Traffic Congestion and Highway Construction

[Third Strike]

Updated pic of the I-485/85 interchange. Only about over a year left for this and the rest of I-485 to be completed.

 

[go_vertical]

Does anyone know if the North Community House bridge was planned to be built alongside the 485 widening? That would be the logical way to go about it but I think I remember reading something about that being a completely separate project. Needless to say it doesn't look like anything has been done so far.

[southslider]

^The Ballantyne TIF ended up covering the Community House bridge.  Otherwise, NCDOT wasn't going to build it.

[Urbanity]

Last night was the last community input meeting re: widening 77 from Brookshire in Uptown to Exit 28 in Cornelius by adding two toll  lanes in each direction and then going down to one toll lane in each direction between Cornelius an Mooresville.

 

One thing I do like is that there will be no toll booths, but cameras to catch people who illegally travel the lanes.

 

The contractor is suppose to be chosen next month.

Edited July 19, 2013 by Urbanity

[MilZ]

As a reverse commuter to Mooresville from Charlotte, this cannot happen soon enough.  I hope "Widen I-77" doesn't find more ways to delay this process.

 

I get your arguments, you lost. Let's get this long (LONNNNNG) construction project underway.

[dubone]

The mindset that causes so many people to oppose both the toll lanes and transit lines is that they view freeway expansion as an inevitibability in all cases.   It usually is, and usually finds funding without issue.  It is only in recent times with increased auto efficiency and political unwillingness to raise the gas tax to maintain revenue that funding is suddenly scarce for freeway expansion.    The type of people that have based on their lives on this inevitibality, buying suburban homes in places where the road system is significantly under capacity, are now suddenly shocked by the change and don't understand why the powers that be are robbing them of what they view as their perceived entitlement.   It is the same thing that came up in Ballantyne regarding 485, and in LKN regarding 77.   The bureaucrats need to solve the real transportation needs with real budgets and real ideas and create policies and projects like bikeways, sidewalks, transit, toll lanes, density, connectivity and all the things we discuss on UP and EVERY one of them have a large segment of the population that opposes them, because they don't realize that freeway expansion and exurban growth is no longer an inevitability nor good for society.

 

Thankfully, those people are losing. 

[allthingsplanes]

I'll say it again - I don't understand the people who are adamantly against the toll lanes.  They would still have 2 "free" lanes on which to drive, and that's even if they don't carpool.  So would they rather NO additional lanes instead of 2 toll lanes?

[dubone]

No, they want 4, 6, 8, 10, 100 lanes that are free.   These people believe that a freeway expansion is inevitable and the funding will magically appear once the need (traffic) shows up.  It is the undertone to so many counter arguments to rational pursuit of more efficient urban infrastructure.   (Transit is bad, 'just expand the highway to the suburbs'). 

 

I have actually had this discussion with numerous people in real life, because many of my more conservative colleagues live up near LKN.  "Why are they doing all this crazy stuff instead of just expanding the freeway?"  "There is not enough money and there are more efficient alternatives" "Why is the money not there when there is so much traffic, that is bad planning"  .... 

[utcharlotte]

I think the greater issue lost to most is the privatization of roads (or infrastructure) in America.  These lanes are often built with agreements that NO other road improvements can be made for quite a number of years (75+).  Of course these roads are going to turn a profit with the suburban growth and high demand for road capacity.  The real question is, do we want to turn these profits over to a private company, or do we want to turn the tolls over to a toll authority within the state that can then manage further expansion of roads or other transportation options?  The state is about to enter into a massive agreement to give away a large portion of right of way for profit - that's an issue.

 

Look to Ohio, Illinois, and Virginia for how some of these contracts work out in real time.  While they provide additional capacity, citizens should read between the lines.  "Managed lanes that keep things congestion free" means high toll prices, and profit.  

 

As long as people work in one centralized location and there is a high demand to get to that location at any single time, there will be congestion.  You cannot build your way out of congestion with freeways, transit, sidewalks, bike lanes, or any other mode of transportation - congestion is part of living in a city plain and simple.

[tozmervo]

It would be fun to respond to your LKN colleagues that, yes, your neighborhood is the result of poor planning and see what they say.

[Third Strike]

So, an environmental law group has proposed that instead of building the Monroe bypass, the state should consider converting US-74 into a "system of new superstreets", including eliminating left turns and better coordination of street lights.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/blog/outside_the_loop/2013/07/monroe-bypass-alternative--.html

 

How do you guys feel about this proposal? I still think the bypass is a better idea, in the long run...

[Matthew.Brendan]

They should do both.

[dubone]

They absolutely should make rational efficiency improvements to 74 in Monroe.  I'm not sure that will come close to solving the intercity mobility concerns when heading east-west in this state outside of the I40 corridor.  

[DCMetroRaleigh]

That alternative is weak sauce, if meant to replace the Monroe Bypass. The point is that U.S. 74 needs to be essentially an interstate from Asheville to Wilmington.

[CLTNative]

I may have missed this, anyone have details on the massive flyover from 77 to Brookshire?

[jednc]

I may have missed this, anyone have details on the massive flyover from 77 to Brookshire?

This is the first I'm hearing about it. Where did your info come from?

[southslider]

77 HOT lanes

[dubone]

I saw a detailed map a year ago or so, but in the 277 meetings with NCDOT and CDOT, they said it was preliminary and not definite.

 

I can't find the uber-detailed map at the moment, but here are some links to some info but the 3rd link does have some maps beginning page 14.

 

http://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i77HOTLanes/

 

http://ww.charmeck.org/fastlanes/

 

http://www.mumpo.org/PDFs/I-77/I-77_HOT_HOV_Lanes/I-77_HOV_HOT_FeasibilityStudy.pdf

 

 

 

But there is also a more long range concept of a Brookshire flyover near 77 for the 277 study.

[drumsy]

An update on I-85/I-485: 

 

• The semi-temporary off/on ramp from southbound 85 to the 485 inner loop is now operating.
• The permanent off/on ramp from northbound 85 to the 485 inner loop is now operating.
• The temporary off/on ramp from the outer loop of 485 to southbound 85 is now operating.  That ramp crosses across the 485 inner loop (previously oncoming traffic lines) and shares an overpass with southbound 84 to 485 traffic, similar to how it previously operated.
• With the shift a couple of weeks ago for southbound 85 traffic north of Exit 55 (73), all 85 traffic now travels on newly constructed highway.  There is no longer any part of "old" 85 left to travel on that is part of the current construction project.

[drumsy]

Another update on I-85/I-485

• The permanent off/on ramp from the 485 inner loop to 85 northbound is now operating.

With that change, the old I-85/I-485 interchange is now completely out of commission.

[15895]

^ it seems like it eased traffic congestion also

[utcharlotte]

Another update on I-85/I-485

• The permanent off/on ramp from the 485 inner loop to 85 northbound is now operating.

With that change, the old I-85/I-485 interchange is now completely out of commission.

 

From 85 Northbound to Innerloop.  Innerloop is not completed yet to get cars to 85N.  Small distinction.

The change has already been updated in Google Maps!

[Matthew.Brendan]

My current commute is currently 485 from Matthews to exit 4 / Steel Creek area, so I get to enjoy the ongoing expansion construction converting to 3 lanes.

My question is, the final section of 485 inbetween 85 and 77 that is currently under construction is going to be 3 lanes each way from the beginning, correct?

[grodney]

My question is, the final section of 485 inbetween 85 and 77 that is currently under construction is going to be 3 lanes each way from the beginning, correct?

 

This project page:

http://www.ncdot.gov/projects/charlotteouterloop/

says:

"Construct a new eight-lane section of I-485 from west of N.C. 115 (Old Statesville Road) to west of I-85. This 5.7-mile section will link I-77 to I-85."

[AuLukey]

This is actually good in some ways.  It shows that the state now recognizes the loop for what it is and is planning accordingly.  On the other hand, the state is presumably just asking for new sprawl.  When the first segments of 485 were constructed Pineville and Matthews were itty bitty and Ballentyne didn't even exist.  All the moaners and whiners of south Charlotte talking about the new "unused" segment being wider than the "overused" section around Pineville don't take into consideration the poor planning that went into the expansion that they call home.

 

EDIT: on a side, note, I'd love to express my overwhelming joy of my reverse commute to Concord from Highland Creek.  To see the swaths of people sitting in 85 construction traffic going the opposite way always makes me happier than it should.  The construction is moving right along, many sections are actually completed but are still barricaded due to adjacent sections being incomplete.  Only a matter of time...

Edited September 23, 2013 by AuLukey