5th & Broadway | 501 Commerce | NMAAM | 34 story apt, 26 story office, + 183,000 sq. ft. of Retail

[captainwjm]

Not a good sign.  Embry probably is the wrong developer - suburban mentality, etc.  But, whomever is the developer, why are we still debating who gets the conference rooms?  Seems to me that this whole shebang has been half-assed from the start with headlines substituting for plans and details.  I'm not optimistic.

[titanhog]

Not a good sign.  Embry probably is the wrong developer - suburban mentality, etc.  But, whomever is the developer, why are we still debating who gets the conference rooms?  Seems to me that this whole shebang has been half-assed from the start with headlines substituting for plans and details.  I'm not optimistic.

Yep.  Starting to get concerned they chose the wrong developer.  I love that last render they gave a few months ago...but I'm not sure they'll ever get it built.

[farm_boy]

Is Embry the wrong developer? Maybe, but not likely. The issues with the project are obviously complicated due to the parties involved, especially the Renaissance hotel. The meeting room space must be a very big issue for the Renaissance - and understandably so. It is hard for me to grasp how complex this project must be.

 

Without a major office tenant, it seems financing would be difficult for the office portion. I would expect that at least one major retailer and/or numerous retailers committed would be needed for funding the the retail portion. But I assume that any residential should be easy to finance at that site, especially apartments.

 

I still think this project doesn't proceed without 1) a sizable office tenant and 2) an agreement with the Renaissance about meeting room space. Bridgestone was a lost opportunity due to timing. Maybe temporary meeting space could be built in the parking garage across the skyway for Renaissance.

[smeagolsfree]

One Franklin Place was a spec building. I don't see an issue if they did a spec at this point. They have a lot of development experience. Also we have no IDea who they are talking to about a anchor tennent. They may already have a couple on board and just waiting to make an announcement.

[Hey_Hey]

Is it just coincidence that it was announced that CHS was reopening their search for a new headquarters building? Hmmmmm.....

[Paramount747]

Is Embry the wrong developer? Maybe, but not likely. The issues with the project are obviously complicated due to the parties involved, especially the Renaissance hotel. The meeting room space must be a very big issue for the Renaissance - and understandably so. It is hard for me to grasp how complex this project must be.

 

Without a major office tenant, it seems financing would be difficult for the office portion. I would expect that at least one major retailer and/or numerous retailers committed would be needed for funding the the retail portion. But I assume that any residential should be easy to finance at that site, especially apartments.

 

I still think this project doesn't proceed without 1) a sizable office tenant and 2) an agreement with the Renaissance about meeting room space. Bridgestone was a lost opportunity due to timing. Maybe temporary meeting space could be built in the parking garage across the skyway for Renaissance.

I was at the Ren from 2003-2007 before I transferred to the Sheraton. The Ren was very dependent on the NCC ballroom space. That was the only space they and for large group meetings, and social functions. They had some banquets for 1000 people in that space. If that is gone, they are screwed.

 

The city should have allowed Marriott to take over this entire space years ago. When I was there, Bill Marriott wanted to build a 12 story luxury suite tower on top and take over the convention center when the new one was completed. They did the same thing in Mobile Alabama. When Mobile built their new convention center. Marriott/Renaissance took over the existing convention center.

Edited February 23, 2015 by Paramount747

[Paramount747]

Is Embry the wrong developer? Maybe, but not likely. The issues with the project are obviously complicated due to the parties involved, especially the Renaissance hotel. The meeting room space must be a very big issue for the Renaissance - and understandably so. It is hard for me to grasp how complex this project must be.

 

Without a major office tenant, it seems financing would be difficult for the office portion. I would expect that at least one major retailer and/or numerous retailers committed would be needed for funding the the retail portion. But I assume that any residential should be easy to finance at that site, especially apartments.

 

I still think this project doesn't proceed without 1) a sizable office tenant and 2) an agreement with the Renaissance about meeting room space. Bridgestone was a lost opportunity due to timing. Maybe temporary meeting space could be built in the parking garage across the skyway for Renaissance.

The skyway had been discussed when I was there, including adding floors to the garage and building meeting space on the two empty lots on Commerce Street.

[Guest]

With all the negativity won't everyone be pleasantly surprised when it actually moves ahead. Any "new" developer will run into the same complications as this current team. The worst news is that if a new developer was chosen they would have to start the whole process over and delay this from happening another year or two.

[farm_boy]

I honestly think the right man for the job is in control. This project is so complex and has so many parties involved plus being in such a high profile location. I doubt any out-of-town developer would commit to and deliver this project.

[Guest]

Nice article is the business journal today:

http://m.bizjournals.com/nashville/print-edition/2015/03/13/the-quietest-block-on-broadway-why-pat-emery-had.html?ana=sm_nsh_ucp73&b=1426185123%5E16796041&r=full

[MidTenn1]

Nice article is the business journal today:

http://m.bizjournals.com/nashville/print-edition/2015/03/13/the-quietest-block-on-broadway-why-pat-emery-had.html?ana=sm_nsh_ucp73&b=1426185123%5E16796041&r=full

 

 

Mayor Karl Dean and city leaders entrusted Emery, known for turning rural Cool Springs into a magnet for corporate relocations, to bring them this far. It's taken Emery 15 months to reach the final negotiations on a comprehensive agreement — with five other parties and 15 lawyers at the table — outlining how the project will come together.

That agreement is expected to be announced later this month, just before Emery's exclusive rights to the site expire. That timing means Metro Council could finish vetting the deal in May, which would position the start of construction to be either a capstone, or unfinished business, for Dean when his term ends this fall.

[titanhog]

"If Emery and OliverMcMillan can reach agreement with the hotel, that's the best of all worlds. If not, I'm comfortable that this is still a great development," Riebeling said.

 

 

So, is Riebeling saying there's a chance they will have to leave a portion of the old convention center standing for Renaissance if they don't come to an agreement...and then change the design to fit around that portion?

Edited March 14, 2015 by titanhog

[Hey_Hey]

I think this definitely raises the question of how wise it was for the city to offer a $1 lease to Renaissance in exchange for the $20 million in improvements.  It looks like they could very easily hold this entire thing up. I would suspect, however, that they would be huge beneficiaries of a redeveloped convention center site once it is completed. Maybe that will motivate them.

[BnaBreaker]

Since Emery is offering to include new meeting space in his plans that would belong to the hotel, it sounds to me like the only real hang up now is how much Renaissance Hotel will be compensated for perceived losses of it's current meeting space during the construction of the project.  Surely if that is really all that is left to iron out, they can come to some sort of agreement.  As was already pointed out, it seems like a no-brainer for Renaissance to support this development. 

[titanhog]

So...what structure would the new meeting space be located in?  Would it be inside the office tower?  A stand alone structure attached to Renaissance for their use only?  Something else?

[Guest]

I think this definitely raises the question of how wise it was for the city to offer a $1 lease to Renaissance in exchange for the $20 million in improvements. It looks like they could very easily hold this entire thing up. I would suspect, however, that they would be huge beneficiaries of a redeveloped convention center site once it is completed. Maybe that will motivate them.

And the fact that they signed a long term lease with them right before putting this thing out to RFP. Not smart. Our city made this harder than it needed it to be and it was already difficult.

The article made it pretty clear. They have held it up already. This thing would be under construction with Bridgestone at the Convo site rather in SoBro if the Hotel would have been cooperative. Perhaps that is silver lining. Instead of Bridgestone and the Convention Center being one project Nashville will likely get both.

Since Emery is offering to include new meeting space in his plans that would belong to the hotel, it sounds to me like the only real hang up now is how much Renaissance Hotel will be compensated for perceived losses of it's current meeting space during the construction of the project. Surely if that is really all that is left to iron out, they can come to some sort of agreement. As was already pointed out, it seems like a no-brainer for Renaissance to support this development.

Seems like a no brainier. That is the problem with REITs as a whole. They are motivated to do improvements to keep up cash flow, but totally unmotivated to shut down for development no matter the long term view.

So, is Riebeling saying there's a chance they will have to leave a portion of the old convention center standing for Renaissance if they don't come to an agreement...and then change the design to fit around that portion?

Yes. That is the reality. And if it happens it isn't the developer that is to blame as so often happens.

If Commerce doesn't get a fresh face on that block with this project it never will.

[MLBrumby]

I have noticed that everything Riebeling is associated with seems to experience major cost impacts from his failure to take a long term view.  If you'll remember, the new convention center experienced land ownership problems where MDHA ended up having to pay far more for slivers of land because the land could have been bought just a couple of years earlier, but developers slipped in and bought it after the plans for the CC were announced.  And Rolling Mill Hill had serious red ink because of a failure to vet the first developers, who subsequently went bankrupt.  Then going back to the late nineties (I remember this because my first big client was based in Nashville) there were RFPs issued for the property between 2nd and 3rd at Demonbreun, and the type of land use was not specified.  So the only valid RFP they received was for a motel type of use.  

[UTgrad09]

Rich Riebeling is a snake.

[titanhog]

It's going to be pretty disappointing if they have to keep a portion of the old cc to satisfy Renaissance.

[smeagolsfree]

I don't think it will be possible to leave the ball rooms for the hotel as they sit atop the old CC I think, but not 100% sure about that. The big mistake was Metro doing a 30 year lease for a dollar a year with the hotel. That was insanely stupid on the part of Metro and ever who put that agreement together should be sacked for sure.

Ofcoarse we all know Metro, the State, and the Federal government are not real good at making smart decisions, so why we we expect anything different.

[titanhog]

Sounds to me like Metro is going to have to build Renaissance it's own "convention center" at tax pay expense to be able to construct the rest of this development...and Renaissance can hold us hostage until we agree.

[UTgrad09]

Nice article is the business journal today:

http://m.bizjournals.com/nashville/print-edition/2015/03/13/the-quietest-block-on-broadway-why-pat-emery-had.html?ana=sm_nsh_ucp73&b=1426185123%5E16796041&r=full

 

 

 

It's taken Emery 15 months to reach the final negotiations on a comprehensive agreement — with five other parties and 15 lawyers at the table — outlining how the project will come together.

 

The only good outcome involving 15 lawyers in the same room is structural failure.

 

This will A) end up costing Metro more money via incentives or B) end up costing Metro more money because the deal falls through and nothing gets developed (until 2029 or so).

[Paramount747]

The only good outcome involving 15 lawyers in the same room is structural failure.

 

This will A) end up costing Metro more money via incentives or B) end up costing Metro more money because the deal falls through and nothing gets developed (until 2029 or so).

Metro will end up selling this to Marriott and letting them privately develop it as was the plan almost 10 years ago. Pat Emery needs to stay in the suburbs where he belongs. He has no history or experience building in the CBD. The CBD is totally different from the car friendly suburbs. This has been a waste of time from the beginning when the Medical Mart failed. Metro does not need to be in the commercial development business. Sell it, and let a private developer have it. This Pat Emery design is too bold like the Turnberry Developent. This is still Nashville, not Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, NYC, Chicago etc… Nashville is still in the stage of simple and sensible development.

 

It's time to end this debacle and sell it to someone who knows what they are doing.

[NashRugger]

^ If they went that route, I'd hope Oliver McMillan would stay on board and help deliver an incredible product.

 

That said, something is telling me that Emery may be taking the backseat with Oliver McMillan preparing to step in the driver's seat for this because they have an incredibly strong and desirable track record.

Edited March 20, 2015 by NashRugger

[smeagolsfree]

Metro will end up selling this to Marriott and letting them privately develop it as was the plan almost 10 years ago. Pat Emery needs to stay in the suburbs where he belongs. He has no history or experience building in the CBD. The CBD is totally different from the car friendly suburbs. This has been a waste of time from the beginning when the Medical Mart failed. Metro does not need to be in the commercial development business. Sell it, and let a private developer have it. This Pat Emery design is too bold like the Turnberry Developent. This is still Nashville, not Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, NYC, Chicago etc… Nashville is still in the stage of simple and sensible development.

 

It's time to end this debacle and sell it to someone who knows what they are doing.

I will say that you will be proved wrong on this one John. No offense, but Emory will probably pull it off.