Traffic Congestion and Highway Construction

[Miesian Corners]

$800m for a 30 minute time saver to the beach doesn't seem like a good use of resources.  And to all the people ecstatic that live out there, all that road will mean is more development and then they'll be back to the same spot they are now in 15 years.  Maybe they can make a Monroe Bypass Bypass then.  

 

Like melk said, put that dough toward the Silver line, or heck build a commuter line out to Monroe.  Encourage healthy urban growth!  This thing will just build sprawl.

 

 

ProjectMap.pdf

I have to disagree with you.  Independence/Roosevelt boulevards are stop and go for 18 miles.  It's needed.  I'm from SC and have to drive this POS every time I go home to visit my mom/family.  It's god-awful.  It should not take 2 hours to drive 63 miles. Like it or not, freeways are here to stay and are paramount to keeping our distribution economy going.

 

Besides, Union County will implode on itself regardless of whether or not this is built.  It's running out of water.

[Third Strike]

In other related road news, NCDOT has released a list of projects that will be funded before 2025 in the Charlotte region:

 

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/news/documents/2014/05/16/hwy_clt_projects.pdf

[Norm2]

In other related road news, NCDOT has released a list of projects that will be funded before 2025 in the Charlotte region:

 

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/news/documents/2014/05/16/hwy_clt_projects.pdf

I keep seeing "managed lanes" in there when referring to 77 widening south of uptown. Are those toll lanes? Seems kind of dumb to me to widen 77 and only had toll lanes without any more general purpose lanes.

[southslider]

^what's good for 77 North is good for 77 South (and 74 East, too). Welcome to the future of managed capacity, not endless widening projects.

[Niner National]

 

Besides, Union County will implode on itself regardless of whether or not this is built.  It's running out of water.

They secured a water contract with the town of Norwood last year. It is a 60 year deal that allows them to pull water from Lake Tillery.

 

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/07/07/4149086/union-county-lands-long-term-water.html#.U3oMJoFdXCo

Edited May 19, 2014 by Niner National

[49er]

I'm kind of ambivalent toward the Monroe Bypass but I would like to add that we all should take a broad look at the reasoning behind it. NCDOT is attempting to create a true east-west freeway/interstate, statewide, without stoplights. It's not just beach traffic (like me!) but transportation, connections to the port at Wilmington, etc. The Charlotte region is kind of the choke point for travelers and truckers. I hope the fact that it is limited access and a toll road prevents some sprawl and hopefully Union County enacts tough zoning standards for the interchanges. I've recently realized NCDOT's big vision of tolls beginning in Marshville all the way to downtown Charlotte or from Marshville to Matthews to Pineville to I-77 North through downtown and points North. Anyway, much more merit to this than the Garden Parkway. At least it is part of a system.  

[orulz]

When completed, the northwest arc of I-485 from I-85 near Concord to I-77 near Fort Mill should take a lot of pressure off mainline 77 and 85, shouldn't it? These are some well-planned bypasses in that they don't add much distance at all. Or are the new sections of 485 already packed with traffic?

[dubone]

I don't take eastbound trips that often, but I absolutely think it is an inevitability and necessary to have upgraded freeways or expressways from Hendersonville to Wilmington on US 74.  It's not the most important corridor in the state, but it is an obvious gap and with urban (sprawl) growth in Union, it is necessary to bypass with a real motorway.  

 

I also think tolls are vastly better for roads at risk of encouraging sprawl, such as the Monroe Bypass, and widenings of 77 to Iredell and 485 in Ballantyne.   As I have said before I think the HOT lanes are brilliant solutions as it allows a permanent free route while the additional capacity does not have the moral hazard of completely subsidizing development patterns that create the congestion in the first place.  

 

Then, at least if they do, the toll revenues fund their own infrastructure and there is money for the next set of improvements.

 

The 10 year/2025 priority list is very impressive and very obvious in a way.  But it is good at least that it represents hopefully a shift to allowing urban infrastructure to get funded over rural regions.   

 

Independence is a no-brainer and hopefully by putting in the funding list and combining with GARVEE bonds it will actually get completed within the decade.   Combined with the Monroe Bypass, that will be a big deal in the region.  

[southslider]

What is missing from the list is the widening of any state highways other than expressways. For example, neither Steele Creek Rd (NC 160) in Southwest Charlotte nor Statesville Rd (US 21) in North Mecklenburg is included.

[Miesian Corners]

They secured a water contract with the town of Norwood last year. It is a 60 year deal that allows them to pull water from Lake Tillery.

 

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/07/07/4149086/union-county-lands-long-term-water.html#.U3oMJoFdXCo

I missed that. The only saving grace is that it still doesn't have the expanded capacity for sewer and its soils in a huge part of the county don't perk for septic tanks.  

Edited May 19, 2014 by Miesian Corners

[rugger62]

In other related road news, NCDOT has released a list of projects that will be funded before 2025 in the Charlotte region:

 

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/news/documents/2014/05/16/hwy_clt_projects.pdf

So how do these stack up priority-wise against other projects in the state, since this is on the Charlotte list. Are we going to get the normal state gvmt jerk-fest that always happens to Charlotte?

[Third Strike]

So how do these stack up priority-wise against other projects in the state, since this is on the Charlotte list. Are we going to get the normal state gvmt jerk-fest that always happens to Charlotte?

 

Many of those projects were ranked fairly high. The Triangle region had more stuff in the top slots, however.

[cowboy_wilhelm]

However, I still can't figure out who managed to get the $370 million US 64 Asheboro bypass to be let this year as a design-build project (since you need to connect a two-lane country road to a freeway), or why the US 74 Shelby bypass started construction last year and won't be finished before 2030.

 

 

For the Asheboro bypass, traffic does get pretty bad on US64 through Asheboro- just as bad as through Shelby. The US64-NC49 corridor is supposed to be improved quite a lot and become a main route between Raleigh and Charlotte.

 

Well, my point wasn't that Asheboro doesn't need a bypass. Both will help me tremendously. My point is both towns are nearly identical in population, traffic counts, and the type of commercial development along the facility leading to a low level of service. U.S. 74 has full control of access highway spurs on each side of Shelby between I-26 and I-85. U.S. 64 is two lanes and four/five lanes, undivided each side of Asheboro. The Shelby bypass is going to take 15+ years to construct based on the current funding. Asheboro is being done in four. Maybe when the Charlotteans figure out why I-485 took this long to finish they can help me figure it out.

[AuLukey]

I firmly believe that the Monroe Bypass is a great improvement for the Charlotte metro at large.  Charlotte is relatively landlocked without leaving the state or going around your arse to reach the beach without sitting in traffic.  This may not mean a lot to some, but for people up North, having a faster route to the beaches in the south may increase some appeal.  On the other hand, businesses will have much easier access to a growing port.  While that may not draw in much attention from the financial sector, it should help Charlotte widen its horizons in blue collar jobs.  Having a complete freeway system from Charlotte to Wilmington will be a win-win for both cities.  If managed properly, it could encourage growth (not sprawl) of some of the smaller towns along the way.  The benefit of having a good tollway system is that it gives rise to more tollways, further increasing the connectivity in our state.  Bring on putting tolls on I-95!

[dubone]

Charlotte is 217 miles to Carolina Beach at 4:10h drive and 217 miles to Sullivans Island and Folly beach at 3:10 drive right now at 10:30am on a Wednesday.   Charleston-area beaches are the exact same distance as Wilmington-area beaches, but take 25% less time and significantly less driving stress to get there.  

 

Now add in Monroe traffic and Wilmington-area beaches are another 30-60 minutes farther away.

 

 

It all means that most of the tourism from Charlotte to the nearest beach will be to Charleston-area beaches and that money leaves the state.  Same goes for freight for the ports.  It is a no-brainer to favor Charleston without a proper freeway.  

[CLTProductions]

Charlotte is 217 miles to Carolina Beach at 4:10h drive and 217 miles to Sullivans Island and Folly beach at 3:10 drive right now at 10:30am on a Wednesday.   Charleston-area beaches are the exact same distance as Wilmington-area beaches, but take 25% less time and significantly less driving stress to get there.  

 

Now add in Monroe traffic and Wilmington-area beaches are another 30-60 minutes farther away.

 

 

It all means that most of the tourism from Charlotte to the nearest beach will be to Charleston-area beaches and that money leaves the state.  Same goes for freight for the ports.  It is a no-brainer to favor Charleston without a proper freeway.  

No way does it take 4 hours to drive to Carolina Beach, I've done that drive in closer to 3:15h

[dubone]

At your speed you could make it to Folly at 2.5 then? 

 

You may not be counting from downtown?   It shows 30 minutes extra for traffic right now, which is just yellow in a few spots.   At Friday 5p, its a much bigger traffic bonus from my experience.  

[nonillogical]

No way does it take 4 hours to drive to Carolina Beach, I've done that drive in closer to 3:15h

I know this is a ways up the coast, but it took me 6 hours to get to Emerald Isle on a Thursday evening. So about 4:15 to Wilmington, not even the beach. I'm not a slow driver, and it took almost 1.5 hours to get to Monroe from uptown. 

Edited May 21, 2014 by nonillogical

[CLTProductions]

At your speed you could make it to Folly at 2.5 then? 

 

You may not be counting from downtown?   It shows 30 minutes extra for traffic right now, which is just yellow in a few spots.   At Friday 5p, its a much bigger traffic bonus from my experience.  

I live downtown, thats where I am coming from, I get to folly in around the same time. They are almost exactly the same, but yeah true traffic as a factor its probably different.

[dubone]

Well, for purposes of comparison:

 

Charlotte, NC to Folly Beach, SC (217 miles):

- 206 miles (95%) are interstate freeways

 

Charlotte, NC to Kure Beach, NC (217 miles):

- 65 miles (30%) are interstate freeways

- add 19 miles (8.7%) for the Monroe Bypass when done

 

Regardless of how fast it may have been done under perfect conditions, there is no way that the routes compare favorably to each other given dozens of signals, driveways, lower speed limits, and slow towns on unimproved US 74.   Thankfully they've at least widened it all from 1 lane/direction, but still no comparison with interstate with a 70mph speed limits.   

 

My main point is that once they finish some key upgrades and bypasses it will start to be more even.  Because I don't believe that I would be willing to go that far over the speed limits to even them out myself.  

[orulz]

Well, for purposes of comparison:

 

Charlotte, NC to Folly Beach, SC (217 miles):

- 206 miles (95%) are interstate freeways

 

Charlotte, NC to Kure Beach, NC (217 miles):

- 65 miles (30%) are interstate freeways

- add 19 miles (8.7%) for the Monroe Bypass when done

Regardless of how fast it may have been done under perfect conditions, there is no way that the routes compare favorably to each other given dozens of signals, driveways, lower speed limits, and slow towns on unimproved US 74.   Thankfully they've at least widened it all from 1 lane/direction, but still no comparison with interstate with a 70mph speed limits.   

 

My main point is that once they finish some key upgrades and bypasses it will start to be more even.  Because I don't believe that I would be willing to go that far over the speed limits to even them out myself.

Although there are many at grade intersections, by Google Maps I count a total of three traffic signals on US74 east of Wadesboro (Two in Laurel Hill and one in Sandy Creek.) This is about 146 miles.

There are a bunch of signals in the 42 miles between I-485 and Wadesboro, and this is is probably the portion of the corridor with the most traffic, so obviously this area needs attention. But once this is done, I think the state should call it "good enough" as far as major bypasses are concerned. Converting intersections to interchanges or grade separations as future traffic warrants may well be enough for the next few decades.

[dubone]

Mercy, I didn't realize this was a controversial statement.   But yes, I think we are generally in agreement, as my real/original point is that once you address the Charlotte-area issues, it does bring the major impediment to going east to Wilmington/NC Beaches much closer to the current standard of going south Charleston/SC Beaches.  

 

Currently:

- 10 lights on Independence

- Hopefully to be funded within 11 years for conversion to expressway.

- 26 lights from 485 to Marshville

- Addressed by the Monroe Bypass project

- 5 in Marshville

- No project addresses this

- 7 in Wadesboro

- This was supposed to be addressed by the Wadesboro bypass but has been removed as a project.  

- The 3 that Orulz counted between Wadesboro and Wilmington 

 

 

The issues will be mostly resolved with the obvious improvements in Mecklenburg and Union.  Anson is still a PITA with two smaller towns with 12 lights and low speed limits, but at least there is not congestion on those places, so it is not a terrible slowdown.

 

Regardless, there is absolutely no way it is equivalent to 70mph fully signed interstate. And even without the signals, speeding at 70 mph on ~100 miles of non-limited access US74 means that cars and trucks (and pedestrians) could be crossing randomly so it is a much higher safety risk and driver stress.  Still, it will be vastly better than it has been.    

 

I'll stop there, because I go to Florida and Caribbean beaches by airplane, so I will bow out of the debate now.  

[rugger62]

For anyone going to Rockingham, Fayetteville, Wilmington or any other points due east on 74, a bypass already exists. It's called Hwy 218 and it is 9000% better than taking 74 thru Monroe even if you get stuck behind a tractor for a little while. The only time I will take 74 thru Monroe is early in the morning on a weekend, otherwise it isn't worth the hassle to deal with all of the lights and the traffic.

 

Now it doesn't work for commercial traffic, but you need to add it to your bag of tricks if you want to be a real Charlottean!

 

Heck, I live in South Charlotte now, and I'll still take 485 the extra few miles up to 218.

 

On a side note, anyone from the south side ever go 521 to 9 to get to Myrtle? I have never done that route, but it looks like it might be decent.

[Bikeguy]

^ all the time. not only does it save time, it also still allows you the oppourtunity to stop by McLeods Peaches in McBee !!

[dubone]

Awe.   Such a cute lil world class city we have here.   

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.13384,-80.450364,3a,75y,149.21h,64.61t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sFQAIzy0S4PFtiMLpu7pnDg!2e0

 

 

Yes 218 is a good rural bypass until it is discovered by a majority of people going from Charlotte to Wilmington.  Luckily it is very hard to force google maps to even show that routing because the road is so tiny.  

 

It is still not proper infrastructure for going from the largest city in a state to that state's largest port and beach region.