Transportation Projects, Roads, Light Rail, etc

[masons_dad1]

There's an article today that states that Wal-Mart is willing to dish out some $$ for the 8th St project in Bentonville:

http://www.nwarktimes.com/bcdr/News/34352/

This was news to me (just now sitting at my computer), honestly, and I wasn't in my office today, so I thought it was interesting enough to mention on this board. Basically, it looks like Wal-Mart will put up the required funding match (since this was a federal ear-marked project), thus helping out the City of Bentonville quite a bit and move this project forward.

With all this funding perceivably a shoo-in for this project, this thing will I bet move forward as fast as possible. Coincedently, while typing this I saw a news report on this very subject on KNWA-- I think they quoted a local official as saying construction might happen in 5 years... that sounds about right. (it will definitely have to jump through beurocratic hoops, which will take time in itself among other things).

I read a similar article about a year ago that said Wal-Mart would front some of the $35 Million to get this project started. It would be paid back to Wal-Mart over the course of 10 years or something like that.

Edited May 6, 2006 by masons_dad1

[itk]

I read a similar article about a year ago that said Wal-Mart would front some of the $35 Million to get this project started. It would be paid back to Wal-Mart over the course of 10 years or something like that.

Didn't hear about that one. I know that as late as several months ago, when I talked to some officials from Bentonville, they seemed to be unsure as to how they were going to pay for their portion (i.e., basically whether or not Wal-Mart would help them out). Now it looks like their set, at least according to the news reports.

[Mith242]

I didn't get to hear all the details but I did hear a little about this before I headed out this weekend. I got the impression Wal-mart was going to provide the money but that the city had to agree to work on some future road work in the near future.

[mcheiss]

Hey Itk, is there any chance at Benton County getting an Interstate Frontage Road?

I know Fayetteville has one, and I bet it helps with Traffic Congestion. Seems like one is drastically needed here in Rogers and Bentonville.

[Mith242]

Hey Itk, is there any chance at Benton County getting an Interstate Frontage Road?

I know Fayetteville has one, and I bet it helps with Traffic Congestion. Seems like one is drastically needed here in Rogers and Bentonville.

Yeah it's sorta funny we have them here in Fayetteville but it seems to me at least that they aren't utilized a lot like I've seen in other areas like central Arkansas.

[jdevers]

Wait until the Mountain Ranch development opens up, then Shiloh between 6th and Weddington will be used quite a bit more. It is already used more than most of the other frontage road. I think the biggest barrier to its use now is how it is not contiguous. Shiloh Dr pops up in about 4 places in Fayetteville and none of the sections are very long, simply connecting Shiloh at Weddington to Shiloh at porter would greatly enhance traffic getting on and off the Interstate at these two locations. Of course the Rupple road expansion will do that and then some, but it was goofy not to connect that all up when it was constructed.

[itk]

Hey Itk, is there any chance at Benton County getting an Interstate Frontage Road?

I know Fayetteville has one, and I bet it helps with Traffic Congestion. Seems like one is drastically needed here in Rogers and Bentonville.

No, not in the modern sense of the term. There's sooo much development happening around I-540 that (1) interchanges would have to be reconfigured and (2) a lot of right-of-way would have to be purchased for the extra space needed. They can't fit frontage roads in the current ROW. So if they did frontage roads, it would be an expensive endevour (esp considering property values near I-540...)

And to be honest anyway, frontage roads (like the Texas system, or parts of Central Ark) have it's disadvantages. I think in modern US freeway design practice, that system is "out of style". The only state DOT's which have employed that kind of system that I'm aware of has been Texas (almost exclusively) and Ark.

Fayetteville's frontage roads, on the other hand, just like frontage roads you see in many rural freeways or once-rural freeways, were put in to retain access to someone(s) property. Not to improve operations or safety. In many cases, close frontage roads make congestion worse at interchanges (I can think of 1 zillion examples. It's generally poor practice in urbanized areas).

In fact, numerous state DOT's are changing/have changed their interchange access guidelines/practice to seperate frontage roads as far away as practical from the interchanges!

However, I know Rogers is wanting to extend I think 45th St from Walnut to New Hope, which parallels I-540, which would in a "sense" be a quasi-frontage road. Kind of like Horsebarn on the W side of 540. But that's probably not what you meant.

[mcheiss]

Yeah, I know 45th Street is suppose to run from Walnut past New Hope Road to Perry Road. I was just curious if we were ever going to get a frontage road. Thanks for the info.

[Mith242]

I was curious to see what people thought about having more open access divided highways. Something like the way much of Hwy 412 is west of Springdale. I don't think something like that would work like say the 412 bypass around Springdale. I do know Pine Bluff tried doing something like this close to the city back in the 70's and they ended up having to put stoplights up at all the access points. But maybe something like that could work in something like a western bypass. I realize you leave it open to problems in the future. But if we got desperate for more roads it would seem to me that you could cut out a lot of costs without any overpasses.

[masons_dad1]

I was curious to see what people thought about having more open access divided highways. Something like the way much of Hwy 412 is west of Springdale. I don't think something like that would work like say the 412 bypass around Springdale. I do know Pine Bluff tried doing something like this close to the city back in the 70's and they ended up having to put stoplights up at all the access points. But maybe something like that could work in something like a western bypass. I realize you leave it open to problems in the future. But if we got desperate for more roads it would seem to me that you could cut out a lot of costs without any overpasses.

I must say I like divided highways, but I don't see how NWA is going to add any with such narrow existing roads. I'm used to most main thoroughfares being divided in St. Petersburg, FL. But then that city planned ahead for roads by making them wide from the beginning before all the growth. NWA will have to settle for narrow 4 lane roads and highways because it's too late to go back and plan ahead for the future. Just accept things for how they are and move on.

[itk]

I was curious to see what people thought about having more open access divided highways. Something like the way much of Hwy 412 is west of Springdale. I don't think something like that would work like say the 412 bypass around Springdale. I do know Pine Bluff tried doing something like this close to the city back in the 70's and they ended up having to put stoplights up at all the access points. But maybe something like that could work in something like a western bypass. I realize you leave it open to problems in the future. But if we got desperate for more roads it would seem to me that you could cut out a lot of costs without any overpasses.

In the case of Hwy 65B in Pine Bluff, because it is a "high design type" expressway, people tend to drive much faster than the posted speed limite (I think 45mph?), even between signals. I've heard/seen speed traps through there. Basically, it doesn't work out so well.

It's true that building at-grade intersections can be much cheaper than grade-seperations. In the case of rural highways, though, there is a major consideration, particularly when the area develops thus necessitating traffic signals-- safety. Rural high-speed highways with periodic traffic signals don't have a good safety record I think. It's counter-intuitive to unfamiliar drivers and drivers not paying attention. Look at any high-speed expressways with a traffic signal, and I bet more often than not you'll see a bunch of skid marks.

The "eastern loop/bypass" (as described in NARTS 2030 Long Range Plan) has been talked about as an, as you say, open access divided highway. But that doesn't have the sex appeal as the western bypass does right now. It is a good point overall, though, as long as it makes sense. Something to think about.

In the case of the western bypass, I'm 99% sure that will be strictly a freeway if it is to happen at all. That's what the current thinking is among many jurisdictions and agencies. Even the feds.

[KJW]

...In the case of the western bypass, I'm 99% sure that will be strictly a freeway if it is to happen at all. That's what the current thinking is among many jurisdictions and agencies. Even the feds.

With today's/yesterday's arena news, the new Benton County fairgrounds, the "new town" between the fairgrounds and Centerton, the (development with room for) 14,000 people in Highfill, XNA, the new bypass to be built between Bella Vista/McDonald County...it's HIGH TIME for the western bypass to be hot on the table.

Now will they do it?

[mcheiss]

Indeed.

The Bypass is becoming very needing for the future of NWA.

[Mith242]

I'm sure it will be done. I think it's more a question of when will it happen.

[KJW]

I'm sure it will be done. I think it's more a question of when will it happen.

Well, look at this article in this morning's Bentonville News...officials are now predicting that, due to public support for the toll roads, the Bella Vista bypass could be open by 2010.

They'll have to get cracking, but...wow (if that happens).

[masons_dad1]

Well, look at this article in this morning's Bentonville News...officials are now predicting that, due to public support for the toll roads, the Bella Vista bypass could be open by 2010.

They'll have to get cracking, but...wow (if that happens).

At least I didn't see mention of a sales tax increase to pay for it. This is probably the only road project in NWA that stands a chance of becoming a reality. I'm seeing billion dollar estimates for other much needed road projects in NWA.

[KJW]

At least I didn't see mention of a sales tax increase to pay for it. This is probably the only road project in NWA that stands a chance of becoming a reality. I'm seeing billion dollar estimates for other much needed road projects in NWA.

No sales tax increase since it's going to be a toll road.

Interesting...where is all this "traffic" coming from that would justify this bypass?

[Mith242]

No sales tax increase since it's going to be a toll road.

Interesting...where is all this "traffic" coming from that would justify this bypass?

I don't go up there a lot but it seems to me that traffic is bad up there the times I am in that area. I just don't think the are streets are laid out very well. That and all the stoplights also really backs things up as well. I also consider Bella Vista part of the core of the metro. I think having an interstate quality road around it makes sense.

[itk]

No sales tax increase since it's going to be a toll road.

Interesting...where is all this "traffic" coming from that would justify this bypass?

I've always wondered that as well. I've been thinking its recent housing developments in Bella Vista coupled with people in McDonald County finding a job in Benton County. Maybe someone very familiar with that area can elighten me. Traffic has gotten past a threshold, it seemed to me, in the last couple of years.

In the morning and evening rush, I've seen queues 2+ miles long, easy. And like Mith said, the roads aren't laid out the best, as Hwy 71 is basically the only good way as far as I can tell to travel N-S in that area.

[Mith242]

I've always wondered that as well. I've been thinking its recent housing developments in Bella Vista coupled with people in McDonald County finding a job in Benton County. Maybe someone very familiar with that area can elighten me. Traffic has gotten past a threshold, it seemed to me, in the last couple of years.

In the morning and evening rush, I've seen queues 2+ miles long, easy. And like Mith said, the roads aren't laid out the best, as Hwy 71 is basically the only good way as far as I can tell to travel N-S in that area.

I guess maybe the best way to describe it perhaps is imagine some of the other NWA cities and not having I-540. I admit I don't know it well enough to argue that maybe there are other road projects that could better serve the area. Although even if I-49 isn't likely to happen anytime soon if ever this is another link to having an interstate quality road to I-44 and Kansas City also.

[masons_dad1]

Let me just clarify it for everyone. I just made a trip to the Missouri Wal-Mart and traffic was crawling from the Tiger Stop on North Walton all the way to the north end of the long golf course on 71 on the north side of Bella Vista. That's more than a couple miles. I'd say that's the worse traffic I've experienced in NWA since I've been here for around 9 years now. I'm told by my friend who lives in Bella Vista that it's normal daytime traffic for Bella Vista. This bypass is in dire need.

Edited May 27, 2006 by masons_dad1

[mcheiss]

I'm glad Walton Blvd in Bentonville was finally widened to 5 lanes near the Interstate, traffic flows a lot better there during the lunch hour.

[mcheiss]

Ridership on Ozark Regional Transit in Fayetteville is up 21 percent from October to May. The count went from 23, 769 to 28, 850. Systemwide, in the four counties, ridership is up 9. 7 percent from October to May, Pumphrey said. A Fiscal year is October to October for the organization.

Yet, Fayetteville

[mcheiss]

I don't know if anyone has driven on I-540 lately, but dirt work for the Perry Road Interchange has begun. Great to see this project finally started.

[masons_dad1]

I don't know if anyone has driven on I-540 lately, but dirt work for the Perry Road Interchange has begun. Great to see this project finally started.

So Matt, will you be using the Perry Road interchange to commute to work?