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Granby Tower

brikkman

By brikkman
in Norfolk

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vdogg Megalopolis

vdogg

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WTF! What is going on with all of this? Come on, the man said he had financing secured! How could he possibly proceed with construction if he hadn't closed on the loan. How could a stonington official say they had finalized the loan if this in fact was not the case. I give up! You have got to be kidding me.

I mean they even placed a section of tower crane for Gods sake.

People are gonna start cancelling contracts left and right now. There is no way I see this going through. So much for downtown Norfolks resurgence.

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vdogg Megalopolis

vdogg

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This project will succeed if we can just get the damn thing built. There will be a return on investment, even if they only have 50% of the condos sold by the time the building is built the remaining ones will be sold over time. This housing and credit crunch probably won't even last another 3 years. Someone out there has to have enough vision and foresight to see this.

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vdogg Megalopolis

vdogg

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Honestly Spiker, I don't believe the city will let this fail. We have over 500 piles in the ground, are they gonna let that lot just remain a torn up hole with piles sticking out of it? It's gonna become something, that's for damn sure. Due to it's location I think the city finds this project more integral to the future of downtown than the Hilton will ever be. If the gauntlet is thrown down, and Buddy absolutely cannot get financing, the city will cough up something. The more I think about it, I think that this is what Buddy was banking on. He knew months ago that this loan wouldn't go through. I think he figured "We'll just start construction, and then when we can go no further we'll go to the city and ask for another hand out. They won't want the embarrassment of another failing project downtown so they will definitely come through". <_<

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spiker3 Hamlet

spiker3

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Honestly Spiker, I don't believe the city will let this fail. We have over 500 piles in the ground, are they gonna let that lot just remain a torn up hole with piles sticking out of it? It's gonna become something, that's for damn sure. Due to it's location I think the city finds this project more integral to the future of downtown than the Hilton will ever be. If the gauntlet is thrown down, and Buddy absolutely cannot get financing, the city will cough up something. The more I think about it, I think that this is what Buddy was banking on. He knew months ago that this loan wouldn't go through. I think he figured "We'll just start construction, and then when we can go no further we'll go to the city and ask for another hand out. They won't want the embarrassment of another failing project downtown so they will definitely come through". <_<

Not saying that the development won't be converted into something, i just don't think that if Marathon chokes that we'll get Granby Tower or anything in the same mold. Maybe an office tower or building, but if Gaddams drops, GT drops, was all i'm saying. I do agree though, i think the city is going to cough up some serious dollars because they don't have the smarts to pull the plug on a 'friend of the city.' Because of his connections and like you said, the progress, the city's going to either give a hand out or a massive subsidy. And given the last deal with financing (the city giving the subsidy in order for the bank to finance the building) this next deal would be in addition to that, not the original deal, which means more money from the city's coffers. Especially in order to get the building financed at this point, from a 'top ten national lender' would take some serious money from the city, given the market conditions and Marathon's three years of futility in finding a legitimate or cooperative lender. Unfortunately, i think Gaddams, short of receiving a $30 - 50 million commitment from the city, on top of the original $23 million, won't be able to line up financing from anyone, especially not a name brand financial institution.

When your financier is Stonington Capital Corporation, you've accepted the bottom of the barrel. And when the bottom of the barrel pulls out of a deal, there's a reason. No way does Gaddams rebound from Stonington and come back with CitiFinancial or Merril Lynch or anyone with national brand and credibility. Additionally, if Gaddams did have a lender, the only business savvy thing to do would be shouting it from the rooftops, to salvage this disaster of a project. Playing mum or coy about who's he's allegedly lined up, given his track record, only hurts this project. Every time Gaddams opens his mouth, it seems, it hurts this project. In declining to name the supposed new financial backing, Gaddams has said he's pulling more smoke and mirrors, rather than being up front and truthful. vdogg is dead on, two weeks is a joke. It took three months for the deal to finalized with the last group, how would he possibly have pulled off a new one on a flailing project (on paper to investors) in two to three weeks?

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hroads01 Unincorporated Area

hroads01

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I am very upset about the current situation dealing with Granby Tower. I was at the site on Monday and it was busy with activity. One day later all activity has stopped because financing was not finalized. It is very hard not to give up on this project. With all of the negative things that have happened to this project I am leaning toward the possibility of Granby Tower not being built.

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VAGATOR Whistle-Stop

VAGATOR

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I'm starting to believe Granby Tower has been a con job since the beginning and he never had the financing. No reputable financial organization is going to loan this man 100 million dollars. Now the city is left with a big hole in the ground with a bunch of piles stuck in it.

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vdogg Megalopolis

vdogg

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The article has been updated, on a slightly more positive note. That said, the credit market situation is not good for any project downtown. Save for light rail, which is financed by federal dollars, we really have to be wary about our other projects. Even Wachovia. I normally don't subscribe to Tels doom and gloom variety of prognostication but it is apparent now that the economy is taking a nose dive. This story is being repeated in cities far larger than us across the nation, it's a miracle we held on this long. This actually reminds me of the period immediately following 9/11 when projects were tanking left an right due to a cooling in the economy. I can only hope that this is short term and things shake out in the next few months, vice a long term recession.
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Telmnstr Burg

Telmnstr

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A few things.

First, when the project was started buildings of this caliber were selling out in a day or two, mainly to investors. But the court issue slowed things down, and they missed the mania window. If this isn't the case, then there wasn't enough mania in Hampton Roads to support it.

Second, if you have ever visited the sales office, they make you sign this card. As I recall the card says that anything the salespeople tell you might not be real, or happen. It's a "don't sue us if you buy one, and it ends up being half of what you expected" type thing. Very odd in my opinion. Actually, I was totally shocked by it.

Third, would you loan them money? Let's look at it. There is a huge inventory glut in Hampton Roads. Condos are the first to decline in a down market, and often take huge beatings. Sales has barely moved at all, they've been touting the same sales percentages for a while.

The building would be cool, no doubt. But $400K can you get a 3000+ square foot, all brick mansion looking thing in Raleigh, on real property with multiple garages. How many people are willing to drop that kind of money to live in downtown Norfolk? It isn't that exciting of a town, let's not kid ourselves.

People with money in this area generally live on the water, or in huge houses. The American Dream that has been sold and marketed to the people for years is a house with a fence and cars and stuff, not owning an apartment where every wall is shared with a neighbor.

I was surprised that construction had started, I didn't think it would see the light of day.

Hey, at least we got Harbor Heights! It might be cool to rent a place in there for half of whatever the "owners" mortgage is. Let the owner eat the condo fees too.

BTW, the condo fees on these places is absolutely nuts as well.

The condo fees that young people are paying are equal to what old people are paying in mortgages.

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hoobo Burg

hoobo

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Economy takes a dive after the tech bubble burst and 9/11. The fed rate is slashed and kept low to prop up the economy by increasing home sales and thereby increasing sales of goods and by reducing the rate for business loans. U.S. and world economy soar. As the pool for prime home loans disappear, sub-prime loans take off. To stave off inflation, the prime rate is increased to the point where sub-prime loans become too expensive for a good amount of those who got them. The housing market fizzles in most markets and corrects, even pops, in some over-heated markets like Vegas and Florida. Despite all this, the U.S. and world economy keep on chugging along. Yes, there's a hit, but not as severe as people expected. We're a third of the way through the housing bubble fizzle too. In the mean-time, the credit markets are hit hard. So the Fed drops the discount rate to ease some tensions. It doesn't do enough, so it cuts the fed rate. And there is much rejoicing on Wall Street as the credit crunch should ease up and business loans will be easier to come by.

Buddy Gadams and the Granby Tower will be saved and Norfolk won't have to give him another subsidy. Robert Johnson will look more like a jerk. And Wachovia will get built.

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NSUREDD Whistle-Stop

NSUREDD

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I agree with Telmnstr, this thing is as shady as downtown Norfolk at 6:00pm in the fall. I still do not understand why he would charge so much for a space that over looks another building. I would like to see it finished but like grandma use to say "somthin' aint right, just can't put my finger on it"

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ace707 Hamlet

ace707

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I was driving by the site today on my way home from circuit court to report for jury selection and I can confirm that work is NOT completely halted. Pile-driving is obviously on hold but just like the updated pilot article mentions, work has been "lighten" to save Gadams on costs while he gets his issues straight. Several workers were on site doing surveying work and a back hoe doing some digging work along the Granby St. side of the site this morning.

Whether we like or not, this building is getting built. Hate me or call me over optimistic, etc... but Granby Tower will get built. The credit crunch is definitely making things difficult but our region is overall in much better shape than the rest of the nation. Most residential projects being canceled or delayed for several years across the nation can't even announce sales because they don't or hardly exist and for Granby, being just over half sold and not opening for another 2 years can be risk that a lender with the money to take a stab at it. However I'm am willing to say that Gadams does not have his house in order and as evidenced here and including my personal feeling, his falls have tarnished his reputation.

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vtfan18 Whistle-Stop

vtfan18

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...However I'm am willing to say that Gadams does not have his house in order and as evidenced here and including my personal feeling, his falls have tarnished his reputation.

Ok...so I've kept quite about this for too long but have shared this knowledge with some of the people folks on this board. I want this project built more than anyone but this is a prime example of "something coming back to bite you in the butt." Let me explain...Buddy Gadams never had any intention of completing this project when he first proposed the deal. This was all a plot to get the federal government to pay more money for the land. He announced the project, performed marketing, solicited sales. All of this in an effort to boost the value of his property to the federal government. He wanted the government to buy the land from him. Buddy has never had any experience developing a project of this size and once the government backed out and said we don't want it...there was no turning back. He had already gotten support from the city, gotten sales contracts, etc. I could go on and on about why the city had to grant the subsidy in order for Buddy to get financing. Bottom line, there is a lot more behind the scenes that people don't know but everyone is smart enough to know something isn't right. Buddy is having his reputation tarnished and the city is having their image damaged over this project that has become the nightmare step child that has simply grown out of control.

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Padman Hamlet

Padman

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"Let me explain...Buddy Gadams never had any intention of completing this project when he first proposed the deal. This was all a plot to get the federal government to pay more money for the land. "

I don't understand why he would then bother to pay Turner Construction to drive piles for this thing. That would be a very strange way to conduct a scam. It's like a lie from a little boy taking on a life of its own. What a mess. As far as I'm concerned, this show's not quite over, but I'm not sure I want to watch the end any more.

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