Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[tozmervo]

That's an average of over 146,000 people passing through the airport each day. That's more than the 26k more than population of Wilmington each day squeezing through 0.6 square miles of space. 

[NDoran]

I work as an Airport Director and find that these passenger statistics can sometimes be confused when we are discussing hub airports with many connecting passengers. 

An important distinction to keep in mind: this is a count of total passenger operations, that is both the number of passenger enplanements or (boardings) “folks getting on aircraft” combined with a count of passenger deplanements (deboardings) “folks getting off aircraft”. 

At an airport like CLT, 76.7% were connecting passengers in FY21. Local origin and destination (O&D) passengers departing or returning home (arriving) accounted for 23.3 % in FY21. 

For the latest year, CY23, most of the 53 million passenger operations are transfer/connecting passengers arriving and deboarding (counting as one passenger operation) then boarding a second aircraft to their final destination (counting as a second operation, this time as an enplanement). 

For example, if someone flies from Roanoke to Charlotte then boards a second aircraft for London, this is one person passing through the CLT terminal facilities with the airport counting two passenger operations for that day (one deboarding and one boarding). Roanoke counts one boarding on the first flight. London-Heathrow counts one deboarding on the second flight. Four total across two flights. But CLT (the transfer hub) gets the benefit of counting two passengers operations for that day. 

When that happens, one individual person “counts” as two passenger operations rather than one. This also means that at a hub airport like CLT significantly less than 146,000 individuals are passing through the terminal each day. For the reason that 76%+ of the traffic counted as two passenger operations rather than one. 

On the other hand, the local O&D passenger, for example flying from CLT to Las Vegas on Spirit would only count as one passenger operation for the day. 

If you look at FAA reports - they are usually by calendar year and airports are ranked by the annual count of enplanements only. Generally speaking, airports that aren’t connecting hubs (the vast majority of airports) often have approximately double the count of enplanements. Most all airports tend to tout or publish the larger, more impressive number of total passenger operations (inclusive of boardings and deboardings). 

For the sake of simplicity, you will see marketing people say “ATL had 100 million passengers travel through” or CLT had “50 million passengers travel through”. That’s not exactly true as it’s an overly simplified statement. 

It isn’t 274,000 individuals per day at Atlanta because of how the major hub activity affects the counts. The BTS data also shows this understanding to be true. 

https://www.transtats.bts.gov/airports.asp?20=E&Nv42146=PYg&Nv42146_anzr=Pun4y166r,%20aP:%20Pun4y166r%20Q17tyn5%20V06r40n6v10ny&pn44vr4=SNPgf

Hope this makes sense. 

https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/2023-09/cy22-commercial-service-enplanements.pdf

http://www.stlannex.com/blogs_2020/blog_airport_connections#:~:text=Charlotte%20Douglas%20International%20(CLT)%20has,percentage%20at%20a%20meager%203.0%25.

https://filecache.mediaroom.com/mr5mr_cltairport/179771/download/CLT%20FY%202021%20Annual%20Comprehensive%20Financial%20Report%20FINAL%201.28.22.pdf

Edited January 25 by NDoran
Misspelling. Formatting issues.

[CLT Development]

25 minutes ago, NDoran said:

I work as an Airport Director and find that these passenger statistics can sometimes be confused when we are discussing hub airports with many connecting passengers. 

An important distinction to keep in mind: this is a count of total passenger operations, that is both the number of passenger enplanements or (boardings) “folks getting on aircraft” combined with a count of passenger deplanements (deboardings) “folks getting off aircraft”. 

At an airport like CLT, 76.7% were connecting passengers in FY21. Local origin and destination (O&D) passengers departing or returning home (arriving) accounted for 23.3 % in FY21. 

For the latest year, CY23, most of the 53 million passenger operations are transfer/connecting passengers arriving and deboarding (counting as one passenger operation) then boarding a second aircraft to their final destination (counting as a second operation, this time as an enplanement). 

For example, if someone flies from Roanoke to Charlotte then boards a second aircraft for London, this is one person passing through the CLT terminal facilities with the airport counting two passenger operations for that day (one deboarding and one boarding). Roanoke counts one boarding on the first flight. London-Heathrow counts one deboarding on the second flight. Four total across two flights. But CLT (the transfer hub) gets the benefit of counting two passengers operations for that day. 

When that happens, one individual person “counts” as two passenger operations rather than one. This also means that at a hub airport like CLT significantly less than 146,000 individuals are passing through the terminal each day. For the reason that 76%+ of the traffic counted as two passenger operations rather than one. 

On the other hand, the local O&D passenger, for example flying from CLT to Las Vegas on Spirit would only count as one passenger operation for the day. 

If you look at FAA reports - they are usually by calendar year and airports are ranked by the annual count of enplanements only. Generally speaking, airports that aren’t connecting hubs (the vast majority of airports) often have approximately double the count of enplanements. Most all airports tend to tout or publish the larger, more impressive number of total passenger operations (inclusive of boardings and deboardings). 

For the sake of simplicity, you will see marketing people say “ATL had 100 million passengers travel through” or CLT had “50 million passengers travel through”. That’s not exactly true as it’s an overly simplified statement. 

It isn’t 274,000 individuals per day at Atlanta because of how the major hub activity affects the counts. The BTS data also shows this understanding to be true. 

https://www.transtats.bts.gov/airports.asp?20=E&Nv42146=PYg&Nv42146_anzr=Pun4y166r,%20aP:%20Pun4y166r%20Q17tyn5%20V06r40n6v10ny&pn44vr4=SNPgf

Hope this makes sense. 

https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/2023-09/cy22-commercial-service-enplanements.pdf

http://www.stlannex.com/blogs_2020/blog_airport_connections#:~:text=Charlotte%20Douglas%20International%20(CLT)%20has,percentage%20at%20a%20meager%203.0%25.

https://filecache.mediaroom.com/mr5mr_cltairport/179771/download/CLT%20FY%202021%20Annual%20Comprehensive%20Financial%20Report%20FINAL%201.28.22.pdf

"At an airport like CLT, 76.7% were connecting passengers in FY21. Local origin and destination (O&D) passengers departing or returning home (arriving) accounted for 23.3 % in FY21."

HUGE thank you for this, I've been asking for this particular stat from the people who sell advertising at the Airport. They trot out the big numbers, which is all well and good if I was a credit card company or a macrobrewery. I, personally, am trying to attract people that are leaving the airport to come to Charlotte, so thank you. 

[Reverie39]

Is there a list of airports based on local origin and destination figures?

[LKN704]

2 hours ago, Reverie39 said:

Is there a list of airports based on local origin and destination figures?

Lots of data to play around with here: https://data.transportation.gov/Aviation/Consumer-Airfare-Report-Table-1-Top-1-000-Contiguo/4f3n-jbg2/data

https://www.transportation.gov/policy/aviation-policy/domestic-airline-consumer-airfare-report

 

[TCLT]

16 hours ago, CLT Development said:

"At an airport like CLT, 76.7% were connecting passengers in FY21. Local origin and destination (O&D) passengers departing or returning home (arriving) accounted for 23.3 % in FY21."

HUGE thank you for this, I've been asking for this particular stat from the people who sell advertising at the Airport. They trot out the big numbers, which is all well and good if I was a credit card company or a macrobrewery. I, personally, am trying to attract people that are leaving the airport to come to Charlotte, so thank you. 

The airport reports this every year in the appendices of their annual reports... Under Financial at this site.

2023 report for example:

[KJHburg]

In town today from CLT socials and photos by Mike Taylor

 

[NDoran]

6 hours ago, Reverie39 said:

Is there a list of airports based on local origin and destination figures?

The government T-100 files can be a lot to unpack. Best to look for instances where others have gathered the data into reports and published them. Orlando is one place where it is a destination airport rather than a connecting hub. Airports like that need huge areas for ticketing, passenger screening, and baggage claim. As you can imagine, almost everyone flying to Orlando is starting or ending their trips at that city.

On the other hand, the majority of those using airports like CLT or ATL are connecting rather than starting or ending their trips. That means CLT's overall terminal square footage can be a lot smaller and still get the job done. (Folks like to complain about that for some reason). But as you can see, 75-80% of the people using the Charlotte airport aren't needing to use the front of the house facilities like ticketing and baggage claim. They are only briefly occupying the concourse piers to change planes.  So, the overall terminal size can be smaller. And the ticketing and baggage claim areas aren't built for use by 50+ million annual passenger operations.  That said, CLT has seen an impressive increase in recent years in local use/utilization of the airport as seen in the growth of O&D traffic. Years ago, many flew from RDU or GSO seeking lower fares. Now many of them choose to fly from CLT.  16+ million locally-generated annual passenger operations is more than respectable, its impressive.  

Edited January 25 by NDoran
Added 2023 stats

[LKN704]

Raleigh, the second most over-served U.S. market (after Austin, relative to local demand) for international traffic is set to announce another international carrier next week. I believe it is Aer Lingus to Dublin. 

Really a testament to RDU’s successful air service development program. 

[KJHburg]

Aircraft being moved in the new aviation museum at CLT.

Moving Aircraft Into the New Main Gallery at Sullenberger Aviation Museum |

[KJHburg]

7 hours ago, LKN704 said:

Raleigh, the second most over-served U.S. market (after Austin, relative to local demand) for international traffic is set to announce another international carrier next week. I believe it is Aer Lingus to Dublin. 

Really a testament to RDU’s successful air service development program. 

Given the pharmacuetical industry and contract research organizations and tech companies located in the Triangle do you think it would do good?  I think probably on air freight alone it could be profitable.  Ireland is quite the tech and pharma center itself.     Ireland's Biopharma Sector | IDA Ireland  Look at the companies that are in Ireland and many of those same companies are in the Triangle.  

Plus I am hearing AA is maybe letting British Airways fly their London route and if that happens RDU could have 5 European carriers with this announcement on Monday.  Aer Lingus (maybe) British Airways (maybe taking over route) and Air France, Lufthansa and Iceland Air.  

Maybe CLT should try to attract some foreign flag carriers but I am betting most of their European service is based on their high value tech and pharma industries air cargo. 

Edited February 2 by KJHburg

[LKN704]

^Yes, it might actually not be Aer Lingus. 

CLT lacks any sort of large scale air service development program, for two reasons IMO.

On the one hand, CLT lacks the cojones to develop such a program out of fear of antagonizing AA. Such a sentiment may have made sense 10 years ago as the hub's future (particularly in terms of international service) was very much up in the air, but at this point CLT is a very integral part of AA's network and I highly doubt AA would care if CLT began to court international carriers and incentivize them to serve CLT. Other major fortress hub airports (ATL, IAD, DFW, etc.) all have air service development and incentive programs.

On the other hand, who would CLT court? What new carrier would increase connectivity from Charlotte and ultimately be the best use of funding? It isn't like Charlotte has this underserved international demand waiting to be tapped. The reality is that Charlotte has service to all of the cities that RDU has been able to gain service to via its most recent incentive packages.

Outside of Germany, Charlotte unfortunately lacks high levels of local international traffic to be meaningful to attract international air service. Raleigh actually has higher levels of traffic to London, China, and India.

You aren't going to court an East Asian carrier due to Charlotte's practically non-existent demand to East Asia. You likely aren't going to court any European carrier given Charlotte's good service to Europe. 

If I were CLT, I would try to attract Copa, who has shown a willingness to serve medium sized U.S. cities (New Orleans, Baltimore, Austin). Landing Copa would dramatically improve connectivity with Latin America.

I would also try and attract Qatar. I think a thrice weekly service on an A359 would probably do well, and would dramatically improve connectivity with the Indian subcontinent, Africa, and parts of Southeast Asia. AA would likely be quite receptive to a Qatar CLT-DOH flight.

[CLT2014]

1 hour ago, LKN704 said:

^Yes, it might actually not be Aer Lingus. 

CLT lacks any sort of large scale air service development program, for two reasons IMO.

On the one hand, CLT lacks the cojones to develop such a program out of fear of antagonizing AA. Such a sentiment may have made sense 10 years ago as the hub's future (particularly in terms of international service) was very much up in the air, but at this point CLT is a very integral part of AA's network and I highly doubt AA would care if CLT began to court international carriers and incentivize them to serve CLT. Other major fortress hub airports (ATL, IAD, DFW, etc.) all have air service development and incentive programs.

On the other hand, who would CLT court? What new carrier would increase connectivity from Charlotte and ultimately be the best use of funding? It isn't like Charlotte has this underserved international demand waiting to be tapped. The reality is that Charlotte has service to all of the cities that RDU has been able to gain service to via its most recent incentive packages.

Outside of Germany, Charlotte unfortunately lacks high levels of local international traffic to be meaningful to attract international air service. Raleigh actually has higher levels of traffic to London, China, and India.

You aren't going to court an East Asian carrier due to Charlotte's practically non-existent demand to East Asia. You likely aren't going to court any European carrier given Charlotte's good service to Europe. 

If I were CLT, I would try to attract Copa, who has shown a willingness to serve medium sized U.S. cities (New Orleans, Baltimore, Austin). Landing Copa would dramatically improve connectivity with Latin America.

I would also try and attract Qatar. I think a thrice weekly service on an A359 would probably do well, and would dramatically improve connectivity with the Indian subcontinent, Africa, and parts of Southeast Asia. AA would likely be quite receptive to a Qatar CLT-DOH flight.

CLT also has frequency on some routes that further adds additional seats to Europe versus RDU that makes it tough for competitors. When you look at winter schedules, AA is going at least daily on winter routes. During the winter season there are more seats between just CLT and LHR during a week than RDU has to Europe among multiple cities at less than daily service. CLT is a hub, so the only reason 13,000 - 19,000 seats weekly are headed to Europe is due to connectivity, but we'd be looking at a dramatic reduction in seats each week without the hub and less frequency. It makes it tough for CLT to offer a compelling business case to other carriers that they can enter and be competitive, especially if they enter at less than daily frequency. The majority of CLT based travelers are also AA frequent fliers / card holders, which further makes it challenging for non-One World to enter. 

I do think Qatar will come someday / give it a shot, but it would basically be a flight between two cities that are largely connecting hubs to go elsewhere. 

CLT in winter:
LHR: 3x daily
MUC: 2x daily
FRA: 1x daily
MAD: 1x daily
Weekly seats in winter to Europe: 13,517
Season summer/spring flights added:
DUB: 1x daily
CDG: 1x daily
FCO: 1x daily
Weekly seats in summer to Europe: 19,250

RDU in winter:
LHR: 1x daily
CDG: 3x/ week
Iceland: 4/ week
FRA: 3/ week
Weekly seats in winter to Europe: 4,144
Frequency in summer:
LHR: 1x daily
CDG:1x daily
Iceland: 1x daily
FRA: 5/ week
Weekly seats in summer to Europe: 6,574

Edited February 2 by CLT2014

[CLT2014]

I haven't noticed this, but the information desk on the departures area is a 777 engine cowling converted into a desk by MotoArt. Recently from the CLT X. 

 

 

[CltFlyer]

7 hours ago, LKN704 said:

^Yes, it might actually not be Aer Lingus. 

CLT lacks any sort of large scale air service development program, for two reasons IMO.

On the one hand, CLT lacks the cojones to develop such a program out of fear of antagonizing AA. Such a sentiment may have made sense 10 years ago as the hub's future (particularly in terms of international service) was very much up in the air, but at this point CLT is a very integral part of AA's network and I highly doubt AA would care if CLT began to court international carriers and incentivize them to serve CLT. Other major fortress hub airports (ATL, IAD, DFW, etc.) all have air service development and incentive programs.

On the other hand, who would CLT court? What new carrier would increase connectivity from Charlotte and ultimately be the best use of funding? It isn't like Charlotte has this underserved international demand waiting to be tapped. The reality is that Charlotte has service to all of the cities that RDU has been able to gain service to via its most recent incentive packages.

Outside of Germany, Charlotte unfortunately lacks high levels of local international traffic to be meaningful to attract international air service. Raleigh actually has higher levels of traffic to London, China, and India.

You aren't going to court an East Asian carrier due to Charlotte's practically non-existent demand to East Asia. You likely aren't going to court any European carrier given Charlotte's good service to Europe. 

If I were CLT, I would try to attract Copa, who has shown a willingness to serve medium sized U.S. cities (New Orleans, Baltimore, Austin). Landing Copa would dramatically improve connectivity with Latin America.

I would also try and attract Qatar. I think a thrice weekly service on an A359 would probably do well, and would dramatically improve connectivity with the Indian subcontinent, Africa, and parts of Southeast Asia. AA would likely be quite receptive to a Qatar CLT-DOH flight.

A good possibility seems like it might be the (almost) brand new airline Bermudair.

For those unfamiliar,  they are an Bermudian based airline that commenced operation in May 2023.  They operate smaller Embraer 175 aircraft  and are trying to create a niche between airports that didn't have or had limited service to Bermuda.  They just announced Baltimore and Orlando, but people have pointed out that there is slack in the fleet for another route that could time well with RDU.

I could see them making sense in RDU with frequency of 3 to 4 times week to cater to the ever-growing Northeastern transplant population in the Raleigh Durham area.  Charlotte already has a daily flight, but I could seem room for this flight as well.

 

 

 

On another note,  the Burger King in the atrium caught fire for the 2nd time in less than 2 years!  It happened later at night so little disruption and no injuries were reported.  

https://www.wbtv.com/2024/02/02/crews-battle-overnight-fire-restaurant-inside-clt-airport/

Maybe they should just replace it with something else, because the location clearly doesn't want to be open.

 

 

 

[LKN704]

On 2/1/2024 at 1:32 PM, LKN704 said:

Raleigh, the second most over-served U.S. market (after Austin, relative to local demand) for international traffic is set to announce another international carrier next week. I believe it is Aer Lingus to Dublin. 

Really a testament to RDU’s successful air service development program. 

It is Copa to Panama City - 4x weekly service starting in June. 

It's interesting as I believe Charlotte has larger O/D traffic levels to most Latin American destinations than Raleigh does and I can't imagine AA would respond to Copa starting CLT. 

Copa's hub in Panama City is extremely impressive - they are a cool airline and it feels like you are more or less flying United thanks due to their long-standing partnership and similar marketing. 

RDU now has seven foreign flagged carriers: Bahamasair, Copa, Icelandair, Air France, Aeromexico, Lufthansa, and Air Canada.

Edited February 5 by LKN704

[CltFlyer]

Not CLT specific but Charlotte area specific.  Concord-Padgett Regional Airport has an announcement tomorrow and appears to be in line for new service on Ultra Low Cost Carrier Avelo Airlines!

Original flights would be to New Haven, CT with the likelihood of flights to Florida coming in the future.  

Avelo has already set up a base at RDU and operate to several other airports in the Carolinas in Wilmington, Asheville, Charleston, Myrtle Beach, and Greenville, SC.

I supposed they found Concord to less costly and less congested.  This will be Concord's 2nd carrier along with Allegiant.

 

[csweet]

12 hours ago, CltFlyer said:

Not CLT specific but Charlotte area specific.  Concord-Padgett Regional Airport has an announcement tomorrow and appears to be in line for new service on Ultra Low Cost Carrier Avelo Airlines!

Original flights would be to New Haven, CT with the likelihood of flights to Florida coming in the future.  

Avelo has already set up a base at RDU and operate to several other airports in the Carolinas in Wilmington, Asheville, Charleston, Myrtle Beach, and Greenville, SC.

I supposed they found Concord to less costly and less congested.  This will be Concord's 2nd carrier along with Allegiant.

 

Not surprising, but I feel like this could be a bigger deal in the near future. Allegiant was suppose to build a "base" with (2) 320's stationed at JQF a couple years back. Instead, they have shrunk their Concord ops. 

If Avelo can figure out solid expansion plans, I could see a 737 being based here with multiple flight adds by EOY. 

[LKN704]

I recall Avelo stated in a government filing when they first started flying that they had intentions to serve CLT, but JQF has the space and is likely cheaper to operate so it makes sense. 

I personally cannot imagine they would want to go and compete with Allegiant on their Florida routes - I can't imagine Avelo growing there. 

[csweet]

1 hour ago, LKN704 said:

I recall Avelo stated in a government filing when they first started flying that they had intentions to serve CLT, but JQF has the space and is likely cheaper to operate so it makes sense. 

I personally cannot imagine they would want to go and compete with Allegiant on their Florida routes - I can't imagine Avelo growing there. 

Definitely agree - maybe they try northern routes first.

There are FL gaps in Allegiants routes that Avelo could try. PBI, VPS, and RSW all come to mind.

[CltFlyer]

Here is the official Avelo press release.

2 weekly (Thursday's and Sunday's) beginning May 2nd. 

Introductory fares of $62 one way.

https://www.aveloair.com/route-announcements/avelo-airlines-expands-service-from-new-haven-with-four-new-destinations-atlanta-charlotte-knoxville-and-destin

[tozmervo]

Regarding work at CLT: 
I think this has been asked before, but I can't recall. Are they working on more efficient baggage handling? CLT is still consistently, far and away the slowest bag retrieval I ever experience flying. Experienced it once again last night. 

[LKN704]

Fortress hubs are usually always slow for baggage reclaim simply because connecting bags take priority over terminating local traffic bags. 

[InSouthPark]

1 hour ago, tozmervo said:

Regarding work at CLT: 
I think this has been asked before, but I can't recall. Are they working on more efficient baggage handling? CLT is still consistently, far and away the slowest bag retrieval I ever experience flying. Experienced it once again last night. 

I would have to go back and lookup what I did before, but they are at least expanding the baggage area to like 8+ carousels (running perpendicular to how they go now).  That alone should at least make the wait better and less congested.  I assume all the new additions will mean new infrastructure in the backend.

While I always complain it takes too long, every time I say I will go get the car in Long Term and have my wife wait for the checked bag...she texts me before I typically gotten to the car and it would have been faster to wait and not circle back LOL. 

[gman430]

American adds Charlotte (CLT)-Quebec City (YQB) starting in August: 

https://www.patreon.com/posts/98216418

Edited February 10 by gman430