Greenville Mall

[GSP Tiger]

What is a State Line Tack/tack shop? I am not familiar with these terms.

State Line Tack is an equestrian equipment, apparel and gear catalog retailer. Through select Petsmart locations they offer catalog items in store. The Marketplace (Laurens Road) location is the only location that has this exclusive department.

[Greenville]

State Line Tack is an equestrian equipment, apparel and gear catalog retailer. Through select Petsmart locations they offer catalog items in store. The Marketplace (Laurens Road) location is the only location that has this exclusive department.

Many thanks, BoDragon.

[mallguy]

Is someone going to update the deadmalls.com entry, now that this struggling center will be resurrected from the dead?

[perrykat]

People have probably tried to, but they never update anything. I've sent articles and pictures before and they've never responded or put them up.

I may be going out to the mall today; I'll see if anything new's going on around there.

[StevenRocks]

People have probably tried to, but they never update anything. I've sent articles and pictures before and they've never responded or put them up.

They are notoriously slow over there.

[perrykat]

I finally got to the mall yesterday, and according to an employee at PH&G, she said they will definately be leaving the mall, but couldn't disclose any more than that just yet. She did say, though, that if all goes on schedule the mall could close by early-mid summer. I spoke to someone at Sports Authority and she said they were originally told (back in October, when the mall was purchased) that the store at Greenville Mall would be closed this summer but nothing else has been said since then. She said that given the store's slow sales since it opened in '95, she doubted they would stay there.

Remember, these are from employees and I have NO clue if they're accurate or not, I've gone to stores before and had one person tell me one thing and the next tell me something completely different.

Anybody else have any more news?

[mallguy]

I finally got to the mall yesterday, and according to an employee at PH&G, she said they will definately be leaving the mall, but couldn't disclose any more than that just yet. She did say, though, that if all goes on schedule the mall could close by early-mid summer. I spoke to someone at Sports Authority and she said they were originally told (back in October, when the mall was purchased) that the store at Greenville Mall would be closed this summer but nothing else has been said since then. She said that given the store's slow sales since it opened in '95, she doubted they would stay there.

Remember, these are from employees and I have NO clue if they're accurate or not, I've gone to stores before and had one person tell me one thing and the next tell me something completely different.

Anybody else have any more news?

Not surprising given the store's location in the back of a dead mall, especially with a Dick's Sporting Goods at Greenridge. So sad. But out of curiosity, how has the store stuck around for so long, and how did the other anchors get to close? I'd think that mall anchors would have at least 10-15 year leases. Ward's obviously could get out of that due to bankruptcy, but Parisian/Proffitt's lasted only 9 years, and that JBWhite/Dillard's probably would have signed a lease extension or something when the mall was re-done in '95. Maybe the leases had outs if the stores had sales below certain targets- but then why has Oshman's/Sports Authority stuck around for so long?

And did Oshman's/Sports Authority ever consider moving to the front of the mall- or did mall management brilliantly not want "that kind of store" at the front of the mall where it would be visible to people who would frequent an upscale mall, just like management nixed Old Navy from taking the old Wards space?

[Greenville]

I see what you mean, mallguy, but I still have trouble calling Greenville Mall an "upscale" mall. There were some nice stores there, even in the mid-late 90's after the renovations, but it isn't like it had Armani, Versace, Prada, etc. There were no upscale big box tenants like Bloomingdale's, Nordstrom's, etc. Parisian was nice, and definitely a cut above Belk, but I am not sure it was any nicer than Rich's or Macy's. In fact, there weren't even any upper tier national retailers like Banana Republic, Abercrombie, etc. Haywood had those, and that is why people chose to shop at Haywood instead of Greenville Mall.

I will say that Greenville Mall had an eclectic mix of local stores that had some nice offerings, but also some not-so-great stores that were there just to fill spaces (Post Script, pool table store, Camelot, etc.). Plus, there were always empty storefronts, which is pretty bad for a mall of only one floor. I think the owners would have liked to see the mall progress into a higher-end mall, but it never was anything like Phipps Plaza or Lenox Square that you would find in Buckhead. Not even in the mall owners' wildest dreams.

In the past, it has been suggested here that Greenville shoppers did not having the wealth to support an upscale mall. I do not believe that at all. Rather, Haywood was just a better mall.

[mallguy]

Good points. Perhaps we can just consider it an upscale mall by South Carolina standards (no slam at the state; there just isn't that much very high-end shopping there).

I thought that Williams-Sonoma, Harold's, Parisian, April Cornell, Crabtree & Evelyn, Talbot's and a few others were very desirable national tenants that were moderately expensive and were often found in premier malls. True, as you point out, there just weren't that many stores at Gville Mall though.

The pool table store and that sad dog grooming salon, among others, came later, after some of the original stores from '95 closed (the pool table store was a high-end clothing store that lasted maybe a year or so at most, and then became a branch of the Drexel Heritage furniture store, and then even that closed, for example). Post Script and that baseball card store had been in the mall since the '80s, before it was rebuilt; I'd think that the owners would have kicked out those stores since the other stores that came in '95 were mostly nice national chains.

For Parisian- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parisian; I didn't write the article (but added the info for the Greenville Mall store) but think it's generally accurate, placing the store above mid-market dep't stores but below Saks Fifth Avenue.

Still, for someone who was forced to shop by necessity at McAlister Square (home of a few urban apparel stores and nothing better than mid-market chains) and Haywood before '95 (which was better than McAlister, but mainly just bigger), Greenville Mall was really nice- it just didn't have enough stores in it. Definitely didn't become a Phipps Plaza but it was so disappointing to see it slide downhill.

[Version70-8]

Not surprising given the store's location in the back of a dead mall, especially with a Dick's Sporting Goods at Greenridge. So sad. But out of curiosity, how has the store stuck around for so long, and how did the other anchors get to close? I'd think that mall anchors would have at least 10-15 year leases. Ward's obviously could get out of that due to bankruptcy, but Parisian/Proffitt's lasted only 9 years, and that JBWhite/Dillard's probably would have signed a lease extension or something when the mall was re-done in '95. Maybe the leases had outs if the stores had sales below certain targets- but then why has Oshman's/Sports Authority stuck around for so long?

And did Oshman's/Sports Authority ever consider moving to the front of the mall- or did mall management brilliantly not want "that kind of store" at the front of the mall where it would be visible to people who would frequent an upscale mall, just like management nixed Old Navy from taking the old Wards space?

Well, I'm not sure about all of the old anchor stores, but Dillard's owned their location at Greenville Mall and didn't have to worry about a lease with the mall owners. When they decided to close their doors they just shut them and were able to avoid an expensive buyout of any lease agreement.

[btoy]

Not surprising given the store's location in the back of a dead mall, especially with a Dick's Sporting Goods at Greenridge. So sad. But out of curiosity, how has the store stuck around for so long, and how did the other anchors get to close? I'd think that mall anchors would have at least 10-15 year leases. Ward's obviously could get out of that due to bankruptcy, but Parisian/Proffitt's lasted only 9 years, and that JBWhite/Dillard's probably would have signed a lease extension or something when the mall was re-done in '95. Maybe the leases had outs if the stores had sales below certain targets- but then why has Oshman's/Sports Authority stuck around for so long?

And did Oshman's/Sports Authority ever consider moving to the front of the mall- or did mall management brilliantly not want "that kind of store" at the front of the mall where it would be visible to people who would frequent an upscale mall, just like management nixed Old Navy from taking the old Wards space?

I still think as far as product selection foes, that the Oshman's/Sports Authority is a much better store than Dick's.

[mallguy]

I went to that mall today- absolutely dead, other than Finish Line, Sports Authority, Nina's, Penn's Art Galleries, PH&G, Oriental Express and a few in-fill tenants. Really sad to see the mall absolutely dead.

The gray, stormy clouds outside matched my sad state as I walked through my beloved center, in its state of death.

[greenvilleguy]

Walked through Greenville Mall myself yesterday and it was absolutely depressing. I still don't understand how a city the size of Greenville could let a second mall become that dead, for lack of better words. I didn't realize how Eddie Bauer leaving would put the final nail in the coffin. There was no music, no water, no plants, and now, no stores other than the anchors and Finish Line. For the 15 minutes I walked the mall I didn't see another person. As much as I don't like the idea of Rooms to Go and Costco coming to that site, anything is better than nothing...

[mallguy]

I must give G'ville Mall management credit for at least keeping the mall in good shape- even the directory seems current.

I remember walking through Bell Tower Mall as it was dying at that was far worse: the directory was a paper one that was crumpled up in its glass case, the Woolco anchor doors to the mall were closed, and it was just sad and kind of sleazy looking. Gville Mall is sad too but at least it's still a nice mall. Such a shame to see it go to waste, given its good physical condition.

[whitehourseview]

Indeed, I think that's the worse thing about Greenville Mall. It has a date with a wrecking ball and there is nothing run down or physically wrong with the property. In fact, I always thought the design of it was kind of pretty.

It's just a bad business model.

I wish the facility was out towards the Taylors/Greer area instead of within walking distance of a mall with a better business model.

[mallguy]

Indeed, I think that's the worse thing about Greenville Mall. It has a date with a wrecking ball and there is nothing run down or physically wrong with the property. In fact, I always thought the design of it was kind of pretty.

It's just a bad business model.

I wish the facility was out towards the Taylors/Greer area instead of within walking distance of a mall with a better business model.

Is this the business model you are referring to:

"No doubt about it, a mall without tenants has a cash-flow problem..."

(This describes a dying mall in Florida, in a news article from today, but it seems to be Greenville Mall's business model as well.)

[btoy]

Indeed, I think that's the worse thing about Greenville Mall. It has a date with a wrecking ball and there is nothing run down or physically wrong with the property. In fact, I always thought the design of it was kind of pretty.

It's just a bad business model.

I wish the facility was out towards the Taylors/Greer area instead of within walking distance of a mall with a better business model.

You can not criticize the developers for locating the Greenville Mall to close to the Haywood Mall. You must remember that while the Haywood Mall was planned first the developers of the Haywood Mall had decided to to build it and so the developers of the Greenville Mall went forward with their plans. They belived that they would be the only ones, it was just bad luck that two years later the developers of the Haywood Mall would decide to move forward after all.

[mallguy]

You can not criticize the developers for locating the Greenville Mall to close to the Haywood Mall. You must remember that while the Haywood Mall was planned first the developers of the Haywood Mall had decided to to build it and so the developers of the Greenville Mall went forward with their plans. They belived that they would be the only ones, it was just bad luck that two years later the developers of the Haywood Mall would decide to move forward after all.

Good point. Why did Urban Retail spend $60-some million in 1995 to redo Greenville Mall after it had failed once? I think that was due to lack of knowledge of Haywood's market power.

Out of curiosity, who first developed Greenville Mall? I recall that Haywood was built by Cousins Properties, Bell Tower was built by local developers, and I can't remember who did McAlister.

[StevenRocks]

Good point. Why did Urban Retail spend $60-some million in 1995 to redo Greenville Mall after it had failed once? I think that was due to lack of knowledge of Haywood's market power.

At the time, Haywood Mall was the middle-market shopping mall, and Greenville Mall thought it could capture the upscale customers. They were bolstered by the fact they had two strong anchors (J.B. White and Montgomery Ward) and Parisian was willing to bank on the future of the place as well.

What was not considered or expected was the demise of Wards and White's and the proliferation of big-box stores. When things got tough, new upscale stores gravitated towards the larger, more successful mall, making Haywood what it is today.

It wasn't a mistake, it was just the wrong time to embark on a project of that scale. If they had a crystal ball, they would have leveled the place years ago and put up a lifestyle center. Unfortunately, there were only about 12 lifestyle centers in exuistence back then, so nobody was really convinced they'd take off.

[mallguy]

Good points. I think you're exactly right. So sad that Urban Retail completely miscalculated.

I just remember reading the Greenville News article in 1994 about Greenville Mall's redevelopment and expansion and thinking, "why in the world would they expand a dead mall?!" Kind of like Saks Fifth Avenue opening at dying Town & Country Mall in Houston in the '90s. Haywood was Greenville's dominant mall from the day it opened, in part because it had the mid-market stores people in Greenville love, and Greenville Mall in the 1980s and early 1990s wasn't even the 2nd-best mall in the market; it was the worst and least successful, after McAlister Square, which seemed to always do OK, and then died. I assume that Urban Retail learned from that experience not to count on successfully challenging a dominant mall in a market.

Plus, I think McAlister Square would still be around as a mall (probably not an A-grade mall though) if it had received a major upgrade and expansion in the mid-'90s; losing that Dillard's really set it down the path towards mall death. So sad as well.

[btoy]

Just because a property "dies" does not mean that it can not be reserected properties are repositioned all the time.

[mallguy]

Just because a property "dies" does not mean that it can not be reserected properties are repositioned all the time.

Good point as well. By "died" I meant that both McAlister and Greenville are no longer enclosed malls with retail stores in them (sorry, the Boda Pipes in the old Open Book space at McAlister doesn't make it a true mall), nor will they be in the near future.

[perrykat]

Went to GM today, and it can officially be classified now as a "dead mall." It was so quiet you could almost hear footsteps from one side of the mall on the other. Strangely enough, Sports Authority has installed NEW signs on the inside of the mall and outside! Why would that be? Considering the mall hardly has any foot traffic and is going to be torn down, it seems like a waste to me.

I have a couple of questions - what was the empty store between Harold's and Nina's with the greenish-looking marble stuff on the front? It looked colorful inside. It had been covered up with a bag thing until recently. It's across from the old Drexel-Heritage/Palmetto Home.

Also, this is REALLY hard to describe...but maybe somebody will know what I'm talking about. What was the store that's next to the PH&G corridor with the white doors and oval windows? There's an entrance right next to PH&G (kind of hidden back) and there's another one in the main corridor. It looks like a big store, it has ceiling fans in it it looks like. Both entrances, like I said, are kind of hidden back like. Does this make any sense? What was this store? This is the best description I can give, the store's been vacant ever since I can remember.

Thanks!

[goodbye]

Someone recently mentioned that at least a couple of the anchor stores could remain as part of the new development.

[mallguy]

The store between Harold's and Nina's was originally an Intimate Bookshop, a regional chain that also had stores at SouthPark in Charlotte, in Chapel Hill, NC and elsewhere. I liked the store; it was a mall-type bookstore (i.e., limited selection) but I liked the staircase in the back, which seemed to be a signature element of the chain's stores. The store lasted about a year after the mall re-opened in 1995 and then closed, and the chain eventually closed, I think; the space was vacant for years and was then filled by B-grade tenants such as a pet care store from time to time.

The store between PH&G and the main corridor was originally Indigo Road, a high-end preppy (?) clothing store owned by the same person who owned two other stores that were there in 1995: Old Man McKittrick's and Three Degrees North. I never shopped there because the space didn't look particularly inviting, with the entrance set back from the mall corridor. IR moved to one of the vacant spaces in between the two mall entrances to Oshman's/Sports Authority and the space's later occupants included, among other things, an Oriental rug dealer.

So sad.