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St. Paul's Quadrant (Phase 2-Under Construction)


Aughie

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  • 2 weeks later...

I drove down Fenchurch earlier today and most of Tidewater Gardens is gone, along with the midrise that sat on the corner of (Fen)church and Brambleton. I could barely tell what was what anymore. I'll try and take some pictures when I head back downtown tomorrow.

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I’m excited to finally see progress in SPQ— but these pictures illustrate why I always get so frustrated when people  say NFK doesn’t have enough developable land/ room to grow 

we now literally have acres upon acres to develop in SPQ and honestly there’s still decent room for infill in downtown proper which sort of has town feeling a bit desolate/ in transition 

now that the SPQ redevelopment is taking shape, it already feels like the city is planning for a glorified housing project filled with low income housing tax credit 2-3 story apartments with very limited retail/ commercial activity. I will wait to pass judgment while we see more proposals and construction ramps up— but for now, I am concerned we will waste this opportunity to really create something dynamic in NFK and until the perception of SPQ changes and can attract market-level investment and diverse populations, it will still be that sketch neighborhood adjacent to downtown with no urbanity or character or uniqueness about it—

 that land looks ripe for large-scale, mixed-use, development— if only we had the market dynamics to support such projects in SPQ… until then, we’ll keep taking baby steps 

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On 11/19/2021 at 12:21 PM, Norf Native said:

Anyone know anything about this?  This is on the ARB agenda for discussion 6 Dec.

 

968.png

Seems this item was mysteriously removed from the ARB agenda. An edited version of the agenda no longer has this on the docket, and thus, it was likely never discussed yesterday.

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On 12/4/2021 at 10:21 AM, NFKjeff said:

It has been stated many times that the type of development you are wanting in SPQ is precluded due to the nature of the development. The Federal Government granted  millions of dollars to the city to pay for planning and demolition. The city agreed to follow guidelines in order to secure those funds. This land, although becoming vacant must be developed in accordance to the guidelines.

Thats true but what we hoped for was to actully reach guide line limits. Its seems this is almost a minimum. You and I have seen that the buildings can be up to 5/6 stories too depending on first level parking but to have a bunch of 2 story developments is slightly disappointing given this is a major project made to grow Norfolk back into the shining city it once was.

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6 hours ago, mintscraft56 said:

Thats true but what we hoped for was to actully reach guide line limits. Its seems this is almost a minimum. You and I have seen that the buildings can be up to 5/6 stories too depending on first level parking but to have a bunch of 2 story developments is slightly disappointing given this is a major project made to grow Norfolk back into the shining city it once was.

I want high rises downtown as much as the next person, but the on-site replacement housing calls for affordable housing. Even with lumber price being what they are right now, it is still significantly more expensive to build steel frame buildings than it is wood frame buildings, and you can't really build higher than 5 (maybe 6) stories with wood frame. We will hopefully see taller buildings when more mixed-income and market-rate housing is proposed, but since the focus right now is on replacement housing for public housing residents, the majority of the buildings are going to be low- to midrise. 

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IIRC, Norfolk designated the plot over near Popeye's and the Catholic Church for business/high-rise development. Right now, they gotta put residents somewhere, so I understand why that's the top priority. And thanks to a recent settlement, there's a better chance of that happening.

https://www.pilotonline.com/government/local/vp-nw-st-pauls-settlement-20211206-hcto2nz2pnandaox7swspfzdfu-story.html

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4 hours ago, VBIllini13 said:

I want high rises downtown as much as the next person, but the on-site replacement housing calls for affordable housing. Even with lumber price being what they are right now, it is still significantly more expensive to build steel frame buildings than it is wood frame buildings, and you can't really build higher than 5 (maybe 6) stories with wood frame. We will hopefully see taller buildings when more mixed-income and market-rate housing is proposed, but since the focus right now is on replacement housing for public housing residents, the majority of the buildings are going to be low- to midrise. 

Not to derail the thread (hopefully), but you'd be amazed what they can do with wood nowadays.

https://www.cnn.com/style/article/wooden-skyscraper-revolution-timber/index.html

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  • 1 month later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Norfolk City Council voted Tuesday night to add more land to the St. Paul’s area revitalization area.

The areas include 645 Church Street (the former location of the Willis Building) at the corner of Church Street and Brambleton Avenue, and a “Future Block 9.”


Source: https://www.wavy.com/news/local-news/norfolk/norfolk-approves-addition-to-st-pauls-revitalization-project/?fbclid=IwAR0kFePEEBA46umwxFuz-o-DQfUJ3Y0CVQ3q5DFX4iPKM0jqNBDbyIVbXAg

The-additions-to-the-St.-Pauls-project.png

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  • 1 month later...

I don't know how anyone can look at those gigantic parking lots and think that's a good usage of space. Norfolk likes to talk a big game when it comes to walkability, but when given a blank slate to build whatever they want, they come up with an incredibly lackluster urban design.

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  • 3 months later...
  • 3 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...

The ARBs next regular meeting on Sept. 19th will be hyper focused on St Pauls redevelopment. From the agenda it states the following:

Continuation of the streetscape and housing design for St. Paul's Area - Tidewater Gardens. As the design
of the neighborhood moves east, the housing becomes smaller in scale, and diverse in type as it reaches
the Blue Greenway. We will review the design in a block-by-block order, in the following sequence:
Blocks 6, 5, 11, 4, 3B, 3A, 2

http://norfolkcityva.iqm2.com/Citizens/FileOpen.aspx?Type=1&ID=2074&Inline=True

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  • 1 month later...
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All residents of Tidewater Gardens have moved out, quite the milestone considering the contentious issues that arose. This last part caught my eye though.

https://www.pilotonline.com/government/local/vp-nw-tidewater-gardens-relocation-20221028-y2lfql3qynas5mrbxog5e26dfy-story.html

"There are no plans to redevelop Young Terrace and Calvert Square, according to the housing authority."

Really? Why? I don't see how half -@$$ing this is going to get us where we need to be. They need to redevelop the entire area.

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