The Greensboro Triumph Center

[cityboi]

I picked up the Triad Journal today and in the article Ray Gibbs describes this project as being like a themepark without rollercoasters and waterslides. As Twin City said, it will include a cluster of highrises and midrises. The investors in Orlando and internationally have mile long deep pockets according to Ray Gibbs, president of Downtown Greensboro, Inc He also states that the entertainment venues will be significant and will attract national acts (House of Blues type venues) The investors are looking at the fact that several million people live within a two hour drive of Greensboro and was attractied to the revitalization efforts in downtown Greensboro as well. Gibbs says a project like this can changed the dynamics of Greensboro.

[cityboi]

another key point, in the business Journal, Ray Gibbs says, once we get a letter of intent to purchase some land, plans will be reveal and "everyone's jaws will drop". The News & Record Reports that an offer (letter of intent) would be made within the next 7 to 10 days meaning it may not take two or three months before plans are revealed but they could be revealed within the next two weeks.

[cityboi]

Ive been thinking. from the city's perspective it would be best if this development went on the Duke Power site/ city property. That way the city can sell the land to the developer and take some of that money to go towards suff like building a parking deck for this development and other infrastructure improvements. That makes the best sense in regards to the city's budget because a limited amount of money would come out of the city's current budget. It would cost the city more if it is built on the other sites which the city does not own. The city manager seem to prefer this site as well. Hopefully there wont be alot of environmental issues with that site though. If not, this project could be a done deal if built on the former Duke Power site.

[luvdowntowngso]

Ive been thinking. from the city's perspective it would be best if this development went on the Duke Power site/ city property. That way the city can sell the land to the developer and take some of that money to go towards suff like building a parking deck for this development and other infrastructure improvements. That makes the best sense in regards to the city's budget because a limited amount of money would come out of the city's current budget. It would cost the city more if it is built on the other sites which the city does not own. The city manager seem to prefer this site as well. Hopefully there wont be alot of environmental issues with that site though. If not, this project could be a done deal if built on the former Duke Power site.

Cityboi, based on the site maps you posted a while back, is the Duke Power land and the land acrosse Friendly Ave. all one track for the development? That looks like the case, but I'm not sure. Is this land where GTA is located?

This would also be a good location because the east side of DT needs some development. This project could be a good tie-in with the Morrow Station project and help with development of the E. Market area.

[cityboi]

Cityboi, based on the site maps you posted a while back, is the Duke Power land and the land acrosse Friendly Ave. all one track for the development? That looks like the case, but I'm not sure. Is this land where GTA is located?

You are correct. Actually its three seperate tracts that would be combine as one. The first is the largest tract, the Duke Power site which was land banked for development by the Weaver Foundation. The second and third tracts are across Friendly which is city property (where they park city buses) and some land own by Lincoln Financial.

Oh it certainly would tie in to the Murrow Station development which is another big project. Project X would certainly make a great gateway project for East Market Street. Plus a huge unnamed mixed-use midrise residential development with a hotel and plaza is suppose to be built on the Old Post Office site not to far away from the Duke Power site. That means a third new hotel for downtown. (Then downtown would have a total of 5 hotels) Downtown is really taking off!

[cityboi]

Whats interesting about the duke power sites is that it borders the train tracks which means at some point in the future the development could have a light rail or commuter rail stop. The Duke Power site also borders the multi-lane Murrow Blvd which would help relieve traffic coming into and leaving this development.

[jervais]

This all sounds really big... can't wait to see how it all turns out

[cityboi]

It is very exciteing! based on some sources, this project would be the first of its kind in the United States which really makes it exciting that Greensboro would be the first. The developers eventually want to do this in other regions of the country but Greensboro is the "test development". It wont be long before other cities begin to use Greensboro as a model template for downtown revitialization.

It would be so exciting if this development had one of these and that could be a very realistic possibilty based on the description of entertainment venues in this project. This could be the future of downtown Greensboro.

various House of Blues venues in Myrtle Beach, Orlando, Cleveland, Chicago and New Orleans. They all have similar style but with their own local architectural flares.

[cityboi]

one problem I see this project running into, and its been in the back of my mind are the naysayers that may not want this project in Greensboro because its "TOO big for the city". While I think Greensboro has made strides towards becoming a true urban city, there are still elements in Greensboro that want the city to remain as a "small town". Obviously this would be a "big city" development (Something you'd expect to see in cities like Atlanta, Cleveland or major tourist destination areas). I was told by a source that there is indeed an element in Greensboro that doesnt want this in our city because of the nature and size. This kind of project would mean rapid change for our downtown and city. One guy on another forumed joked about getting in the sign business because oppisiton will be making plenty of protest signs.

I imagine we'll be hearing from Bill Burckley pretty soon, especially if Jim Melvin is involved in this project LOL. Also we'll loudly hear from the Fisher Park residents if this is being proposed on the cheverolet property next to the ballpark. That site pretty much borders Fisher Park. This is the biggest problem I see that can keep this from happening because if opposition stalls this, the development will go to another city. My personal opinion is to build this downtown where surrounding established downtown neighborhoods wont complain. The Duke Power site is perfect in my opinion because there are no established neigherborhoods for several blocks surrounding this property and its a good size lot when you combined the city and Lincoln Finanacial property across Friendly Ave. The city manager also prefers this site probabally for the same reason I mentioned. Another good thing about the former Duke Power site is that there arent alot of hoops and hurdles to jump through to get the land because it was land banked by the Weaver Foundation for the sole purpose of redevelopment. Plus the Church Street parking deck is across the street from the property which would help provide parking for the development. Of all the sites, it the largest piece or property that can be developed rather quickly. The ballpark kinda serves as the entertainment anchor for the west side of downtown. Now the east side of downtown needs an entertainment anchor.

I think there can still be other great opportunities on the cheverolet property. According to the News-and Record another developer (not associated with this mega developement) is looking at the property as well.

However I have noticed, some people that opposed the baseball stadium are supporting this project.

[luvdowntowngso]

one problem I see this project running into, and its been in the back of my mind are the naysayers that may not want this project in Greensboro because its "TOO big for the city". While I think Greensboro has made strides towards becoming a true urban city, there are still elements in Greensboro that want the city to remain as a "small town". Obviously this would be a "big city" development (Something you'd expect to see in cities like Atlanta, Cleveland or major tourist destination areas). I was told by a source that there is indeed an element in Greensboro that doesnt want this in our city because of the nature and size. This kind of project would mean rapid change for our downtown and city. One guy on another forumed joked about getting in the sign business because oppisiton will be making plenty of protest signs.

I imagine we'll be hearing from Bill Burckley pretty soon, especially if Jim Melvin is involved in this project LOL. Also we'll loudly hear from the Fisher Park residents if this is being proposed on the cheverolet property next to the ballpark. That site pretty much borders Fisher Park. This is the biggest problem I see that can keep this from happening because if opposition stalls this, the development will go to another city. My personal opinion is to build this downtown where surrounding established downtown neighborhoods wont complain. The Duke Power site is perfect in my opinion because there are no established neigherborhoods for several blocks surrounding this property and its a good size lot when you combined the city and Lincoln Finanacial property across Friendly Ave. The city manager also prefers this site probabally for the same reason I mentioned. Another good thing about the former Duke Power site is that there arent alot of hoops and hurdles to jump through to get the land because it was land banked by the Weaver Foundation for the sole purpose of redevelopment. Plus the Church Street parking deck is across the street from the property which would help provide parking for the development. Of all the sites, it the largest piece or property that can be developed rather quickly. The ballpark kinda serves as the entertainment anchor for the west side of downtown. Now the east side of downtown needs an entertainment anchor.

I think there can still be other great opportunities on the cheverolet property. According to the News-and Record another developer (not associated with this mega developement) is looking at the property as well.

However I have noticed, some people that opposed the baseball stadium are supporting this project.

Cityboi, I like to call the naysayers you speak of "CAVE" people! Citizens Against Virtually Everything. This group is not happy with any progress large or small. The CAVE term was passed along to me by a friend who lives in Charlotte!

Yes, even a very progressive city like Charlotte has CAVE people!

I agree things have improved in Greensboro over the 19 years I've lived here. After causing an uproar over the coliseum expansion and the building of the downtown ballpark, the local CAVES have been pretty quite. Is it possible that some of them can actually see that planned growth and progress can be good for a city? I don't know. One can only hope so! I do think they have a right to voice their opinion. However, I have met a few people over the years that would be just as happy if Greensboro were a one stoplight town! As a strong advocate for progress and planned growth for the entire Triad, I believe we all have an obligation to elect the best leadership that will have the foresight and vision of the future to continue to make the Triad the best place to live.

[cityboi]

you are right about that.....im sure our city leaders are being smart about this.

[cityboi]

I have a theory on how much land the secret development could be on

the city manager said the project might just fit nicely on a sprawling collection of parcels on either side of Church Street and East Friendly Ave near the Children's Museum where the city, the weaver Foundation and Lincoln Financial own land. If they go for the largest plan which appears to be the case, they might build on multiple parcels of land. Of course they dont have to...the project can be more verticle if its on smaller acreage.

The two vertical adjoining sites were mentioned in the paper but I think the site to the left could come into play because the city manager mention sites on both sides of Church Street as well. Just left of the left site there are two parking decks, one of which is city owned. There is also a city parking deck to the left of the top parcel

[cityboi]

in comparison, check out Houston's main and largest entertainment complex. http://www.houstonpavilions.com. It was $170 million about $30 million less than the one proposed in Greensboro. The Houston complex includes

- 200,000 square feet of office space (office tower)

- 350,000 square feet of retail and entertainment anchored by 44,000 square foot House of Blues

Greensboro's project would be a little larger in scope with up to 230 condos, two luxury hotels with a total of 650 rooms, convention space, office space, entertainment and restaurants and possibly an IMAX. Greensboro would also have a cluster of highrises and midrises. So price wise in comparison to other complexes thats about right.

But in Greensboro its not really that fact that all these things being built downtown are surprising, its the nature of it (which we dont know) that will be surprising. The difference between Greensboro's potential complex and Houston's is that the one being proposed for Greensboro is supposed to be a southeast regional destination whereas the Houston complex is more of a local/regional complex. But it is surprising that Greensboro could have a larger complex than Houston, a much bigger city. But anyway looking at the Houston renderings, you can get a good idea how big this complex can get in Greensboro and the type of venues to expect to see. Most major entertainment complexs have movie theaters and upscale bowling alleys. Charlotte's planned EpiCentre also has a theater and upscale bowling alley (Lucky Strike Lanes). So yea we better all hope and pray this happens in Greensboro.

Here is Houston's downtown entertainment/retail/office complex. This complex covers 4 acres. Greensboros's could cover as little as 4 acres and as much as 10 acres. We still dont know the square footage of Greensboro's complex which is said to have a cluster of highrises and midrises. it should be alot covering that much land and taller type buildings.

The House of Blues

Here a an upscale bowling alley chain called Lucky Strike Lanes, which typically has a nice restaruant and bar with DJs on the weekends. Most major entertainment complex have them. Charlotte's EpiCenter is suppose to have a Lucky Strike Lanes as well. its very realistic we could see this in Greensboro's considering the cost and scope of the potential development. If this project happens I hope we do get something like this. It would be just another great place downtown to hang out with some friends, have a beer ot two and have some fun. you gotta have a few fun places to keep over 600 luxury hotel guests happy. In the words of DGI preisdent Ray Gibbs, "when plans are revealed peoples jaws are going to drop"

[ezcheese]

If Greensboro gets anything like this project, I think we will all be very happy.

[EW2003]

My gut feeling as that if this moves forward, it will be built next to First Horizon Park. I also think more than one high-rise could be a part of this development. Details still have not been released though. for example in the entertainment aspect of it, would it include a multiplex theater? or venues such as House of Blues? within the next 6 months we should find out.

I hope that it is next to the ballpark. after the bellemeade village or whatever it was fell through, that area is kinda falling apart. half of the houses look like they should be condemned soon. I hope they buy up all the land from that area down to Westerwood Tavern on guilford ave. all but one business on prescott is closed down and in disrepair.

Greensboro does need a new bar/restaurant district, and a nice hotel over looking the ballpark would be great and give visitors a good impression of greensboro!

I have a theory on how much land the secret development could be on

the city manager said the project might just fit nicely on a sprawling collection of parcels on either side of Church Street and East Friendly Ave near the Children's Museum where the city, the weaver Foundation and Lincoln Financial own land. If they go for the largest plan which appears to be the case, they might build on multiple parcels of land. Of course they dont have to...the project can be more verticle if its on smaller acreage.

The two vertical adjoining sites were mentioned in the paper but I think the site to the left could come into play because the city manager mention sites on both sides of Church Street as well. Just left of the left site there are two parking decks, one of which is city owned. There is also a city parking deck to the left of the top parcel

I dont really like that location for it because it is pretty close to the ghetto and will probably end up like four seasons mall. It needs to be either to the North or West of downtown

[cityboi]

There is a public housing development across Murrow Blvd called Cumberland Courts, not really a ghetto but I dont think the location is a factor. There is very little crime around there and the A&T Campus. Its certainly a safe area. But realisticly of all the 4 for sites I think its either going to be this site or the site next to the ballpark. But the Duke Power land might be cheaper than the land next to the ballpark so based on that they could go with the Duke Power site. That ballpark has driven up land value on the northwest side of town.

[jervais]

I hope that it is next to the ballpark. after the bellemeade village or whatever it was fell through, that area is kinda falling apart. half of the houses look like they should be condemned soon. I hope they buy up all the land from that area down to Westerwood Tavern on guilford ave. all but one business on prescott is closed down and in disrepair.

Greensboro does need a new bar/restaurant district, and a nice hotel over looking the ballpark would be great and give visitors a good impression of greensboro!

I dont really like that location for it because it is pretty close to the ghetto and will probably end up like four seasons mall. It needs to be either to the North or West of downtown

The reverse could happen... that area may completely change as a result of new developement

[cityboi]

The reverse could happen... that area may completely change as a result of new developement

The thing about the Duke Power site is that its much closer to Elm Street, particularly if the development also goes on the parking lot next to Governors court all the way to Davie Street, so the entertainment on Elm ties together better between the new potential development. I think this particular development being closer to Elm makes sure thats its not two seperate competing entertainment districts. With this entertainment project being so big with very significant entertainment venues, if its too far away from Elm Street, it may hurt everything thats successfully happened on Elm Street. Keep this project close to Elm Street. Im not saying that there shouldnt be entertainment near the ballpark because a few nightclubs, bars and restaurants next to the ballpark is a good idea. Its just the MAJOR entertainment developments need to be closer to Elm Street. because thats where the "heart" is and we want to make sure Elm Street stays active. Also there would be a skyline disconnect (gap) with any highrise cluster built on the Bellmeade site next to the ballpark. But if and when this development is built, it will change downtown Greensboro for ever, and for the better.

[blburton]

I agree. The last thing we want to see is Elm St and Greene St backslide as a result of this new development being built directly adjacent to the ball park. Hell, when you think about much larger cities, nightlife can be several city blocks away from major sporting venues and fans are forced to walk the 5 or 6 blocks for bars/clubs after games. I think the foot traffic across and through downtown will keep more of the true core lively as opposed to making the ballpark the center of downtown nightlife.

The thing about the Duke Power site is that its much closer to Elm Street, particularly if the development also goes on the parking lot next to Governors court all the way to Davie Street, so the entertainment on Elm ties together better between the new potential development. I think this particular development being closer to Elm makes sure thats its not two seperate competing entertainment districts. With this entertainment project being so big with very significant entertainment venues, if its too far away from Elm Street, it may hurt everything thats successfully happened on Elm Street. Keep this project close to Elm Street. Im not saying that there shouldnt be entertainment near the ballpark because a few nightclubs, bars and restaurants next to the ballpark is a good idea. Its just the MAJOR entertainment developments need to be closer to Elm Street. because thats where the "heart" is and we want to make sure Elm Street stays active. Also there would be a skyline disconnect (gap) with any highrise cluster built on the Bellmeade site next to the ballpark. But if and when this development is built, it will change downtown Greensboro for ever, and for the better.

[cityboi]

definately. The ballpark is just so isolated from Elm Street. I just think we dont have to have very big entertainment attractions next to the ballpark. Its ok to have some entertainment but the ballpark is already the primary entertainment focus for that corner of downtown. I think if we compact too much stuff next to that ballpark, traffic and parking is going to be horendous, especially during game times. build this on the Duke Power site where there is closer parking in the city decks. The baseball stadium is the entertainment anchor for the northwest corner of downtown. Let this project be the anchor for the Northeast corner of downtown.

[cityboi]

Another reason why the Duke Power site is best is because the development will have hotel/convention facilities and it makes sense the have facilities like this within walking distance of the museums. The center-city park would be just a block away. The city manager did hint that the developers have shown interest in the former Duke Power site.

factoring in everything, this is the most logical site in my opinion. The city manger believes so as well.

[kmurphy19662003]

Don't look now, but according to the Triangle Business Journal, plans have been announced for a $300 million entertainment development in Raleigh.

[cityboi]

Don't look now, but according to the Triangle Business Journal, plans have been announced for a $300 million entertainment development in Raleigh.

Oh yea. I saw a post about that on SSC. Looks like a cool development. Looks like Charlotte, Raleigh and maybe Greensboro wil have entertainment complexes. Greensboro's would have more of a southeast regional draw rather than a local draw.

here is the rendering of the Raleigh development.

[kmurphy19662003]

My worry is that the Raleigh entertainent development will overshadow the greensboro development . If they sign some of the same tenants, why would people from the triangle drive to greensboro???? It is $300 million, no small potato!

[blueJ]

My worry is that the Raleigh entertainent development will overshadow the greensboro development . If they sign some of the same tenants, why would people from the triangle drive to greensboro???? It is $300 million, no small potato!

Long time lurker ... 1st time poster -

If what Gibbs has said about this big mamma is true then we needn't be too concerned about the Raleigh development. I'm convinced that the final price will exceed $200 million dollars. I think we are all going to be blown away at the size and scope of this project. "Project X" will become Greensboro's field of dreams - "if you build it, they will come". It should be the catalyst that kicks downtown Greensboro into a gear its never seen. Don't be surprised to hear several additional announcments of MAJOR supporting projects shortly after this one is revealed. This development has the potiental to quickly lead downtown Greensboro to become a major southeast entertainment and cultural destination. I'm not saying that boardings at PTI will spike upwards (though it will help), but when you obtain the right mix of entertainment venues, restaurants, and lodging in a downtown district - it becomes a magnet for development ...

-Iron sharpens Iron ...