Traffic Congestion and Highway Construction

[nicholas]

^that looks like a textbook stolen car scenario.  Car crash followed by what appears to be the driver fleeing the scene (bystanders would typically move back a bit but will be focused on the accident that just happened, not just blindly running off).  Looks like a Dodge Challenger which is known to be targeted by car thieves.

[KJHburg]

well this is big news Cintra not being considered for I-77 south toll lanes.

No Cintra toll lanes on I-77 South: Transportation officials recommend against developer's proposal | WFAE 90.7 - Charlotte's NPR News Source

[Hushpuppy321]

13 hours ago, KJHburg said:

well this is big news Cintra not being considered for I-77 south toll lanes.

No Cintra toll lanes on I-77 South: Transportation officials recommend against developer's proposal | WFAE 90.7 - Charlotte's NPR News Source

I for one think this was a mistake.  I-77 will never be widened in our lifetimes now….

[Nathan2]

5 hours ago, Hushpuppy321 said:

I for one think this was a mistake.  I-77 will never be widened in our lifetimes now….

Honestly, I think it's a good thing. More lanes, toll or not, are not going to benefit the community in the long run. Tolls lanes on 77 North already don't make much of a difference and only benefit those who can afford it. We shouldn't be throwing billions at projects that are band aids. Maybe the continued crazy traffic will get the State and Local officials to think outside of the box (transit). 

[jthomas]

On 9/23/2022 at 2:03 PM, jthomas said:

I'll admit that I made that claim off the cuff, but I do think that math can back it up. A single freeway lane has a maximum capacity of about 2200-2300 vehicles per hour. If we generously assume an average of 2 occupants per vehicle (I would guess that a more accurate number is 1.25-1.5), that means a single freeway lane moves around 4500 people per hour at maximum capacity. For the purpose of this discussion, I think it's fair to consider the maximum theoretical capacity of a rail line, rather than a more realistic assumption of what level of service would actually be run. I'd imagine a using a railcar similar to the Silverliner V used by SEPTA in Philly and RTD in Denver for their electrified regional rail operations. Wikipedia lists the capacity for each 25 meter railcar as around 100 people. So an 8-car train (which admittedly is on the long side, but that's one of the advantages of trains - you can easily increase capacity by adding cars) would hold 800 people. Running a train every 5 minutes (12 tph) would therefore move 9600 people per hour, or at least 2 freeway lanes' worth. And that's not the maximum capacity of the railway - you could run even longer trains, you could run more trains (could probably manage up to 20-24 tph per direction on a dedicated 2-track railway), plus the crush load capacity of the train is probably at least 1.5x the listed capacity. So, I don't think it's unrealistic to say that a 2-track railway could move as many people at peak capacity as an 8-lane freeway, on a footprint that is at most 1/3 of the width of the freeway.

^Quoting myself to agree with the below. NCDOT should be made to compare alternate modes of transportation when they are evaluating freeway projects. The equivalent billions needed to widen 77 south could buy some great rail transit instead, which is more efficient at moving people, less impactful to the environment, and has the desirable side effect of encouraging compact, walkable development patterns. Keep this in mind when NCDOT inevitably proposes to widen 40/85 between Charlotte and Raleigh again at some point in the future. The megabillions it would cost to add another lane to that route would buy us a really nice high-speed rail line.

2 hours ago, Nathan2 said:

Honestly, I think it's a good thing. More lanes, toll or not, are not going to benefit the community in the long run. Tolls lanes on 77 North already don't make much of a difference and only benefit those who can afford it. We shouldn't be throwing billions at projects that are band aids. Maybe the continued crazy traffic will get the State and Local officials to think outside of the box (transit). 

 

[kayman]

https://news.yahoo.com/nc-rejects-cintra-plan-still-192715754.html

Reading is fundamental.

Actually the Cintra proposal was rejected not the idea of pursuing a public-private partnership to widen and add managed toll/flex bus lanes to I-77 from I-277 to the NC/SC state line. The project will be fully analyzed with the environmental assessment document. The project will be sent out for fully advertised open bids for the P3 either as early as 2025. The CRTPO will decide which bidder works best after the bid submission closes.  I highly doubt it'll be Cintra/ I-77 Mobility Partners in the end.

 

[Hushpuppy321]

On 8/18/2023 at 7:55 AM, Nathan2 said:

Honestly, I think it's a good thing. More lanes, toll or not, are not going to benefit the community in the long run. Tolls lanes on 77 North already don't make much of a difference and only benefit those who can afford it. We shouldn't be throwing billions at projects that are band aids. Maybe the continued crazy traffic will get the State and Local officials to think outside of the box (transit). 

I agree that High Volume Transit (Train/BRT/etc.) is a good thing but with the NCGA in control of Politicians not keen on funding Public Transit, I wouldn’t hold my breath with the thought/fantasy  that they’ll relieve any Charlotte Pain/Grief derived from the woefully inadequate/insufficient infrastructure needs here in the Great State of Mecklenburg.

[kayman]

On 8/17/2023 at 1:00 AM, nicholas said:

^that looks like a textbook stolen car scenario.  Car crash followed by what appears to be the driver fleeing the scene (bystanders would typically move back a bit but will be focused on the accident that just happened, not just blindly running off).  Looks like a Dodge Challenger which is known to be targeted by car thieves.

Even if the most recent incident was a stolen vehicle, there haven been several catastrophic vehicle incidents along Independence due to speed and roadway design to be a major freeway not a surface, at-grade boulevard. NCDOT is dragging their feet on the full conversion into a limited access because it's not a priority & costs per the Division office staff response. Right-of-way acquisitions is very costly but if you prioritize it in one methodical strategy with a firm timeline then it wouldn't be as pricey as their dragging their feet. 

Look at the US1 conversation through Southwest Wake County to I-40 or in Alabama with Memorial Parkway (US 231) through Huntsville as prime examples firm time lines leading to sufficient roadway conversions from at-grade to limited access in the midst of rapid growth and development along said corridors.

Edited August 21, 2023 by kayman

[Crucial_Infra]

Some days I like to peruse the traffic cams in Charlotte and Raleigh to compare and contrast the vibes. Yes, we should not celebrate traffic and yet, it’s a good sign for a bustling city

 

P.S. When I become governor, I’m updating all NCDOT traffic cameras. 

Edited August 21, 2023 by Crucial_Infra

[JRCLT]

On 6/21/2023 at 2:44 PM, kayman said:

The Charlotte MPO nor NCDOT haven't ever tried to use ramp meters at all. As a matter of fact there is a congestion management process (CMP) https://crtpo.org/projects-plans-programs/congestion-management-process/ doesn't even mention ramp meters.

That link is the federally mandated congestion management process that requires an update every few years by the metropolitan planning organization with 200,000 or greater populations such as the Charlotte urban area MPO. 

https://connect.ncdot.gov/resources/safety/ITS and Signals Resources/01. Executive Summary Ramp Metering Study for Metrolina.pdf
 

They did a study and they decided not to use them throughout because they didn’t like how it was working though I’m not sure what is meant by that. I heard this from someone at NCDOT. The study summary is linked there. Not sure of anything other than that they looked into it and nothing came of it. I haven’t read anything in about the study either but I’m sure there’s results out there and analysis of how it functioned in Charlotte.

Edited August 27, 2023 by JRCLT

[kayman]

8 hours ago, JRCLT said:

https://connect.ncdot.gov/resources/safety/ITS and Signals Resources/01. Executive Summary Ramp Metering Study for Metrolina.pdf
 

They did a study and they decided not to use them throughout because they didn’t like how it was working though I’m not sure what is meant by that. I heard this from someone at NCDOT. The study summary is linked there. Not sure of anything other than that they looked into it and nothing came of it. I haven’t read anything in about the study either but I’m sure there’s results out there and analysis of how it functioned in Charlotte.

Oh I'm familiar with that bs report from NCDOT. That's their bureaucratic way of saying we see the need for something (in this case ramp metering) but we would rather do it elsewhere to satisfy TPTB.

A reliable source who worked with & retired from NCDOT after 2 decades,  affirmed what NCDOT is aware of what/why certain measures are needed in Metro Charlotte.  However, they also said NCDOT rather implement necessary measures more elsewhere in NC. Although those very measures are more appropriate for Charlotte aka the Metrolina region (NCDOT 10 & 12) as a trial region for congestion management/mitigation performance measures. However, it is an appease maneuver that tends to results in Charlotte having to pay for things itself or half-a**ed deals when it's in dire need of implementation like what resulted in the I-77N Managed Lanes operated by Cintra/I-77 Mobility Partners for example of a poorly executed yet rushed P3. 

Edited August 27, 2023 by kayman

[KJHburg]

Heads up Huntersville people I-77 southbound will be closed overnight soon for construction at the Gilead Rd exit (23)

https://www.qcnews.com/news/u-s/north-carolina/mecklenburg-county/ncdot-crews-to-close-i-77-for-construction-at-huntersville-exit/

[Take2]

On 8/21/2023 at 3:58 PM, Crucial_Infra said:

Some days I like to peruse the traffic cams in Charlotte and Raleigh to compare and contrast the vibes. Yes, we should not celebrate traffic and yet, it’s a good sign for a bustling city

 

P.S. When I become governor, I’m updating all NCDOT traffic cameras. 

I do the exact same thing... 

[NotSoAlien]

Does anyone know whats going on Hwy 16? Between the areas circled in red below. They have been cutting the center grass area out and putting what appears to be turn around areas. They are also doing work off the sides of the roads near the bridges. Does anyone know why they are doing any of that?

[nicholas]

2 hours ago, NotSoAlien said:

Does anyone know whats going on Hwy 16? Between the areas circled in red below. They have been cutting the center grass area out and putting what appears to be turn around areas. They are also doing work off the sides of the roads near the bridges. Does anyone know why they are doing any of that?

Probably to make left turns from Pleasant Grove as inconvenient as possible because "safety" and "traffic flow".

[KJHburg]

Heads up if coming westbound on US 74 from Rockingham and points east. NCDOT has shifted the lanes you need to be in to continue westward to Charlotte at that new interchange and connection for I-74 to US 220 north of Rockingham.  You need to be in the extreme right lane now or you end up on 74 Business.  

Also coming up I-95 from SC to I-74 US 74 in Robeson county why doesn't the NCDOT put a sign that says Charlotte there?  the only 2 towns they list going west are Laurinburg and Rockingham.  This would be a good opportunity to have a Charlotte sign on I-95 and really the only place. Since US 74 is going that way and we are the major city where most of the westbound traffic is heading towards.  There is a Atlanta directional sign at the interchange of US 74 and US 23 in Sylva where it says Franklin and Atlanta! 

https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/rockingham-bypass/Pages/default.aspx

[cowboy_wilhelm]

On 9/8/2023 at 2:38 PM, NotSoAlien said:

Does anyone know whats going on Hwy 16? Between the areas circled in red below. They have been cutting the center grass area out and putting what appears to be turn around areas. They are also doing work off the sides of the roads near the bridges. Does anyone know why they are doing any of that?

"Superstreet"/reduced conflict intersections (u-turn to turn left or cross road).

Project plans: https://connect.ncdot.gov/letting/Division 10 Letting/07-20-2022/P_meck_DJ00421_07202022.pdf

Edited September 10, 2023 by cowboy_wilhelm

[Crucial_Infra]

Bad situation https://www.wcnc.com/article/traffic/interstate-77-closed-uptown-charlotte/275-8e8ce726-64db-4f35-acce-8ad34a6bf00e

[Crucial_Infra]

Situation appears resolved 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Crucial_Infra

[Reverie39]

0% chance this happens, but I wonder how effective an alternative project to I-77 widening/tolls would be. Like, say, putting in a commuter rail (sort of the opposite of the Red Line) in the median or alongside 77 all the way down to Rock Hill. 

Edit: now that I look at it, there are already tracks (guessing freight?) that go from downtown Rock Hill to Gateway in Uptown. They follow along with the southernmost portion of the Blue Line before diverging west for a bit, crossing 77, and then looping back into Uptown by joining the Amtrak tracks. Is this something that has been explored in the past as a regional or commuter rail option? 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Reverie39

[DMann]

nightmare!

 

[Windsurfer]

On 9/25/2023 at 5:06 PM, Reverie39 said:

0% chance this happens, but I wonder how effective an alternative project to I-77 widening/tolls would be. Like, say, putting in a commuter rail (sort of the opposite of the Red Line) in the median or alongside 77 all the way down to Rock Hill. 

Edit: now that I look at it, there are already tracks (guessing freight?) that go from downtown Rock Hill to Gateway in Uptown. They follow along with the southernmost portion of the Blue Line before diverging west for a bit, crossing 77, and then looping back into Uptown by joining the Amtrak tracks. Is this something that has been explored in the past as a regional or commuter rail option? 

There are so many lines running north, south, east and west.... talk to the railroad companies. Good luck. That's what all the fuss about The Red Line is.

What I don't get is, landowners had to tolerate railroad companies' privilege to acquire land/track rights by whatever means with the help of our government, yet, our government has no right to dictate how those rails are used.   Do rail companies still get track ROWs or do they already have so many they don't need anymore?

[kayman]

On 9/25/2023 at 12:06 PM, Reverie39 said:

0% chance this happens, but I wonder how effective an alternative project to I-77 widening/tolls would be. Like, say, putting in a commuter rail (sort of the opposite of the Red Line) in the median or alongside 77 all the way down to Rock Hill. 

Edit: now that I look at it, there are already tracks (guessing freight?) that go from downtown Rock Hill to Gateway in Uptown. They follow along with the southernmost portion of the Blue Line before diverging west for a bit, crossing 77, and then looping back into Uptown by joining the Amtrak tracks. Is this something that has been explored in the past as a regional or commuter rail option? 

It is being explored but not commuter rail rather regional passenger rail corridor btwn Charlotte & Columbia. The issue is getting elected officials to push for South Carolina to support this alignment.  This is also a situation where both North Carolina and South Carolina could work together.

[carolinaboy]

53 minutes ago, kayman said:

It is being explored but not commuter rail rather regional passenger rail corridor btwn Charlotte & Columbia. The issue is getting elected officials to push for South Carolina to support this alignment.  This is also a situation where both North Carolina and South Carolina could work together.

Kayman, I appreciate your knowledge of transit/transportation. Can you tell us (specifically me) what the differences are between commuter rail and regional passenger rail? I'm not sure I know the differences and am eager to learn. 

[kayman]

32 minutes ago, carolinaboy said:

Kayman, I appreciate your knowledge of transit/transportation. Can you tell us (specifically me) what the differences are between commuter rail and regional passenger rail? I'm not sure I know the differences and am eager to learn. 

Commuter rail is basically a form of regional transit within a commutershed of a principal city or cities of a MSA or CSA. Regional passenger railway is basically short-distance intercity rail between different cities like the BrightLine in FL, the Carolinian btwn Charlotte and Raleigh for examples

Edited September 27, 2023 by kayman