Music City Center, 1.2 million sq. ft., $623 million

[rolly]

The undulating curves on this building are so cool. I never thought they would go with such a design (+costs).  It's probably the single biggest catalyst in the city's history. 

[markhollin]

Signage on Music City Circle complete.

Looking north from Music City Circle:

Looking east from Music City Circle:

[Bos2Nash]

Looks good. Love the depth of the letters. Wonder if those newer bollards will provide enough light for the sign or if there is more lighting improvements

[markhollin]

Courtesy of Aerial Landscapes:
 

[Armacing]

Interesting bit of information:   The MCC seems to be loosing about $1.5M per month while there are no conventions going on.  We could be a long way away from seeing the return of large conventions - assuming they ever happen again.

https://www.nashvillemusiccitycenter.com/sites/default/files/media/Quarterly%20Reports/quarter_1_fy2021_-operational_rev_exp.pdf

[samsonh]

10 hours ago, Armacing said:

Interesting bit of information:   The MCC seems to be loosing about $1.5M per month while there are no conventions going on.  We could be a long way away from seeing the return of large conventions - assuming they ever happen again.

https://www.nashvillemusiccitycenter.com/sites/default/files/media/Quarterly%20Reports/quarter_1_fy2021_-operational_rev_exp.pdf

They could lose a million a month into eternity and because of the hotel taxes will always be fine. On page 5 of the below link you will see the Center ran an operating loss of almost $11 million for FY 2019, yet had non operating(tax) revenue of over $91 million so increased it’s net position by around $80 million. 
 

Sure it would be great if the center ran a profit, but that’s not really the goal. The goal is to get people here to spend money. 
 

https://www.nashvillemcc.com/sites/default/files/media/Quarterly Reports/fy2018-2019_audit.pdf

[Armacing]

10 hours ago, samsonh said:

They could lose a million a month into eternity and because of the hotel taxes will always be fine. On page 5 of the below link you will see the Center ran an operating loss of almost $11 million for FY 2019, yet had non operating(tax) revenue of over $91 million so increased it’s net position by around $80 million. 
 

Sure it would be great if the center ran a profit, but that’s not really the goal. The goal is to get people here to spend money. 
 

https://www.nashvillemcc.com/sites/default/files/media/Quarterly Reports/fy2018-2019_audit.pdf

Socialize the risks, privatize the profits.

[samsonh]

4 minutes ago, Armacing said:

Socialize the risks, privatize the profits.

They are quite literally socializing the profits! In fact, one could argue the tax is generating far more revenue than anticipated and should be lowered!

Edited December 15, 2020 by samsonh

[Armacing]

On 12/15/2020 at 9:23 AM, samsonh said:

They are quite literally socializing the profits! In fact, one could argue the tax is generating far more revenue than anticipated and should be lowered!

And by "quite literally", I think you mean "figuratively".  Because I highly doubt the (after-tax) profits generated by the hotels/restaurants downtown are returning to the metro budget.  I'm pretty sure they go to the owners/shareholders of those *private* businesses you see downtown.  Yet, none of those businesses had to invest any of the $623M to build the MCC.  Thus - socialize the risks, privatize the profits.

[donNdonelson2]

Right now none of the city’s hotels are banking much (if ANY) in profits! Some are shuttered entirely.  Private investors are taking plenty of risks to build the room numbers volume to serve our sprawling convention facility. A big convention hall with too few hotel rooms nearby is pretty worthless.

[samsonh]

2 hours ago, donNdonelson2 said:

Right now none of the city’s hotels are banking much (if ANY) in profits! Some are shuttered entirely.  Private investors are taking plenty of risks to build the room numbers volume to serve our sprawling convention facility. A big convention hall with too few hotel rooms nearby is pretty worthless.

Just today we see an article about a downtown hotel in special servicing being listed below its loan value.

 

But all this is besides the point: the MCC generates loads of customer visits in non covid times, has millions in excess reserves, has contributed millions to the stretched Metro budget they were not required, and is in absolutely zero financial danger(which armacing was alluding to a few posts above) before he went into socializing risk and privatizing profit, which makes zero sense in this conversation!!

[MLBrumby]

Like with nearly all investments, they're betting on the future. If past is prologue, then Nashville is in for a yuuuuuuge tourist boom when this madness is over. 

[Armacing]

On 12/16/2020 at 6:36 PM, donNdonelson2 said:

 Private investors are taking plenty of risks to build the room numbers volume to serve our sprawling convention facility. 

But financing the MCC is not one of those risks... that's my point.  The word "Plenty" is highly subjective.  When it comes to business ventures, I prefer that private investors take "All" of the risks and taxpayers take "None" of the risks.  The word "Plenty" seems to imply the government needs to take some of the risk - thus:  Socialize the risks.   Yet the government does not share in the profits generated by that risk - thus: Privatize the profits.   

Edited December 20, 2020 by Armacing

[Armacing]

On 12/16/2020 at 9:24 PM, samsonh said:

and is in absolutely zero financial danger(which armacing was alluding to a few posts above) before he went into socializing risk and privatizing profit, which makes zero sense in this conversation!!

I'm not really eager to dive into a prolonged discussion of this issue.   My "Socialize the risks, privatize the profits" comment was a reaction to your claim that the MCC "could loose a million a month into eternity".  If you believe that the metro government should use tax dollars to subsidize private businesses as a means of generating growth in a particular part of the local economy (at the expense of other parts of the local economy), just own that belief and stop being so confused/offended by insightful observations about the nature of such subsidies.

[ruraljuror]

2 hours ago, Armacing said:

I'm not really eager to dive into a prolonged discussion of this issue.   My "Socialize the risks, privatize the profits" comment was a reaction to your claim that the MCC "could loose a million a month into eternity".  If you believe that the metro government should use tax dollars to subsidize private businesses as a means of generating growth in a particular part of the local economy (at the expense of other parts of the local economy), just own that belief and stop being so confused/offended by insightful observations about the nature of such subsidies.

Your point would be fair if Samson were talking about general 'economic impact' estimates that could be loosely linked to the MCC, but I believe he's talking about actual hotel tax receipts that are directly attributable as MCC non-operational revenue. 

At risk of overstating the obvious, when operational and non-operational revenue are accounted for, if there are no losses then there would be no losses to either socialize or privatize. There are, however, direct earnings in excess of expenditures on our local government's balance sheet as a result, which is what Samson is referring to when he says they're socializing the profits. 

As the captain said, it seems what we'e got here is a failure to communicate. No harm done either way, of course, and I think most of us are opposed to arrangements where profits are privatized while losses are socialized, which happens all too often.

[samsonh]

2 hours ago, ruraljuror said:

Your point would be fair if Samson were talking about general 'economic impact' estimates that could be loosely linked to the MCC, but I believe he's talking about actual hotel tax receipts that are directly attributable as MCC non-operational revenue. 

At risk of overstating the obvious, when operational and non-operational revenue are accounted for, if there are no losses then there would be no losses to either socialize or privatize. There are, however, direct earnings in excess of expenditures on our local government's balance sheet as a result, which is what Samson is referring to when he says they're socializing the profits. 

As the captain said, it seems what we'e got here is a failure to communicate. No harm done either way, of course, and I think most of us are opposed to arrangements where profits are privatized while losses are socialized, which happens all too often.

Precisely! Said much better than I could have. We have an enormously profitable convention center, that will no doubt refinance into even cheaper debt at the first chance they are allowed. I was a skeptic of MCC, but it has wildly outperformed. 

[nashville born]

Just read through this thread.  Wowsers.  Thank you MCC for your economic impact and for your impact on density and skyline growth.  Having said that, you also brought us that Less-than (aka Westin).  Guess it's true that no good deed goes unpunished.

 

[nashvylle]

When are conventions returning?

[downtownresident]

12 minutes ago, nashvylle said:

When are conventions returning?

There was a Tattoo show at the MCC just this past weekend. I seem to recall(maybe in error) that the first conventions would return in June. 

[nashville born]

17 minutes ago, nashvylle said:

When are conventions returning?

Based on the crowds at the Preds games and in Madison Square Gardens, I'd guess soon.  

[Jamie Hall]

1 hour ago, nashvylle said:

When are conventions returning?

I just read that a major party's national governors associations (I won't even name which one to avoid opening a political can of worms) is having its annual convention here in Nashville this week, for what it's worth. Not exactly a massive convention in terms of numbers, but it's good to see Nashville hotel rooms getting booked.

Edited May 27, 2021 by Jamie Hall

[BnaBreaker]

2 hours ago, Jamie Hall said:

I just read that a major party's national governors associations (I won't even name which one to avoid opening a political can of worms) is having its annual convention here in Nashville this week, for what it's worth. Not exactly a massive convention in terms of numbers, but it's good to see Nashville hotel rooms getting booked.

KEEP THOSE WHIG PARTY JERKS OUTTA MY TOWN!!  

[Licec]

15 minutes ago, BnaBreaker said:

KEEP THOSE WHIG PARTY JERKS OUTTA MY TOWN!!  

 

It's not your town. It's the people who live in Nashville town. The ordacity of someone who doesn't even live in Nashville thinking he can decree who holds a meeting here is stark raving lunacy.

Edited May 27, 2021 by Licec

[Flatrock]

3 minutes ago, Licec said:

18 minutes ago, BnaBreaker said:

KEEP THOSE WHIG PARTY JERKS OUTTA MY TOWN!!  

 

It's not your town

I believe that's what's called good ol' fashioned satire - from a beloved member of Urban Planet.

[Flatrock]

From the Upcoming Events Calendar section of Music City Center, there appears to be a LOT of significantly sized conventions booked and on their way here starting in June. Very exciting to see this:

https://www.nashvillemusiccitycenter.com/events