Granby Tower

[Telmnstr]

This is all so reminiscent of the continuing travails of Trump Towers Tampa, which has sat at the same stage as Granby Tower finds itself, for about two years now. The details are different, but the core is the same -- over optimistic developer has grandiose plans and runs into financing problems. Rosy press releases continue, but can't coverup the reality -- the project will probably never get off the ground.

The Tampa guy is talking to NY "hedge funds" (read, legalized loan sharks) about the construction money. What that means is he is at the same point as Buddy -- with the lenders of last resort. Maybe Buddy can pull a rabbit out of his hat -- maybe he can't. This Tampa guy has the Trump name (that is now in dispute, but still advertised as "Trump Towers"), in a market much more used to upscale high rise living.

Wow, I'm surprised to read abou the Tampa Trump project on here. Is Tampa one of the sites that really has Trump involved? I know many of the new Trump projects are nothing more than a licensed name. People were buying them with the hopes to get closer to the Donald, and later found out he has nothing to do with it other than selling naming rights.

Hedge funds are all over the housing mess.

Unfortunately, with every day that passes, the harder it will be to get financing.

Ever since I switched jobs I haven't been able to keep up with the housing blogs like I used to.

[Sky06]

There was an article in InsideBiz today. Anyone have access?

[urbanvb]

Not much here except a time line but here is the article.

[Sky06]

Not much here except a time line but here is the article.

I guess I missed the earlier VP quote I was looking for:

[rusthebuss]

I guess time will tell if this is another sham from Gadams. I really hope not!

[Telmnstr]

They need to find some price reductions so they can sell the rest of the units.

It's a catch-22. Lower the price, and all of the early adopters get PO'ed and want money back.

Don't lower the prices, and the other units never sell.

Market window of opportunity slammed shut a while ago.

[Padman]

It's all a crap shoot anyway. At least this tower isn't going to open during the coming year, when the housing market should hit bottom. Right now, interest rates are about as low as they are likely to be for a long while. Inflation and higher rates are almost certain to be a factor when Granby Tower opens. So this is a great time to get financing if it can be gotten, and next year might be a good time to purchase property. There might even be a little pent up demand then. Think long term?

[Telmnstr]

It's all a crap shoot anyway. At least this tower isn't going to open during the coming year, when the housing market should hit bottom. Right now, interest rates are about as low as they are likely to be for a long while. Inflation and higher rates are almost certain to be a factor when Granby Tower opens. So this is a great time to get financing if it can be gotten, and next year might be a good time to purchase property. There might even be a little pent up demand then. Think long term?

But I think many of the home loans are tied to LIBOR rates, not the US interest rates (I can't say I've been watching interest rates). The ARM loan resets still carry out for another 3 or 4 years, so the realtor peeps that the main stream media is quoting are going to be wrong about calling the bottom next year.

On some of the blogs, they've dropped numbers that construction materials are way cheaper in some cases. Like wood by the linear foot and what not. So it would seem that construction could possibly be much cheaper, especially if there is reduced demand from competing projects in bigger cities. I don't know, I spent a few minutes trying to find this type of information once, but couldn't find much other than the downturn has already led to problems and job loss at wood mills and stuff.

Definitely a head scratcher. I didn't see any activity at the GT site, we tried to go to Bodega for lunch but they don't open till 5pm. Hit Bobbie's Deli instead. Never been there before, so scored a checkbox on another spot on the Granby street (G string, lol).

[spiker3]

I'm in love with that Inside Biz article. For all the negative press talk regarding the Pilot, there's still been no holding Gaddams accountable for his words and press releases. This is the first, and long long long overdue.

Sky, in regards to the financing thing, please see my earlier post. The likelihood of any reputable financial instituion loaning a project this botched is laughable. A top-10 name is a pipe dream. IF it is indeed true (which i do not believe it is) it'll definitely be a bank we've never heard of. (By the way, Yahoo! search Stonington Capital and you'll find one press release from 06) If a company like that won't back you, why would Merril Lynch or Citi?

And work has definitely halted on this project, it's a ghost town at the site, except for one pump running.

[thatguy]

It took him months, if not a year, to line up his first lender. Now he can somehow line up another one in weeks? The reason his lender left, is going to be the same reason other lenders will balk...he has not hit his sales commitment. If you pre sell to your limit, then people will line up with the money to lend.

[brikkman]

The developer on this project is local correct?

No new news yet I assume?

I have not seen any workers in a few days.

It has officially haulted now...

[vdogg]

The developer on this project is local correct?

No new news yet I assume?

I have not seen any workers in a few days.

It has officially haulted now...

It just now hit 2 weeks today so it's not surprising that there was nothing going on yesterday. We should expect an article soon.

[vdogg]

Man, would it ever be great to see some hardhats roaming around about now.

[rusthebuss]

2 weeks will equal 2 months

[New England Transplant]

Guys, I'm not feeling too hopeful on this one. The market just keeps on softening. There was an article on Bloomberg about housing companies (ie.., Toll Brothers) just liquidating assets (condos, homes etc.) to try to survive. I'm sure it isn't that bad for everyone, but there definitely seems to be a trend towards less of a need and lowering prices.

I'd really, really, really love to see this happen, but the ball has been dropped too often for me to feel more than 20% confident that this thing will be pulled off in the proposed manner.

[spiker3]

Time to change a byline...work HAS completely halted

It just now hit 2 weeks today so it's not surprising that there was nothing going on yesterday. We should expect an article soon.

Article or quote? Article calling out GT for not delivering i'm hoping for, but i'd expect another semi-press release about coming soon or finalizing details, etc etc.

Coming up on three weeks and counting.....

[brikkman]

I guess the next question will be, will the city allow the area to stay undeveloped? And will they only allow someone to do a similar structure on the same scale. I'm doubtful at this moment, I never thought this could happen in construction. Lesson learned.

[gosscj]

What baffles me is that so much money has already been pumped into this project. How could any developer, at this point, look at the situation and say the best option is to quit now with all this built up debt? Is there really nobody willing to invest in this kind of development?

[erdogs]

Here in Austin a high-rise was being built before the dotcom bust and it was never finished. They built up to six floors before going belly up. It was finally demolished this past summer. I wouldn't be surprised to see this project suffer the same fate. Mr. Gaddams may just cut his losses and move on. He was certainly ambitious, but way over his head in my opinion.

[levarforever]

Well, I hope not. It'll be a major setback for downtown Norfolk's momentum...well maybe not a major setback, but a setback nonetheless. I wonder if the lack of continued investment has something to do with the condo market cooldown.

[spiker3]

Well, I hope not. It'll be a major setback for downtown Norfolk's momentum...well maybe not a major setback, but a setback nonetheless. I wonder if the lack of continued investment has something to do with the condo market cooldown.

That and a horribly soiled developer reputation.

[vtfan18]

That and a horribly soiled developer reputation.

I agree...future buyers for any development Buddy is building will certainly have doubts and this has made city council look foolish.

[Padman]

We just move on. It's still possible to build something beautiful downtown, even a landmark, maybe even on the Granby Tower site. There's nothing wrong with different mixes in a mixed use project. Manhattan and other districts have lots of office/condo/apartment tower combinations. You don't have to throw hotels in, or condominiums. I hope Buddy finds an investor, but I sense that the condo tower idea is passe for now. Maybe a skyscraper consisting of law offices/retail and apartments next to a fed court complex makes more sense.

[hoobo]

Why not cut his losses and negotiate something with the GAO or whoever buys for the feds. Then Gaddams could take his vision and cash from the land sale and partner with Fuller et al. on the Hilton. Imagine that building with 100-200 condos on top of it? Do I hear Westin Redux? If Norfolk Council can pull a deal like that, then hats off to them.

[Sky06]

Why not cut his losses and negotiate something with the GAO or whoever buys for the feds. Then Gaddams could take his vision and cash from the land sale and partner with Fuller et al. on the Hilton. Imagine that building with 100-200 condos on top of it? Do I hear Westin Redux? If Norfolk Council can pull a deal like that, then hats off to them.

Absurd. First off, the revised hotel project is moving forward, and it doesn't need something like this to screw that up as well. 2nd, the GAO's plan to extend the courthouse is moving forward, and it doesn't need something like this to screw that up as well. 3rd, Gaddams would never do what you're saying. 4th, this project ain't dead yet.

Before we start proposing a LR station with a library above that and court rooms above that and a convention center above that and condos above that and apartments above that a hotel above that and a Wegman's above that and law offices above that and a really modern looking office building above that and a gold's Gymn above that and . . .

Let's be patient. After all, that's the name of the game in the current RE market.