Granby Tower

[hoobo]

Absurd. First off, the revised hotel project is moving forward, and it doesn't need something like this to screw that up as well. 2nd, the GAO's plan to extend the courthouse is moving forward, and it doesn't need something like this to screw that up as well. 3rd, Gaddams would never do what you're saying. 4th, this project ain't dead yet.

Before we start proposing a LR station with a library above that and court rooms above that and a convention center above that and condos above that and apartments above that a hotel above that and a Wegman's above that and law offices above that and a really modern looking office building above that and a gold's Gymn above that and . . .

Let's be patient. After all, that's the name of the game in the current RE market.

Dude, what is your deal? I'm not being sarcastic. I'm being serious. I understand that this is something that would be difficult to do now but it would really be a landmark for Norfolk. Isn't Granby less than 50% sold? isn't there a consensus that Gaddams may be in a little over his head. We are all disappointed with the Hilton's height and design. Since both projects have been sputterring for 2 years and I'm still not convinced that either will start full scale construction in the next several months, why not see if something can be brokered? You combine two developers and their financial backings as well as their two projects. Instead of a 25-story and a 20-story tower, you'd have a 40-story, maybe 45-story tower. Yes, structural and geotech redesign will take another year or so, but there are willing buyers for the condos and there is a market for the hotel. No one will come and fill the gap in that time frame. In the end, Norfolk would get a building superior to both.

As for the GAO, as we've seen, it moves at a tortise's pace. They can easily move their design across the street. Maybe they could move entirely across the street and vacate the existing structure after completion. That would be good space for law offices or even condo conversions. If not, you still have a vacant lot that is ready for a new building since all the sitework has been done already.

You said be patient. That doesn't mean be complacent. It doesn't hurt to see if something different can be done.

[spiker3]

Speaking just for me, my patience in regards to Marathon and Buddy Gaddams went out the window in early to mid 2006, while the site sat empty with 6 'test' piles poking out of it, while we had sugar plums dancing over our heads about construction starting soon and booming sales. I'm sure i'm not the only one.

And i'm 100% confident that if someone right now offered Gaddams $10 million for that land, he would take the money and run. Not a doubt in my mind. This project may not be dead, but it's on life support, barely breathing. Every day that passes without news is another nail in the coffin at this point. Because believe me, as soon as a lender were to be lined up, it would be released.

[Padman]

I'm in the same camp..not holding my breathe any longer, and a I'm little depressed and tired of the wait. This was the only high rise in Norfolk that I was really excited about, and I've been expecting something like it for more than 30 years now. The other projects have been nice, but not inspiring (pardon the partial pun).

[vdogg]

Hmm... And here I thought we'd hear something by now. I'll expand on my thoughts later when I get home.

[VAGATOR]

Gaddams would probably have problems getting a payday loan, much less a loan for 150 million dollars. This project is dead. It's time to considering other uses for this land. Maybe a new TCC/City of Norfolk library.

[Telmnstr]

Gaddams would probably have problems getting a payday loan, much less a loan for 150 million dollars. This project is dead. It's time to considering other uses for this land. Maybe a new TCC/City of Norfolk library.

A 30 story TCC building / library?

Only if it has a restaurant and roller coaster on top.

[vdogg]

I wonder what the possibility is of converting half this thing to apartments for the time being with the option to buy later? There has got to be something they can do to get this thing off the ground.

[metalman]

I'm surprised this hasn't been posted yet.

Gadams may have finacier by next week!!!

News Channel 3 video report last night-

http://hamptonroads.cox.net/cci/home

Look at "Local New" box with all the little red video camera images. Click on story "Granby Tower Progress"

[cpeakesqr]

Ummm, that's basically what he said when the financing fell through... "Oh, it's a possibility I'll have the money next week."

At least the retail is 75% sold, but I'm not sure if I believe that condo's are really 50% sold.

[vdogg]

Ummm, that's basically what he said when the financing fell through... "Oh, it's a possibility I'll have the money next week."

At least the retail is 75% sold, but I'm not sure if I believe that condo's are really 50% sold.

I believe it, since that is the same number that's been thrown around for months now. It's an indication of how slow the condo market has become. It at least sounds like the project is still viable enough that someone with deep pockets may be willing to take a risk on it. He said 2 weeks 3 weeks ago so maybe 1 week means 2 weeks and we'll see construction start by the end of the month.

I'm surprised this hasn't been posted yet.

Gadams may have finacier by next week!!!

News Channel 3 video report last night-

http://hamptonroads.cox.net/cci/home

Look at "Local New" box with all the little red video camera images. Click on story "Granby Tower Progress"

I've religiously googled Granby Tower for the last few weeks searching for any new news. They must have just posted this online this morning.

[vdogg]

I hate how they showed a picture of the lot during daytime in 2005, then showed a picture at nighttime now when you can see absolutely nothing to say that nothing has changed. What a crass tactic. Why not show a side by side comparison with 2 daylight photos? Oops, I forgot, they wouldn't be able to make their little point then.

[ace707]

So Granby Tower refuses to die! Yay, I'm sad for all the problems but at least they have the will to get this done despite our market. You would be surprised at how scared I get whenever I read on the Wall Street Journal or on yahoo.com and see articles about the "10 worse housing markets" or "10 most over-saturated housing markets", or "the top real estate markets filled with empty residences overpriced for it's city/region", etc and fearing a mention of anything having to do with Norfolk or the region in general. Thankfully that hasn't happened. I won't expect a 2009 opening date, I from now on will only expect Granby to get built once the area begins to be on the upswing for housing. Hopefully that is within the next 5 years lol. As long as we get this tower I'll be happy.

[levarforever]

I've decided not to put my heart into this project, because it has the tendency to let me down every now and then. I'll just let whatever happens to unfold, unfold. I am glad to finally get an update, for crying out loud . Looks like, if all goes well, the next two years will be busy construction years for Norfolk...lots of noise and traffic inconveniences downtown, with Granby Tower *, light rail, Wachovia Center, Hilton, Belmont and so on. It'll be exciting though...and encouraging.

[brikkman]

I stop driving by there once I thought it was a done deal.

I will not drive by until I see them pouring concert for the first floor.

[vdogg]

I won't stop driving by until I see them put the spire on top...

[metalman]

I won't stop driving by until I see them put the spire on top...

...and then you'll go there for Starbucks.

[Telmnstr]

Granby Tower just keeps coming back for more. I'm afraid a big issue is they will never be able to sell the units?

As far as taking condos to apartments (The term for it is usually re-partment, when apartments go condo, don't sell and wind up back on the apartment block). I'm not sure how well that would work. First, the people who bought might not be happy that they have to live next to icky renters (even though the buyers could likely have 0% down, I/O loan and technically own 0, homeowner is a funny word). On top of that, it is likely that the prices would have to be dropped to a point that shows the true market value of the condos. For instance, my rent is like $1137/month, which would make the purchase price for this $125,000 (110 months). A condo that is nicer in trim, but way less view was for sale around the block for $379,000 ($252/sqft? WTFBBQ!). That is very very unbalanced, generally owning should be cheaper than renting because you get stuck with the maintenance and upkeep.

Going rental in the tower prob. wouldn't work. All of the other new projects already have rentals popping up from investors, and there are other condos listed below city appraisal in new projects. The market just can't support this stuff.

I mean, seriously, how many of you would drop $400,000 to live in a 1000sqft box? 4 years ago, just 4 years ago $400,000 was an all brick mcmansion with a pool in Virginia Beach. And according to Va Pilot, salaries haven't gone up.

GT needs to cut all prices in half. Then it would move units.

[spiker3]

GT needs to cut all prices in half. Then it would move units.

I know we generally disregard Tel's sky is falling housing downturn prophecies, but he has a very valid point here. If GT scaled back the luxury in parts of the building, say the 1 BR and townhouse units, or portions of the tower, and cut the price, units would sell, publicity would swing back positive, financing and we'd get this project off the ground again. As it stands, GT is in an already crowded market, and isn't even set in stone to be built. At this point they need a cutting edge idea or major change, i just don't see the project as advertised being built. It would take a sales price cut or god forbid scale size cut for this to happen. Time to start thinking outside the box....

[vaceltic]

A scale-back would probably mean the money that Norfolk is providing for this project would change as well. If a scale-back happens, we are talking at least another year for engineering planning and hashing-out the financial agreements before the project would begin again.

[vdogg]

Every project this year has been scaled back. Can't we keep one as is? Put me in the all or nothing crowd. If it's gonna be mediocre then I don't want it at all. Might as well just let the GSA put a courthouse there if we're gonna keep settling for less.

[spiker3]

Every project this year has been scaled back. Can't we keep one as is? Put me in the all or nothing crowd. If it's gonna be mediocre then I don't want it at all. Might as well just let the GSA put a courthouse there if we're gonna keep settling for less.

I agree whole heartedly, i love the project as is. However, it's hung up by an overzealous/shady developer who will kill this project. At this point i'd take a half of what GT was originally supposed to be. But i agree with all or nothing, except that its looking more and more like we're going to be solidly in the nothing category. Gaddams is toast...

[Sky06]

I agree whole heartedly, i love the project as is. However, it's hung up by an overzealous/shady developer who will kill this project. At this point i'd take a half of what GT was originally supposed to be. But i agree with all or nothing, except that its looking more and more like we're going to be solidly in the nothing category. Gaddams is toast...

Shady? How is he shady? Because of delays? Every project in the country seems to be going throught that. He may be in over his head. He may be overambitious. He may exaggerate progress. But shady? That's a bit much.

This is a big project in a tough market period. But I sincerely doubt half the units have to be sold before financing can happen. This project will take at least 2 years to build, and there will be plenty of time for things to change. I think lenders know that. This area is hardly a major risk, like the middle of nowhere. But there's much work to be done to get this right. It's still going to happen.

[vdogg]

Shady? How is he shady? Because of delays? Every project in the country seems to be going throught that. He may be in over his head. He may be overambitious. He may exaggerate progress. But shady? That's a bit much.

This is a big project in a tough market period. But I sincerely doubt half the units have to be sold before financing can happen. This project will take at least 2 years to build, and there will be plenty of time for things to change. I think lenders know that. This area is hardly a major risk, like the middle of nowhere. But there's much work to be done to get this right. It's still going to happen.

Actually, believe it or not, I think 60 or 70% presale is the going rate for financing to be released for condos. Gadams is catching a break with the 50%. The thing that gives me hope is that retail is 75% sold out, indicating that others think this is a good investment.

[Telmnstr]

This is a big project in a tough market period. But I sincerely doubt half the units have to be sold before financing can happen. This project will take at least 2 years to build, and there will be plenty of time for things to change. I think lenders know that. This area is hardly a major risk, like the middle of nowhere. But there's much work to be done to get this right. It's still going to happen.

I wouldn't call him shady, but I don't know how anyone would feel comfortable investing in any project like GT. Over 50% of the subprime mortgage lenders have gone out of business, credit is tightening up, and our market is absolutely full of high end housing. All the builders have worked to optimize the return on their land purchases by building large homes... so all over Hampton Roads exists a glut of very expensive homes, generally outside the affordability of the residents. I've seen a lot of talk about how environmentally irresponsible it is to have all these 2 person families in these 4500 sqft homes... but that is for another thread.

[vdogg]

Not much, we'll see

He said the appraisal on the project was finalized Monday and that the numbers in it "were good."

"We're hoping to get something done by the end of the week," he said. "Things look good."

Mayor Paul Fraim expressed optimism that Granby Tower will be built.

"I'm still very encouraged," he said. "I know part of the problem has been the appraisal, which has taken some time. But that's been accomplished.

"Hopefully, now it will be a matter of days."

City officials have said a loss of the 34-story, 302-unit project would be a critical setback to the continued revitalization of downtown.

I'm sure we all knew this anyway, but for the good of Norfolk they really need to get that deal done. I will remain very cautiously optimistic, I just don't like the waivering "week or two" talk. Just sounds like more of the same.