3rd Ward Midrise Projects

[rockhilljames]

Is it me or did the office tower get taller or did Catalyst get shorter in that rendering. I know office floors are taller than residential but geeze, they almost look the same height.

[Mobuchu]

Twelve looks huge from that angle. I'm liking the setbacks near the top, kinda Manhattanesque...

Edited January 14, 2008 by Mobuchu

[83alphaunder]

Is it me or did the office tower get taller or did Catalyst get shorter in that rendering. I know office floors are taller than residential but geeze, they almost look the same height.

If you draw a line off of 440 S. Church's church street side at the top, catalyst still has about 5 floors of height on the office tower. Its just perspective playing tricks on ur eyes.

Edited January 14, 2008 by 83alphaunder

[HopHead]

Do we have any guestimates on the height of the office tower, condo tower and TWELVE?

[uptownliving]

Office Building - 290 ft

Catalyst - 340 ft

TWELVE - 460 ft

[atlrvr]

Guesstimate only.

Office = 240'-250'

Catalyst = 300'-310'

Twelve = 370'-380' (and only 33 stories)

[HopHead]

Guesstimate only.

Office = 240'-250'

Catalyst = 300'-310'

Twelve = 370'-380' (and only 33 stories)

What makes you think that TWELVE will come down to 33 stories? Any insider info?

[atlrvr]

Nope...Trinity's website I believe says only 33, but that could be a typo. What has me wondering is the fact that Novare hasn't applied for its 2nd round of permitting...the last time they applied was in August of 2007. It seems odd that they would wait 5 months for a re-review. My money is on them scaling down, or at least waiting for pre-sales at Catalyst to start to gauge demand before moving ahead.

[HopHead]

Nope...Trinity's website I believe says only 33, but that could be a typo. What has me wondering is the fact that Novare hasn't applied for its 2nd round of permitting...the last time they applied was in August of 2007. It seems odd that they would wait 5 months for a re-review. My money is on them scaling down, or at least waiting for pre-sales at Catalyst to start to gauge demand before moving ahead.

Hmm, that's interesting. TWELVE is supposed to be both condos and hotel rooms right? Given the hotel shortage in uptown, wouldn't it make sense to maybe add hotel rooms if they take away condos? Given Novare's reputation, Catalyst should sell well...

[Raintree21]

Buchanan Street Partners of Newport Beach, CA has announced that it will invest $18.7 millino in 440 South Church because they see continued growth in Charlotte.

[grodney]

Pictures from yesterday.

More here: http://picasaweb.google.com/rodney.gardner/NovareProject

[atlrvr]

Buchanan Street Partners of Newport Beach, CA has announced that it will invest $18.7 millino in 440 South Church because they see continued growth in Charlotte.

Also from the article, it indicates a April 2008 start date.....they also hope to sign a "signature restaurant" to the retail space

[PwC Keith]

Awesome pictures everyone. I am truly amazed at the speed this project is going up. It looks like Novare should have Catalyst finished in time for Winter 2009 (which I assume to mean Jan/Feb 2009), but I'm wondering when they are going to start on the parking deck. I would think they'd have to finish that prior to letting residents move in.

My two questions are these 1) How long does a parking deck (of 8 to 9 stories) take to build? 2) Am I correct in assuming Winter 2009 means January/February and not Nov/Dec?

[Commoner]

Also from the article, it indicates a April 2008 start date.....they also hope to sign a "signature restaurant" to the retail space

Why the smug(?) face? What, exactly, does "signature" mean in this case? Are you reacting due to the restaurants featured in Novare developments in Atlanta (or elsewhere)? I don't have any preconceptions or expectations, whatsoever, but I'm curious as to what yours might be...

[83alphaunder]

Why the smug(?) face? What, exactly, does "signature" mean in this case? Are you reacting due to the restaurants featured in Novare developments in Atlanta (or elsewhere)? I don't have any preconceptions or expectations, whatsoever, but I'm curious as to what yours might be...

Not that I should speak for atlrvr but I think he is refering to the fact its gonna be another restaurant for downtown charlotte, not exactly something we need, nor something that can be a guage for retail success in downtown. I would personally love a clothing boutique.Not to mention this proejct promied a good amount of retail, and its great that we will get at least a grocery store and two restaurants out of it, but we need real retail to front the park, this block or so is supposed to be supported by some good retail.

Edited January 15, 2008 by 83alphaunder

[atlrvr]

I'm just tired of "signature restaurants" taking every ground floor space of every office building. I doubt this will be a Concentrics Brand, which will probably be in Twelve. I have no opinion of that brand, as I've never eaten at one. I would just like to see a men's or women's apparel store, or even an office supply store, or anything selling hard goods....

The high-end restaurant market in downtown is close to being over-built in my opinion....Wachovia is promising to bring a "Signature Restaurant" there, Concentrics will probably open 2 trendy restaurants (Avenue and 12), Ritz will certainly offer something exclusive, EpiCentre will have 2 pricey restaurants.....

Edit. ^ 83Alpha, you actually spoke pretty well for me

[HopHead]

I'm just tired of "signature restaurants" taking every ground floor space of every office building. I doubt this will be a Concentrics Brand, which will probably be in Twelve. I have no opinion of that brand, as I've never eaten at one. I would just like to see a men's or women's apparel store, or even an office supply store, or anything selling hard goods....

The high-end restaurant market in downtown is close to being over-built in my opinion....Wachovia is promising to bring a "Signature Restaurant" there, Concentrics will probably open 2 trendy restaurants (Avenue and 12), Ritz will certainly offer something exclusive, EpiCentre will have 2 pricey restaurants.....

Edit. ^ 83Alpha, you actually spoke pretty well for me

I agree that the high-end restaurants are overbuilt in uptown. Although you would almost expect TWELVE, Wachovia, etc to put in a few given the size of the development. By the same token, I think it would be a perfect opportunity to put a grocery store in that area. Maybe something like a Lowe's Foods, instead of HT. I'm not overly familiar with more than one LF in Charlotte. Is there some reason why they are in short supply?

[Justadude]

While I am also a little weary of restaurants being the "key" ground-level business in every development, I'm not so sure they're overbuilt. We're all in agreement that there is going to be a huge infusion of consumers in uptown very soon due to the number of condos, hotels, office buildings, and tourist attractions coming online. I would think that for every one or two hundred new consumers, there is a market for another restaurant (considering the existing ones are operating at a healthy rate). I can understand why developers are making the safe bet on these retail spaces, even if it irks me from an urban-development point of view.

[83alphaunder]

I agree that the high-end restaurants are overbuilt in uptown. Although you would almost expect TWELVE, Wachovia, etc to put in a few given the size of the development. By the same token, I think it would be a perfect opportunity to put a grocery store in that area. Maybe something like a Lowe's Foods, instead of HT. I'm not overly familiar with more than one LF in Charlotte. Is there some reason why they are in short supply?

A little while back one of the forumers confirmed that a grocery store was to be part of Catalyst, I think they said it was to be a Bloom

[Andyc545]

I agree that the high-end restaurants are overbuilt in uptown. Although you would almost expect TWELVE, Wachovia, etc to put in a few given the size of the development. By the same token, I think it would be a perfect opportunity to put a grocery store in that area. Maybe something like a Lowe's Foods, instead of HT. I'm not overly familiar with more than one LF in Charlotte. Is there some reason why they are in short supply?

Lowes Foods are not in short supply up here in the University Area. I have one out my window and another one in a 5-10 minute drive from here. They are very nice and I could certainly see uptown supporting one. They tend to be on the higher end side of a Harris Teeter and incorporates outside markets during the summer months. I think uptown could certainly appreciate the existance of one. Bloom would be well supportive, also, and I think that given the lower and mixed price points of Catalyst that the area could benefit from one of the major grochers- Bloom, Lowes Foods vs. another HT or some of the lower end grocery stores - Food Lion or the ultra high end grochers.

[PwC Keith]

Awesome pictures everyone. I am truly amazed at the speed this project is going up. It looks like Novare should have Catalyst finished in time for Winter 2009 (which I assume to mean Jan/Feb 2009), but I'm wondering when they are going to start on the parking deck. I would think they'd have to finish that prior to letting residents move in.

My two questions are these 1) How long does a parking deck (of 8 to 9 stories) take to build? 2) Am I correct in assuming Winter 2009 means January/February and not Nov/Dec?

Can anyone provide help with my question? Thanks in advance. Love reading the dialogue on here.

[Guest]

Can anyone provide help with my question? Thanks in advance. Love reading the dialogue on here.

2nd question first, Winter 09 does indeed mean January, February.

1st question second, We honestly won't know the answer to this question until they start construction, because as the saying goes, there is more than one way to skin a cat. Some Parking decks are Prefab, like the ones at met midtown, which makes the construction much faster, but much less good looking. However this is novare, who builds with some sort of quality in mind, so I'm thinking it will be poured in place. This process is much slower, but novare seems to have its act together, so I'm going to say it will be 2-3 weeks per floor, at the most.

[grodney]

One thing I'm curious about: The portable cranes and drills and auger bits are all gone. We watched them auger piling holes for weeks on Catalyst. Then saw them do the same, at least some, for the parking deck. But as far as I saw, they never did any for Twelve or the Office. I saw core drilling on both those sites, but nothing else.

Also, as info, there were people actively working on the Parking Deck site yesterday, as there are nearly every day. Don't know exactly what they're doing, but at least there's activity.

[Guest]

One thing I'm curious about: The portable cranes and drills and auger bits are all gone. We watched them auger piling holes for weeks on Catalyst. Then saw them do the same, at least some, for the parking deck. But as far as I saw, they never did any for Twelve or the Office. I saw core drilling on both those sites, but nothing else.

Also, as info, there were people actively working on the Parking Deck site yesterday, as there are nearly every day. Don't know exactly what they're doing, but at least there's activity.

Permitting has been approved for Catalyst (obviously) and the Parking Deck. Permitting for Twelve and the office tower is still going through. Once there is approval there will be construction. Honestly I think they are guaging the demand for 400 additional condos with twelve, before starting to build it.

[PwC Keith]

2nd question first, Winter 09 does indeed mean January, February.

1st question second, We honestly won't know the answer to this question until they start construction, because as the saying goes, there is more than one way to skin a cat. Some Parking decks are Prefab, like the ones at met midtown, which makes the construction much faster, but much less good looking. However this is novare, who builds with some sort of quality in mind, so I'm thinking it will be poured in place. This process is much slower, but novare seems to have its act together, so I'm going to say it will be 2-3 weeks per floor, at the most.

Thanks Nible. Your response was pretty close to my guesses.

As I was thinking about the parking deck more it dawned on me that this parking deck will be different than any other in uptown in that its not under or directly beside the actual condo, so I was wondering if anyone knew whether Novare might build an underground tunnel to connect the buildings and parking deck. I hope the center of the complex isn't under a tarp because that would ruin the view from people's balconies. Any thoughts?

My vote is nothing or underground tunnel.