA to I-Drive for a few years with nothing more? or would there be a conflict with Sunrail for local OIA to I-Drive ridership? @codypet   @aent

[aent]

8 hours ago, codypet said:

If that's the case, they're wrong unless they plan on using different Sunrail trains to go E-W vs N-S.  The current Sunrail trains wouldn't fit on Brightline's platforms without retrofit, and they definitely wouldn't clear the taxiway bridges, the tunnel under Goldenrod, or the glide path for the eastern runway.  

Brightline has been clear they will not share platforms. They even built accommodations for a future, separate commuter rail service in at least 3 of the South Florida stations so far. For example, the new Aventura station is designed so if commuter rail comes, the bridge to the tracks could have a wall installed down the middle of it, and there is an extra elevator shaft and stairwell in the building that would be repurposed for the commuter rail service, and they already built 2 different height platforms:

https://www.google.com/maps/@25.9581226,-80.147083,3a,66.7y,325.29h,103.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqWn_OOHcdYvtaL4opJm_vQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 

7 hours ago, jrs2 said:

I really wondered about that...  get that segment working and then figure out WDW later. It really didn't seem that practical to put a station just south of Marriott World Center and then bus people down 536 to Diz Sprgs.

Is the section to the OCCC something BL would be interested in for the meantime?  Because if they do that segment first, that will take a few years to complete and then a few more to get to WDW.  I'm assuming BL would be interested in more ridership to OCCC/Epic U from OIA, but said BL train would still dock at OIA.  Maybe that BL train would just act as an Orlando circulator?  In other words, would BL be interested in a route from OIA to I-Drive for a few years with nothing more? or would there be a conflict with Sunrail for local OIA to I-Drive ridership? @codypet   @aent

I doubt there would be a conflict, they're targeting a different market, and Brightline would appreciate any high volume stop without requiring transfers. OCCC/Universal is clearly going to provide plenty of demand. Unfortunately, Sunrail is also unlikely to operate on weekends and has multiple hours between non-peak services, so Brightline will be a "premium" option for those who want faster, better service, and Sunrail will be a "cheap" option for those who don't care about waiting, no amenities, etc.

[jrs2]

On 3/24/2023 at 8:47 PM, aent said:

Brightline has been clear they will not share platforms. They even built accommodations for a future, separate commuter rail service in at least 3 of the South Florida stations so far. For example, the new Aventura station is designed so if commuter rail comes, the bridge to the tracks could have a wall installed down the middle of it, and there is an extra elevator shaft and stairwell in the building that would be repurposed for the commuter rail service, and they already built 2 different height platforms:

https://www.google.com/maps/@25.9581226,-80.147083,3a,66.7y,325.29h,103.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqWn_OOHcdYvtaL4opJm_vQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 

I doubt there would be a conflict, they're targeting a different market, and Brightline would appreciate any high volume stop without requiring transfers. OCCC/Universal is clearly going to provide plenty of demand. Unfortunately, Sunrail is also unlikely to operate on weekends and has multiple hours between non-peak services, so Brightline will be a "premium" option for those who want faster, better service, and Sunrail will be a "cheap" option for those who don't care about waiting, no amenities, etc.

so do you think that would complicate things for the I-Drive station, i.e., make it larger to accommodate different height platforms for both systems? 

[aent]

7 hours ago, jrs2 said:

so do you think that would complicate things for the I-Drive station, i.e., make it larger to accommodate different height platforms for both systems? 

I don't think so, the boca station has 10x less land and has separate platforms without issues

[shardoon]

Disney is so short sited here. Building a station near Disney Springs and having a major busing transportation center would be great for them. They can even maybe partially fund a Disney express train so their precious tourists to not see the lights of the rest of Orlando. Near disney Springs, the train station can obviously be a mjor bussing hub to the rest of the hotels and they maybe can expand the sky liner to that location as well. Seems like a win win to streamline tourists to their property. 

[jrs2]

2 hours ago, shardoon said:

Disney is so short sited here. Building a station near Disney Springs and having a major busing transportation center would be great for them. They can even maybe partially fund a Disney express train so their precious tourists to not see the lights of the rest of Orlando. Near disney Springs, the train station can obviously be a mjor bussing hub to the rest of the hotels and they maybe can expand the sky liner to that location as well. Seems like a win win to streamline tourists to their property. 

not to do Disney's bidding for them, but...if they allowed a station at one of those garages and built a nice integrated station with wow factor, I guarantee you, if the I-Drive station was, eh, and required too much walking and/or bussing b/c of a lack of direct integration, I think people would be like...screw that...let's just go to Disney instead b/c they have their act together better than the other guys.

[IAmFloridaBorn]

On 3/28/2023 at 11:47 AM, jrs2 said:

not to do Disney's bidding for them, but...if they allowed a station at one of those garages and built a nice integrated station with wow factor, I guarantee you, if the I-Drive station was, eh, and required too much walking and/or bussing b/c of a lack of direct integration, I think people would be like...screw that...let's just go to Disney instead b/c they have their act together better than the other guys.

You're probably right. I'm always hoping now with epic universe Universal can build a rail that shadows universal boulevard or Kirkland that will transport guests between the two properties and connect with this new station.

[jrs2]

2 hours ago, IAmFloridaBorn said:

You're probably right. I'm always hoping now with epic universe Universal can build a rail that shadows universal boulevard or Kirkland that will transport guests between the two properties and connect with this new station.

yep. They really need a Circulator.  the proposed station will literally be 1 mile from the edge of Epic U property up the Kirkman Road Extension, and about 2/3 mile from the closest edge of the N/S Bldg.

Edited March 29, 2023 by jrs2

[jrs2]

This is from March 16:

https://www.masstransitmag.com/rail/news/53028620/fl-seminole-commissioners-back-study-to-expand-sunrail-brightline

[prahaboheme]

20 hours ago, jrs2 said:

This is from March 16:

https://www.masstransitmag.com/rail/news/53028620/fl-seminole-commissioners-back-study-to-expand-sunrail-brightline

I wonder if the Sunshine Corridor stations (OCCC, I-Drive) will be designed in the aesthetic of Sunrail or Brightline (Brightline, I presume, as those tracks will ultimately go on to Tampa).  Unless, they treat these shared stations as separate entities from either party and design individual station concepts such as the airport.

[jrs2]

On 4/12/2023 at 11:32 AM, prahaboheme said:

I wonder if the Sunshine Corridor stations (OCCC, I-Drive) will be designed in the aesthetic of Sunrail or Brightline (Brightline, I presume, as those tracks will ultimately go on to Tampa).  Unless, they treat these shared stations as separate entities from either party and design individual station concepts such as the airport.

I would really like to see...somehow... the N/S Building extended to the east (per that expansion proposal it will a bit).  The Sunshine Corridor station will be due south of Hilton Orlando and to the east a little, and, east of the OCCC garage right there.  The Kirkman Road Extension will terminate right there at Destination Pkwy.

So, I augment what I originally wrote about the closest structure to that station.  Looking at it again, the Hilton Orlando Garage, where it terminates at the Tradeshow Drive/Kirkman Road Extension would be that structure (sans the OCCC Garage just to the west.  If they could do something due north of the station with a bridge over Kirkman Extension, and go parallel to Hilton Orlando Garage to the skywalk to N/S Bldg, that would be a direct connect to the OCCC (unless you take an Uber).  The buildings are just way to far.  If they can partner with Hilton Orlando and integrate it with the stop, then people could filter through part of that hotel en route to the OCCC.

But, to integrate it with Epic U, they would need to have a circulator or busses.  If they did that, either could also connect it to the N/S Bldg.  Or, if there was an expansive circulator that connected OCC West and OCC N/S and Epic U and Pointe Orlando and maybe Icon Park, that would be something.  But I have a feeling if there is anything, Universal would have something going along the spine of Kirkman Road from the station north servicing both properties.  I think they'll have that regardless.  It's the other I wonder about...

As for design, I wouldn't mind seeing what they built in Miami/ Ft.L/ WPB.  The MCO design is its own thing that predated BL's designs in SoFla.

[codypet]

1 hour ago, jrs2 said:

I would really like to see...somehow... the N/S Building extended to the east (per that expansion proposal it will a bit).  The Sunshine Corridor station will be due south of Hilton Orlando and to the east a little, and, east of the OCCC garage right there.  The Kirkman Road Extension will terminate right there at Destination Pkwy.

So, I augment what I originally wrote about the closest structure to that station.  Looking at it again, the Hilton Orlando Garage, where it terminates at the Tradeshow Drive/Kirkman Road Extension would be that structure (sans the OCCC Garage just to the west.  If they could do something due north of the station with a bridge over Kirkman Extension, and go parallel to Hilton Orlando Garage to the skywalk to N/S Bldg, that would be a direct connect to the OCCC (unless you take an Uber).  The buildings are just way to far.  If they can partner with Hilton Orlando and integrate it with the stop, then people could filter through part of that hotel en route to the OCCC.

But, to integrate it with Epic U, they would need to have a circulator or busses.  If they did that, either could also connect it to the N/S Bldg.  Or, if there was an expansive circulator that connected OCC West and OCC N/S and Epic U and Pointe Orlando and maybe Icon Park, that would be something.  But I have a feeling if there is anything, Universal would have something going along the spine of Kirkman Road from the station north servicing both properties.  I think they'll have that regardless.  It's the other I wonder about...

As for design, I wouldn't mind seeing what they built in Miami/ Ft.L/ WPB.  The MCO design is its own thing that predated BL's designs in SoFla.

Many I suggest that there's nothing on Earth like a genuine, bona-fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

What'd I say?  Monorail!

What's it called?  Monorail!

[Alleri459]

On 4/13/2023 at 2:57 PM, codypet said:

Many I suggest that there's nothing on Earth like a genuine, bona-fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

What'd I say?  Monorail!

What's it called?  Monorail!

Ooooff, a monorail from current universal to epic u to the station and pointe orlando   

[aent]

14 hours ago, aleonrivera said:

Ooooff, a monorail from current universal to epic u to the station and pointe orlando   

I went to Pointe Orlando for the first time since COVID the other week and was shocked how run down it was. The "renovations" they did a few years back seemed like a huge downgrade to the place.

[jrs2]

DELAND STATION GROUNDBREAKING

https://www.fox35orlando.com/video/1224233

https://www.wesh.com/article/sunrail-deland-station/43963339

https://www.mynews13.com/fl/orlando/news/2023/05/22/sunrail-to-break-ground-on-new-deland-station

https://sunrail.com/phase-2-northern-expansion/

Groundbreaking at Deland station two weeks ago.

How did I/we miss this?

Edited June 6, 2023 by jrs2

[jgardnerucf]

10 hours ago, jrs2 said:

How did I/we miss this?

We didn't, it was self-explanatory 2 weeks ago.

[jrs2]

https://floridapolitics.com/archives/529154-feds-to-add-nearly-16m-in-grant-money-to-support-sunrail-brightline-link/

so this was just released end of last week. they got the grant money for the study.

[prahaboheme]

1 hour ago, jrs2 said:

https://floridapolitics.com/archives/529154-feds-to-add-nearly-16m-in-grant-money-to-support-sunrail-brightline-link/

so this was just released end of last week. they got the grant money for the study.

“The Sunshine Corridor would extend SunRail commuter train service to Orlando International Airport and the Orange County Convention Center, and extend Brightline higher-speed intercity passenger rail service from the airport to Walt Disney World and then on to Tampa from there.”

Am I reading this correctly that Sunrail would not extend to the station planned near Disney at Gaylord? If so this plan is totally flawed — that’s where you get commuters onto the train who want to get to OIA  or downtown from all points W192 into Polk.

[aent]

4 hours ago, jrs2 said:

https://floridapolitics.com/archives/529154-feds-to-add-nearly-16m-in-grant-money-to-support-sunrail-brightline-link/

so this was just released end of last week. they got the grant money for the study.

I think you got the year wrong.

[jrs2]

17 minutes ago, aent said:

I think you got the year wrong.

? I could've sworn the article date was June 1, 2023. 

3 hours ago, prahaboheme said:

“The Sunshine Corridor would extend SunRail commuter train service to Orlando International Airport and the Orange County Convention Center, and extend Brightline higher-speed intercity passenger rail service from the airport to Walt Disney World and then on to Tampa from there.”

Am I reading this correctly that Sunrail would not extend to the station planned near Disney at Gaylord? If so this plan is totally flawed — that’s where you get commuters onto the train who want to get to OIA  or downtown from all points W192 into Polk.

You read it right. Confused me too based on what the plan was ala Sunrail going to WDW as well, unless they misspoke on that early on.