Traffic Congestion and Highway Construction

[dcharlotte]

218 being described as a 'by pass' is laughable when considering there are long term trade goals to be achieved with increased trade from the Panama Canal.  Even if Panamax ships can't come into Wilmington, it is expected that the increased panamax ships will go to the new panamax ports leaving smaller vessels to dock at smaller ports due to the increased activity.  While ports are seeing their depth increased, many aren't seeing their actual capacity increase too much (aside from NY/NJ and Miami).

[Windsurfer]

218 being described as a 'by pass' is laughable when considering there are long term trade goals to be achieved with increased trade from the Panama Canal.  Even if Panamax ships can't come into Wilmington, it is expected that the increased panamax ships will go to the new panamax ports leaving smaller vessels to dock at smaller ports due to the increased activity.  While ports are seeing their depth increased, many aren't seeing their actual capacity increase too much (aside from NY/NJ and Miami).

Everything we import comes through Charleston. Compared to Charleston, Wilmington is a blip.

 

I think most people realize 218 isn't a bypass for trucks....that's why it's the best kept secret.

[dcharlotte]

Everything we import comes through Charleston. Compared to Charleston, Wilmington is a blip.

 

I think most people realize 218 isn't a bypass for trucks....that's why it's the best kept secret.

 

While a blip, getting goods to/from Charlotte, which is a regional distribution hub (much more important than Raleigh) takes a bit of time.  74 will help get goods to Greensboro faster than Charlotte without some of these transportation improvements.

 

Suburban growth will also make 218 a joke soon enough.

[southslider]

The joke is that you already had a bypass in US 74, but then sprawl clogged it up. No more driveways or signals should be allowed along any "bypass" project, so that investment may remain to function as a bypass.

[dubone]

The real problem in NC is that the state likes to build massive regional roads but does not invest in smaller roads that support urban growth in a better pattern.  This despite the state having that responsibility to build roads at all size levels.  But the prioritization process always favors bigger roads.   Charlotte, Greensboro, Raleigh, Shelby, Monroe, etc. all have excessively large regional thoroughfares that have become the major urban streets.     

 

YES, driveways should be limited on bypasses but the whole society was growing in a bad way in the 1970s.   Now we are 21st century citizens that finally have the design vocabulary to correct these horrible mistakes.   New inter-regional connections are necessary, but the state also needs to do a far better job of building more smaller urban streets so that growth can go in more reasonable place.  

[DCMetroRaleigh]

Hurry up already and build the Monroe Bypass. And the Wadesboro Bypass. They are talking and litigating this thing to death.

[cltbwimob]

A few thoughts on the Monroe Bypass...

 

1.  Politics makes strange bed fellows- Who would have ever thought that the Southern Environmental Law Center would have ever agreed with  David Hartegen or the good folks at the John Locke Foundation?

 

2.  Local politicians can be uninformed just like our state legislature- I talked to a local politician (to remain anonymous) about their vehement opposition to the bypass.  Said politician had never read the Governor's Logistics Task Force report, the NC Maritime Strategies report, or the Seven Portals study; 1200 pages worth of studies, all of which outlined the need for a freeway connection between Wilmington and Charlotte to promote the long term economic health of the state.  Of course, this politician was familiar with SELC propaganda.  Said politician also served on a local transportation planning board...why do I know more about local transportation issues than the politicians who make the decisions?

 

3.  Oh the Irony- I find it ironic that the five Union County towns that have come out against the bypass partially on the basis of it's potential to cause damage to the environment have some of the worst sprawl in the county.  One politician with whom I spoke specifically noted the loss of 500 acres (less than one square mile) of farmland; I wonder how many times said politician voted to allow a developer to decimate hundreds or thousands of acres of farmland/forest to build a cheap cookie-cutter subdivision.  I also find it interesting that of those towns, the bypass comes nowhere near three of the five.

 

4.  Tony Tata- He is probably the only official in the McCrory camp who I like.  I recently read some of the debate between the Southern Environmental Law Center and our Secretary of Transportation regarding the Bonner Bridge.  Based purely on substance, I think the SELC won the debate, however, Mr. Tata was successful in framing the SELC as an enemy of the people of the Outer Banks.  The SELC is seemingly much less popular on Hatteras Island than it is in Union County, and recently lost a court case regarding the Bonner Bridge.  It will be interesting to see if he can duplicate that strategy for the Monroe Bypass.  You do not make it to the rank of General without knowing how to outflank someone.

 

5.  A freeway connection between Charlotte and Wilmington is a necessity- NC loses a lot of potential benefits from having goods flow through other ports such as Charleston.  I recently read an article in the CBJ stating that Charlotte sends more goods through Wilmington than any other city in NC.  Due to the fact that Wilmington, unlike every other major port on the east coast, is only served by one Class 1 railroad, the ability to move trucks to and from the number one customer (Charlotte) is paramount.  However this need has been ignored.  It's time for decision makers to wake up and fix this problem.  A freeway connection between Charlotte and Wilmington, along with improved rail infrastructure, are vital to the state's success

[Third Strike]

^ I think creating a new interstate, running along existing US 74, would better help awareness and support for the bypass, and other US 74 freeway-related construction throughout the state. I think there would be different opinions, if say the Monroe Bypass was a new segment for a hypothetical I-42, rather than a toll highway that's only purpose is to bypass the city of Monroe, and to help local congestion on the existing US 74 (which it may or may not do).

 

In hindsight, I-74 should have been routed down I-77 to either the eastern half of I-485 or down Indy Boulevard (latter would be more expensive, since they would have to upgrade from limited-access to full control-access), to US 74 heading east to Wilmington (and not the odd turn-around to Myrtle Beach).

[cltbwimob]

^ I think creating a new interstate, running along existing US 74, would better help awareness and support for the bypass, and other US 74 freeway-related construction throughout the state. I think there would be different opinions, if say the Monroe Bypass was a new segment for a hypothetical I-42, rather than a toll highway that's only purpose is to bypass the city of Monroe, and to help local congestion on the existing US 74 (which it may or may not do).

 

In hindsight, I-74 should have been routed down I-77 to either the eastern half of I-485 or down Indy Boulevard (latter would be more expensive, since they would have to upgrade from limited-access to full control-access), to US 74 heading east to Wilmington (and not the odd turn-around to Myrtle Beach).

I agree with every single point. There is currently a push to turn the entire US-74 corridor into an interstate from Wilmington to I-26, although I do not know how much traction it has. The following page on the NCDOT website mentions the idea:

http://www.ncdot.gov/projects/us74bypass/

[AuLukey]

Hell, just run a spur from 485 (or the Monroe Bypass) to I-74.  Let it meet up with I-74 in Rockingham.  And then run another spur from 95 to Wilmington.  Look to the mid-west for examples of spurs much longer than that.  It could gain some traction here.  It is rather sad that NC's largest port only has an interstate connection to Raleigh.  That should be an argument in itself.

[49er]

Part of the rub locally is that Charlotte and Matthews in Mecklenburg are painfully converting to a expressway style road with zero future stoplights while Union County is keeping all the stoplights and sprawl. To me, its kind of like how 485 is completely in Mecklenburg thus all the destruction and loss of land for the roadway was shouldered by us while some of the biggest benefactors are Cabarrus, Union, Lancaster, etc.  

[southslider]

^If only Independence were a full expressway, instead of a hybrid arterial-expressway with ineffective driveways.

[Spartan]

I keep seeing "managed lanes" in there when referring to 77 widening south of uptown. Are those toll lanes? Seems kind of dumb to me to widen 77 and only had toll lanes without any more general purpose lanes.

 

Managed lanes are toll lanes with dynamic pricing that guarantees travel time. So, during rush hour it may cost (just making up numbers here) $3/mile while at 3am it could cost $25 cents. This would only be for the one lane. The rest of 77 would be general purpose lanes.

 

 

When completed, the northwest arc of I-485 from I-85 near Concord to I-77 near Fort Mill should take a lot of pressure off mainline 77 and 85, shouldn't it? These are some well-planned bypasses in that they don't add much distance at all. Or are the new sections of 485 already packed with traffic?

 

Yes. I-485 should take some pressure off of the mainlines north of center city, but probably not enough to remove the need to widen 77. It will take a lot more pressure off of Harris, Mallard Creek Church/Prosperity Church, Eastfield, and Mallard Creek Roads. They are building tons of extra capacity with 4 thru-lanes in each direction, so I wouldn't worry about a 485 south situation anytime soon, at least not in our lifetime.

 

 

In other related road news, NCDOT has released a list of projects that will be funded before 2025 in the Charlotte region:

 

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/news/documents/2014/05/16/hwy_clt_projects.pdf

 

It's important to note that this list is preliminary. The final list could change based on local input.

[mjcatl2]

Has the state ever considered a toll road from Wilmington to Asheville - essentially a turnpike?

 

As mentioned before, a toll road (with properly limited access) would limit sprawl and the same time provide good east-west access. Additiionally, it would have funding built in. I just find it amazing that in 2014 there isn't a completed road running between those two cities and Charlotte....

[southslider]

^I-40 already connects mountains to beach via Metrolina.

[kickazzz2000]

^I-40 already connects mountains to beach via Metrolina.

 

Try google mapping Asheville to Wilmington.  Tell me if 40 through Raleigh even comes up as a top 3 option.

[mjcatl2]

I-40 already connects mountains to beach via Metrolina.

 

 

I wasn't explicit in saying this since this is the Charlotte forum, but I meant a route through Charlotte.

[southslider]

Statesville is part of the Charlotte metro.

[grodney]

Try google mapping Asheville to Wilmington.  Tell me if 40 through Raleigh even comes up as a top 3 option.

 

Not when I do it.  (3:40pm on a Tuesday)

 

I get:

- Through Columbia 26, 20, 95, 74 - 5:04 without traffic, currently 5:21

- 40, 321, 74 - 5:07 without traffic, currently 5:47

- 26, 74 - 5:08 without traffic, currently 5:51

 

40 through Raleigh says 5:23 without traffic, 5:41 currently.  So it must sort by "no traffic" times.  Sort-of oddly.

[rugger62]

So the longest route is the fastest... 

- Through Columbia 26, 20, 95, 74 - 5:04 without traffic, currently 5:21

- 40, 321, 74 - 5:07 without traffic, currently 5:47

- 26, 74 - 5:08 without traffic, currently 5:51

 

 

 

a - 359 miles 

b - 327 miles

c - 325 miles 

 

I'm surprised discussion hasn't started around this I-77 story from the Observer. Probably freindlier discussion than the current 74 discussion.

[southslider]

But NCDOT wants Charlotteans to vacation in the other Carolina.

[Spartan]

Has the state ever considered a toll road from Wilmington to Asheville - essentially a turnpike?

 

As mentioned before, a toll road (with properly limited access) would limit sprawl and the same time provide good east-west access. Additiionally, it would have funding built in. I just find it amazing that in 2014 there isn't a completed road running between those two cities and Charlotte....

 

Why do we need this? 74 is a pretty solid option. Except for Shelby and Union County it's basically a 'freeway'

[mjcatl2]

 

Except for Shelby and Union County it's basically a 'freeway'

 

I asked exactly because of the "exceptions." Shouldn't the biggest metro in the state have direct limited access east and west? Shouldn't 74 have been considered as that route long ago and been upgraded as such?

[AuLukey]

I asked exactly because of the "exceptions." Shouldn't the biggest metro in the state have direct limited access east and west? Shouldn't 74 have been considered as that route long ago and been upgraded as such?

Of course not!  It doesn't go through Raleigh...

[15895]

Of course not! It doesn't go through Raleigh...

And loop around, zig zag, have multiple spurs, a 74A and 74B through the Triad