Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[csweet]

Has anyone seen these plans before?

https://www.rsandh.com/projects/charlotte-douglas-international-airport/

Looks like B,C, and E would be removed. Why would CLT expand B and C to eventually remove completely?

[CLT2014]

27 minutes ago, csweet said:

Has anyone seen these plans before?

https://www.rsandh.com/projects/charlotte-douglas-international-airport/

Looks like B,C, and E would be removed. Why would CLT expand B and C to eventually remove completely?

Looks like an architecture firm showing off the most impressive design they did even if it didn't get selected for implementation. These websites are for marketing the breadth of their work to other potential clients and this is probably what they were most excited about showing off. When you read the actual content of the work they did selected for implementation, I get why they didn't pick photos for those. 

[CltFlyer]

Apparently this draft is from back in May 2023.

https://downloads.ctfassets.net/jaw4bomip9l3/XFuFUxxOVJWw4Zeq4esBO/e4642102a60381008df3eea2e92b4ff8/Sheet-3__ALP_Future.pdf

Looks like the demolition of E, Small extension of D,  Satellite concourse, and 5th runway are still in the masterplan

 

 

 

 

On another note.  Volaris is adding a third weekly flight to Guadalajara, Mexico starting in April.

 

 

[teeg]

6 hours ago, csweet said:

Has anyone seen these plans before?

https://www.rsandh.com/projects/charlotte-douglas-international-airport/

Looks like B,C, and E would be removed. Why would CLT expand B and C to eventually remove completely?

LKN704 spotted this back in October: https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/107-charlotte-douglas-airport-clt-expansion/page/406/#comment-1897595

Miesian Corners posted the next day, "Somebody posted something they weren't supposed to. The above rendering and text regarding the terminal are now gone from the RS&H website." :https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/107-charlotte-douglas-airport-clt-expansion/?do=findComment&comment=1897808

Edited January 11 by teeg
Corrected URL for second link

[CLT2014]

A judge has blocked the JetBlue - Spirit merger and agreed with the DOJ. While Spirit's profitability / viability could be a go forward concern, in the meantime this protects Spirit's relatively good schedule at CLT and nonstop service to 11 destinations that is vital pricing pressure on AA on some routes (LAX, FLL, LAS, et..).

I'd consider this a big win for CLT based travelers as JetBlue largely planned to dismantle Spirit's point to point routes and move the aircraft to their hubs (ending flights like CLT - LAX). JetBlue's management team has also historically struggled in CLT and can't figure it out (just two flights to Boston) and would have likely applied the same strategy with the consolidated airline.

Edited January 17 by CLT2014

[TCLT]

13 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

A judge has blocked the JetBlue - Spirit merger and agreed with the DOJ. While Spirit's profitability / viability could be a go forward concern, in the meantime this protects Spirit's relatively good schedule at CLT and nonstop service to 11 destinations that is vital pricing pressure on AA on some routes (LAX, FLL, LAS, et..).

I'd consider this a big win for CLT based travelers as JetBlue largely planned to dismantle Spirit's point to point routes and move the aircraft to their hubs (ending flights like CLT - LAX). JetBlue's management team has also historically struggled in CLT and can't figure it out (just two flights to Boston) and would have likely applied the same strategy with the consolidated airline.

Spirit's viability may be the bigger concern depending on who you ask.

Spirit Airlines finds itself with few options after judge blocks deal with JetBlue | Reuters

Quote

Helane Becker, airline analyst at TD Cowen, said Spirit is likely to look for another buyer, but that a more likely scenario is a Chapter 11 filing, followed by a liquidation. She said the recent capital raise has given the company funds to self-finance a potential Chapter 11 filing.

 

[KJHburg]

wish we had a hotel opening at CLT.  What is the plans or are they any now days?  Our hub would support this for sure with cancellations and people wanting to be at the airport to catch early flights.

Nashville Airport to Debut 1st On-Site Hotel (connectcre.com)

[49er]

I appreciate the sub $100 flights to Florida and other places on Spirit. Frontier or Spirit are often less than $200 to vegas. The last time I flew there AA was $600.  It's great when you are paying for 4 or 5 tickets for a family as the savings add up fast. AA will just further price gouge locals at CLT if they go away. 

[RANYC]

8 hours ago, KJHburg said:

wish we had a hotel opening at CLT.  What is the plans or are they any now days?  Our hub would support this for sure with cancellations and people wanting to be at the airport to catch early flights.

Nashville Airport to Debut 1st On-Site Hotel (connectcre.com)

Is that the plan for the property rezoned recently at Wilkinson & Josh Birmingham?

[CLT Development]

3 hours ago, RANYC said:

Is that the plan for the property rezoned recently at Wilkinson & Josh Birmingham?

That's part of Destination CLT, at least I think so. I pushed back at planning commission because they literally have published master plans for this space, but yet did a conventional rezoning.

[gman430]

Frontier Airlines expansion for CLT: 
 

• Charlotte (CLT) to Buffalo (BUF)

• Charlotte (CLT) to Baltimore (BWI)

• Charlotte (CLT) to Houston (IAH)

• Charlotte (CLT) to New York (LGA)

• Charlotte (CLT) to Chicago (ORD)

• Charlotte (CLT) to Dallas (DFW)

• Charlotte (CLT) to San Juan (SJU)

 

Edited January 23 by gman430

[LKN704]

1 hour ago, gman430 said:

Frontier Airlines expansion for CLT: 
 

• Charlotte (CLT) to Buffalo (BUF)

• Charlotte (CLT) to Baltimore (BWI)

• Charlotte (CLT) to Houston (IAH)

• Charlotte (CLT) to New York (LGA)

• Charlotte (CLT) to Chicago (ORD)

• Charlotte (CLT) to Dallas (DFW)

 

They are also launching CLT-SJU. 

Here are the destinations you can fly to nonstop from CLT in the Americas outside of AA:

Edited January 23 by LKN704

[CLT2014]

11 hours ago, gman430 said:

Frontier Airlines expansion for CLT: 
 

• Charlotte (CLT) to Buffalo (BUF)

• Charlotte (CLT) to Baltimore (BWI)

• Charlotte (CLT) to Houston (IAH)

• Charlotte (CLT) to New York (LGA)

• Charlotte (CLT) to Chicago (ORD)

• Charlotte (CLT) to Dallas (DFW)

• Charlotte (CLT) to San Juan (SJU)

 

Will be interesting to see how the extra competition impacts pricing on these routes. Some of these routes already showed price decreases for local travelers when Spirit entered and it should get even better with Frontier joining those routes. Assuming Frontier keeps their current routes also, they'll have 13 destinations from CLT (though frequency on some routes is less than daily). 

Buffalo: AA and Frontier
Baltimore: AA, Frontier, and Southwest
Houston (both airports): AA, Frontier, Southwest, United
New York LGA: AA, Delta, Frontier, Spirit
Chicago (both airports): AA, Frontier, Southwest, Spirit, United
Dallas (both airports): AA, Frontier, Southwest, Spirit
San Juan: AA and Frontier
 

[InSouthPark]

16 hours ago, gman430 said:

Frontier Airlines expansion for CLT: 
 

• Charlotte (CLT) to Buffalo (BUF)

• Charlotte (CLT) to Baltimore (BWI)

• Charlotte (CLT) to Houston (IAH)

• Charlotte (CLT) to New York (LGA)

• Charlotte (CLT) to Chicago (ORD)

• Charlotte (CLT) to Dallas (DFW)

• Charlotte (CLT) to San Juan (SJU)

 

Just booked a flight to Houston in late April for $158 on Frontier.  For all the competition to Houston, I could rarely ever find a cheap long weekend flight.  Southwest always had "deals" but I could never catch a good one.  Same schedule for these flights on AA was $378.  Its just a long weekend so I just taking a small backpack. 

[kermit]

Sounds like any airport hotel (potentially two) will be at the "Destination District" at Wilkinson. The RFP for the district was announced today (ish). No explicit mention of a people mover connection, but I would hope it is included here:

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2024/01/23/clt-douglas-international-airport-development-land.html

Edited January 24 by kermit

[KJHburg]

Here is a little more details from the above article:
 

""Included in the 90 acres are two distinct areas within the Destination District. One is the central area, about 39 acres at Wilkinson Boulevard and North Josh Birmingham Parkway. The central area is being eyed for hotel, restaurant and convenience retail development. The airport's conceptual site plan for the area calls for two hotels and nine food and beverage locations, including a brewery.""  the rest of the area is more industrial and warehouse oriented.  

""CLT has used its land holdings to spur economic development in recent years. Amazon.com Inc.'s massive robotics fulfillment center — named CLT4 — was developed on airport-owned land. Back in late 2021, Charlotte City Council approved a ground lease to Crow Holdings Development to pave the way for a large industrial facility leased by Best Buy Co. Inc.""

[BarrenLucidity]

1 hour ago, KJHburg said:

Here is a little more details from the above article:
 

""Included in the 90 acres are two distinct areas within the Destination District. One is the central area, about 39 acres at Wilkinson Boulevard and North Josh Birmingham Parkway. The central area is being eyed for hotel, restaurant and convenience retail development. The airport's conceptual site plan for the area calls for two hotels and nine food and beverage locations, including a brewery.""  the rest of the area is more industrial and warehouse oriented.  

""CLT has used its land holdings to spur economic development in recent years. Amazon.com Inc.'s massive robotics fulfillment center — named CLT4 — was developed on airport-owned land. Back in late 2021, Charlotte City Council approved a ground lease to Crow Holdings Development to pave the way for a large industrial facility leased by Best Buy Co. Inc.""

They should really identify a method to eliminate that light in favor of continuous traffic flow from the interstates like ORD or PHL. 

[tozmervo]

Just who is Josh Birmingham, anyway? (I know I'm asking in the right place)

[CLT2014]

25 minutes ago, tozmervo said:

Just who is Josh Birmingham, anyway? (I know I'm asking in the right place)

Airport manager for 17 years, taking over in 1971 and preparing CLT for the rapid acceleration of the jet age + deregulation of airlines. He is responsible for the construction of the first 10,000 foot parallel runway and going from a 14 gate terminal to 60 gates, building many of the terminal facilities still in use today, and the evolution to a Piedmont hub. He also dealt with a LOT of the major controversies during the 1970's over noise in the growing jet age and multiple lawsuits against the airport in a battle between the communities in the flight path most impacted by noise and the other areas of the city that aspired to have a more modern airport (but were not impacted as much by noise). 

Edited January 24 by CLT2014

[videtur quam contuor]

R. C. Birmingham was a longtime city administrator, first in Public Works then the airport. His tenure as airport head included the most momentous events of our age of flight for Charlotte. The dramatic growth of air travel, the deregulation and later commodification of airlines, the Eastern crash that killed 69 people in the early 70's, the bond referenda for a new airport and then the beginning of that new age where we find ourselves today. We are often admonished here for our eagerness to build highways but he was a tireless force to build highways of the sky.

Note that at the time of his administration a small portion of the public had EVER taken an airplane flight. Pushing improvements for anticipated future growth was a tough sell. Hard to imagine compared to the generator of commerce that is our airport, and most airports, today.

[TCLT]

13 hours ago, BarrenLucidity said:

They should really identify a method to eliminate that light in favor of continuous traffic flow from the interstates like ORD or PHL. 

The land use plan shows a direct connection to 85.

edit: link to airport site with RFP and land use plan docs.

Edited January 24 by TCLT
link

[xapostrophe]

1 hour ago, TCLT said:

The land use plan shows a direct connection to 85.

edit: link to airport site with RFP and land use plan docs.

it says winter 2024 for the latest update, so this is good newer info.

[tozmervo]

The size of the "multimodal center" (what a cute name for a parking deck) is insane. 

[TCLT]

So based on the RFP (which is from winter 2024), it actually looks like they've abandoned the Destination Blvd concept altogether as well as the Silver Line alignment along it. So that preferred alternative probably doesn't hold up anymore. Alternative A from the land use plan is the only one that uses a Wilkinson Blvd Silver Line alignment, so that might be a better visual to base expectations on. I also now notice that the process paragraph on page 4 indicates the land use plan was put together in 2018-2019 and the cost estimates on page 47 of the land use plan refer to 2019 dollars. So unfortunately this document is several years old. This is exactly why it's unforgiveable to not date documents!

[KJHburg]

Record year at CLT the regions biggest economic development driver.  

""Charlotte Douglas International Airport set a new record for travel last year with 53.4 million passengers, according to annual statistics disclosed today by the airport.

That passenger count eclipses the previous record of 50.2 million travelers set in 2019. With 53.4 million passengers in 2023, Charlotte Douglas, known as CLT, broke its previous benchmark by 6%.

Travel at CLT grew 12% year over year. In 2022, 47.8 million people flew through Charlotte.  

Local passengers totaled 16.6 million, or 31% of all travelers, up from 14 million, or 29%, in 2022.

The number of international passengers also increased last year, up to 2.1 million from 1.8 million in 2022.""

Charlotte airport returns to record passenger traffic in 2023 - Charlotte Business Journal (bizjournals.com)