Transportation Projects, Roads, Light Rail, etc

[itk]

I would like to see the new Springdale and Bella Vista Bypass's to be both Toll. Even the XNA Airport Road could be toll when completed, which would be a great asset in trying to relocate a major aircraft manufactuer, or other manufacturer. I think Toll's are the best option for NWA, seeing as how it would help pay for more road projects. If I'm correct, NWA could have the first Toll Road in Arkansas.

The Interstate should be widened to 8 lanes in my opinion as well. This is actually priority nu. 2 for me. It's going to get congested, and IMO it would be a lot easier and quicker to widen the existing Interstate instead of having to build a new Western Bypass that would cost more tax money and really not serve a good function. It would also take 10 more years seeing as how all the permits you'd have to get from the EPA, AHTD, etc.

Third, NWA needs to focus on aertial roads. These will be the roads most used in NWA, and I must say that in Benton County and especially Rogers we Fail. The New Hope widening project isn't going to help us very long, seeing as how the AHTD did a study concluding that within 15 years, traffic would be even worse on New Hope than what it was before the widening happened. New Aertial Roads need to be made as well.

I think you're right-- tolls are going to happen in NWA. If all goes according to plan, I think Bella Vista might be the first toll in Ark. The Bella Vista bypass toll study is being updated as we speak and should be completed this spring; the final design is being done as well. I think ROW/utility work is about to begin.

I-540 is pretty congested, but still isn't nearly as bad as big city freeways. However, after more interchanges get improved, as the area grows, and as more developements along I-540 attract more people, it will get worse. The main problems now are really at the interchanges. Unless money falls out of the sky, what will likely happen is that pieces of I-540 will get widened to 6 lns (instead of all at once) along with major interchange improvements until it is 6 lns, then later 8 lns. Fortunately for NWA, almost all of the necessary ROW for main lane widening is already there, so the cost to widen 540 is relatively inexpensive (compared to big city freeway widening projects).

Agreed on your third point. NWA planners are working on this problem right now... in fact I was in a working group meeting yesterday working on this very issue for NWA. We all really, and I mean really, recognize this particular issue needs to be addressed now. The difficult part is working with all these seperate jurisdictions... all with their own wants, needs, and agendas. Fortunately, they have been generally receptive and agreeable (I'm not involved in that entire process), so as long as people/politicians/AHTD/etc. keep pushing the issue (i.e., the need for better arterial and network connectivity), the local MPO and the local jurisdictions will come to agreements I think for some of these major arterial corridors hopefully. I think that falls into the category of 'good planning', which requires lots of time and effort, and fortunately the MPO up here recognizes that is working on it now.

[Mith242]

Interesting stuff. First off nice forum here-- I've lurked on and off before, these are great discussions going on and I think I can make meaningful contributions. I wish I would have seen this thread earlier.

Now to this particular post (which expresses similar frustrations to just about anyone else living in NWA). I understand your frustration, and believe you me just about everything is being done to get these projects live and running. AHTD knows NWA has immense transportation needs that cannot be addressed soon enough. The example you give about the 412 bypass is understandable-- fortunately, once the Record of Decision (or ROD) is finalized by FHWA, official design work and ROW/utility work can (and will, trust me) begin immediately. Especially considering how ROW costs are just going through the roof.

Welcome to the board itk. After reading your three posts it certainly sounds like you have some great info. Glad you decided to share it with us. You certainly bring up some great points. I think a lot of problems can be traced back to several things. First Arkansas is a relatively poor state. Second is we're having remarkable growth up here. Take that in conjuction of Arkansas not being a bigger more powerful state it's going to be hard for the state to keep up. Another thing I'd also like to mention is the fact that many people in Arkansas seem to prefer the pay as you go method. The vote on the highway bond issue showed that even people in NWA didn't vote for it even though we could have benefited from it. I don't know if it's a inherit distrust of state angencies or what that caused this. I also think NWA might need to look into some of these projects themselves and see what can be done. We can't just sit around waiting for the state or someone else. If the bypass around Bella Vista and some of the other roads could be toll roads maybe we need to be looking into that more seriously and trying to get some individuals lined up. But anyway glad you decided to join in itk and hope you feel like posting some more now.

[mcheiss]

LOL... Trust me, the "guys" doing the planning for NWA aren't stalling for all the tea in China. The bottom line is $$$. AHTD knows there is a huge funding shortfall for transportation needs in the area. The same thing is happening to all (or almost all) DOT's across the country-- not enough $$$. The gas tax funding source strategy is being outdated in a hurry, and everyone knows it. AHTD is looking hard at different funding sources/strategies... I'm sure you all still remember what happened at the ballots early last Dec. So keep in mind that when it comes to funding, politics get heavily involved. Fortunately, cities in NWA have been proactive and receptive to unique funding strategies, particularly partnering with AHTD to fastrack some projects that they consider priorities.

Also keep in mind that AHTD has a lawful obligation to spend taxpayer money wisely... sometimes that gets tested. For example, are you familiar with Horsebarn/Pinnacle Pkwy in Rogers? Well, it was let again this Jan... and all bids were rejected again. (I'm sort of surprised the local media didn't get wind of that.) It's my understanding that unnacceptably high bids (I think especially for smaller jobs) are happening frequently in NWA, since contractors aren't necessarily short of work these days. Combine that with skyrocketing ROW costs, higher gas prices, higher steel prices... well, I think you get the picture. The more expensive projects get, the less money there is for other projects.

Welcome itk to the NWA Forum. We hope to hear a lot more from you in the future. With the Pinnacle Pkwy project, another obstacle was getting private landowners to agree to give their land to the city for the expansion. It took 2 months to get all 3 or 4 private landowners to turn over their land. So, I guess money isn't the only limitation in road construction.

[itk]

Welcome itk to the NWA Forum. We hope to hear a lot more from you in the future. With the Pinnacle Pkwy project, another obstacle was getting private landowners to agree to give their land to the city for the expansion. It took 2 months to get all 3 or 4 private landowners to turn over their land. So, I guess money isn't the only limitation in road construction.

I read about that too. That's too bad given the development in the area-- whenever the new hospital opens, Shoppes, and the new Promenade, traffic will be nasty, especially before the Perry Rd interchange gets built (and the 45th St connection behind the new Home Depot). I heard the Pinnacle Hills developers are a bit concerned that the resultant traffic jams might hurt business when Promenade opens. With good reason.

Someone mentioned to me that a similar situation happened at McCain/Hwy 67/167 area in NLR when McCain mall opened a number of years back (before my time).

[masons_dad1]

LOL... Trust me, the "guys" doing the planning for NWA aren't stalling for all the tea in China. The bottom line is $$$. AHTD knows there is a huge funding shortfall for transportation needs in the area. The same thing is happening to all (or almost all) DOT's across the country-- not enough $$$. The gas tax funding source strategy is being outdated in a hurry, and everyone knows it. AHTD is looking hard at different funding sources/strategies... I'm sure you all still remember what happened at the ballots early last Dec. So keep in mind that when it comes to funding, politics get heavily involved. Fortunately, cities in NWA have been proactive and receptive to unique funding strategies, particularly partnering with AHTD to fastrack some projects that they consider priorities.

The problem with our local governments is they want everything handed to them without any effort on their part. What they need to do and should have done years ago is start issuing city bonds. They need to quit saying that there just isn't money for infrastructure and get the money. It's their responsibility to keep up with the growth and it might be nice if they actually plan ahead instead of trying to play catch-up which costs more in the long run.

[itk]

The problem with our local governments is they want everything handed to them without any effort on their part. What they need to do and should have done years ago is start issuing city bonds. They need to quit saying that there just isn't money for infrastructure and get the money. It's their responsibility to keep up with the growth and it might be nice if they actually plan ahead instead of trying to play catch-up which costs more in the long run.

If I'm not mistaken, Springdale has done that (will see the frutition of that soon with their 'E-W Corridors'), I think Rogers is trying that and so is Fayetteville.

[Mith242]

If I had to rate them I think Rogers has done the best job with keeping up with road construction and planning ahead. Bentonville hasn't done too badly overall. I personally think Springdale and Fayetteville have done the worst jobs of keeping up or planning ahead. Although I still wonder if Fayetteville had gotten behind on purpose at times to try to encourage some of the growth to go elsewhere. The city went through a period in the 90's where close to zero growth, or well very low growth, seemed to be what was wanted.

[masons_dad1]

If I'm not mistaken, Springdale has done that (will see the frutition of that soon with their 'E-W Corridors'), I think Rogers is trying that and so is Fayetteville.

You're right. The cities have finally realized that they have to issue bonds. Bentoville just issued a 20 year bond for road and sewer improvements. What they need to do now is stay ahead of the game. They can issue more bonds as they will easily be bought up here with all the tremendous growth. But bonds alone won't accomplish much more than putting the cities in debt for the next 20-30 years. The cities need to look at many other alternatives to help with needed improvements.

[Mith242]

Sounds like a study will be done soon on a possible western bypass. A tollroad as a possibility will be looked into as well. Granted this is still a way into the future but I am glad they are looking into it now. I hadn't thought about it before but I guess a western bypass could end up being the future path of I-49 and not the section of I-540 near the metro. This would add a fourth major north-south roadway in the area along with Hwy 71, I-540, and Hwy 59. estimates right now are around $400 Mil, although I'm sure that will go up as time goes on. The Arkansas Democrat Gazette showed a possible route. I guess I hadn't realized just how much closer the northern area will be to Hwy 59 than to I-540.

Edited February 27, 2006 by Mith242

[Mith242]

Apparently some people think a western bypass should be first priority over widening I-540. I'm not so sure I agree with that personally. I think I'd rather see I-540 widened first then consider a western bypass or maybe even an eastern parkway that has been mentioned before. Although there is a valid argument about if there is a major accident on I-540 then traffic in the whole area is really screwed, to be blunt about it. A western bypass would give you another alternative if you knew there was a major wreck on I-540. But I lean towards widening our primary road first and then look for another future route.

[strmchsr77]

Is there any chance that we can have the best of all worlds? Widen I-540 to 6/8 lanes, have a 4/6 lane western bypass and a 4/6 lane eastern bypass/parkway. If we all picth in now I am sure it will be worth the money.

[masons_dad1]

Apparently some people think a western bypass should be first priority over widening I-540. I'm not so sure I agree with that personally. I think I'd rather see I-540 widened first then consider a western bypass or maybe even an eastern parkway that has been mentioned before. Although there is a valid argument about if there is a major accident on I-540 then traffic in the whole area is really screwed, to be blunt about it. A western bypass would give you another alternative if you knew there was a major wreck on I-540. But I lean towards widening our primary road first and then look for another future route.

Coming from St. Petersburg, Florida I can tell you that having one big main thoroughfare is a huge mistake. US 19 in St. Pete is the main thoroughfare and they have many wide arterial roads in a huge grid pattern all over the city, but it's not uncommon to drive down a 5 lane road there in the middle of rush hour with very few cars on it. I have been behind a western bypass since it was first mentioned as it would move commuters away from the already congested I-540. When I-49 is completed it will dump a huge number of trucks and travellers into Northwest Arkansas and I hope we have an alternate route before that happens.

Is there any chance that we can have the best of all worlds? Widen I-540 to 6/8 lanes, have a 4/6 lane western bypass and a 4/6 lane eastern bypass/parkway. If we all picth in now I am sure it will be worth the money.

All those projects combined would cost in the neighborhood of a billion dollars. Just widening 8th street in Bentonville and creating an interchange is costing $35 million. If Northwest Arkansas was just one major city with some suburbs a lot could be done. As is the case each city is only interested in their own little piece of the pie.

[Mith242]

Is there any chance that we can have the best of all worlds? Widen I-540 to 6/8 lanes, have a 4/6 lane western bypass and a 4/6 lane eastern bypass/parkway. If we all picth in now I am sure it will be worth the money.

Well it might be possible at some time far off in the future. I'm not sure how two tollroads for the western and eastern would go over. I haven't seen any figures on an eastern parkway and haven't heard any talk of it anymore. But estimates for the western bypass is around $400 Mil and I think the widening of I-540 to 6 lanes is estimated to be around $350 Mil.

[Mith242]

Coming from St. Petersburg, Florida I can tell you that having one big main thoroughfare is a huge mistake. US 19 in St. Pete is the main thoroughfare and they have many wide arterial roads in a huge grid pattern all over the city, but it's not uncommon to drive down a 5 lane road there in the middle of rush hour with very few cars on it. I have been behind a western bypass since it was first mentioned as it would move commuters away from the already congested I-540. When I-49 is completed it will dump a huge number of trucks and travellers into Northwest Arkansas and I hope we have an alternate route before that happens.

All those projects combined would cost in the neighborhood of a billion dollars. Just widening 8th street in Bentonville and creating an interchange is costing $35 million. If Northwest Arkansas was just one major city with some suburbs a lot could be done. As is the case each city is only interested in their own little piece of the pie.

Knowing how roads are done here it will probably be a while before I-49 from Texarkana to Ft Smith is built. Unless the federal goverment suddenly drops a lot of money on our heads for that project. You might be right on the western bypass. But I guess it just seems to me that the widening on I-540 would be a more immediate help. But if the western bypass is done as a tollroad then it will probably be built rather quickly. I seem to recall Oklahoma really putting out some tollroads pretty quickly.

[masons_dad1]

Knowing how roads are done here it will probably be a while before I-49 from Texarkana to Ft Smith is built. Unless the federal goverment suddenly drops a lot of money on our heads for that project. You might be right on the western bypass. But I guess it just seems to me that the widening on I-540 would be a more immediate help. But if the western bypass is done as a tollroad then it will probably be built rather quickly. I seem to recall Oklahoma really putting out some tollroads pretty quickly.

I've heard that I-49 could be completed in as little as 10 years. The state is just waiting for the billion dollars from the feds.

[Mith242]

I've heard that I-49 could be completed in as little as 10 years. The state is just waiting for the billion dollars from the feds.

That would certainly be great. But I wonder how soon the money will be coming though.

[itk]

Sounds like a study will be done soon on a possible western bypass. A tollroad as a possibility will be looked into as well. Granted this is still a way into the future but I am glad they are looking into it now. I hadn't thought about it before but I guess a western bypass could end up being the future path of I-49 and not the section of I-540 near the metro. This would add a fourth major north-south roadway in the area along with Hwy 71, I-540, and Hwy 59. estimates right now are around $400 Mil, although I'm sure that will go up as time goes on. The Arkansas Democrat Gazette showed a possible route. I guess I hadn't realized just how much closer the northern area will be to Hwy 59 than to I-540.

Where did that $400 million figure come from??? Did the journalist say where that came from? (I'm assuming you pulled that from a news article).

[itk]

Although there is a valid argument about if there is a major accident on I-540 then traffic in the whole area is really screwed, to be blunt about it. A western bypass would give you another alternative if you knew there was a major wreck on I-540.

That's a big misconception (others have said the same thing). If you're stuck in a jam due to an incident on 540 between Fay and Bentonville, are you going to drive approx 10-15 mi to the west, drive maybe 10-15 n or s, then double-back the 10-15 miles to the east? Very, very, very unlikely as it is currently conceived. 112, 71B, or 265 are you're most logical best bets. It would only truly benefit (not talking about economic benefits due to development oportunities) through n-s traffic THROUGH NWA, and (again, as it is currently conceived) commuters in and around Bella Vista/Jane MO and Greenland/S Fay.

Can't have it as a bypass AND as a parallel commuter route serving existing communities in NWA. Can't have your cake and eat it too. Not saying your point isn't valid.

[mcheiss]

Well today the Lowell Ozark Regional transit Route will begin. The Route will start at the Rogers Pleasant Grove Wal-Mart Supercenter, work it's way down 71-B or the Interstate and stop at the Springdale Wal-Mart Supercenter. So now, a person from Bentonville can travel to the Fayetteville Mall by riding Ozark Regional Transit.

[Mith242]

Where did that $400 million figure come from??? Did the journalist say where that came from? (I'm assuming you pulled that from a news article).

I don't recall whether it was an article or if it was off the tv but yeah I did see or hear that number mentioned. I take it that number isn't anywhere close? Not that it would be the first time I've seen incorrect info like that.

That's a big misconception (others have said the same thing). If you're stuck in a jam due to an incident on 540 between Fay and Bentonville, are you going to drive approx 10-15 mi to the west, drive maybe 10-15 n or s, then double-back the 10-15 miles to the east? Very, very, very unlikely as it is currently conceived. 112, 71B, or 265 are you're most logical best bets. It would only truly benefit (not talking about economic benefits due to development oportunities) through n-s traffic THROUGH NWA, and (again, as it is currently conceived) commuters in and around Bella Vista/Jane MO and Greenland/S Fay.

Can't have it as a bypass AND as a parallel commuter route serving existing communities in NWA. Can't have your cake and eat it too. Not saying your point isn't valid.

Yeah I do see where you're coming from on that point. I guess the bad thing is that those other roads probably couldn't handle the additional traffic very well. Can I take it you're more in favor of additional lanes on I-540 or just playing devil's advocate?

Well today the Lowell Ozark Regional transit Route will begin. The Route will start at the Rogers Pleasant Grove Wal-Mart Supercenter, work it's way down 71-B or the Interstate and stop at the Springdale Wal-Mart Supercenter. So now, a person from Bentonville can travel to the Fayetteville Mall by riding Ozark Regional Transit.

I guess I didn't realize there is a route between the mall and the Sam's/Supercenter area of Springdale. I wonder how many stops this buses make and how long it would take you. But still it's nice to see that it's possible even if it's not very practical yet.

[Mith242]

Apparently now that the 412 bypass has officially received it's stamp of approval the access road to XNA can now move forward. Here's a pic taken from the Arkansas Democrat Gazette via the NARPC of the proposed routes.

[itk]

Yeah I do see where you're coming from on that point. I guess the bad thing is that those other roads probably couldn't handle the additional traffic very well. Can I take it you're more in favor of additional lanes on I-540 or just playing devil's advocate?

Honestly I have no opinion. No one can really say for sure without an objective planning study. And, I don't think this has been reported, that that cannot truly begin without the NWA regional travel demand computer model, which NWARPC is working on right now. That is a major time consuming process but when completed (any MPO with a sizable metro area has one) will be a major tool for evaluating any future bypass proposals, including the western bypass.

I think that the western bypass in some shape or form will most likely be found feasible sometime in the future (it's location does make some sense). However, given the growth in the area and other big time funding transportation needs, it's my thought that this concept won't become a reality for quite some time. Just think-- a 412 bypass around Springdale has been talked about since the *late 1960's*. First, as a southern bypass, then in the early 90's as a northern bypass. It still hasn't been built. But again, if there were more funds available...

[mcheiss]

Good to see the access road finally got the stamp of approval from the Highway Department, now hopefully the enviromental tests can be completed, and we can finally get this thing finished by late 2008, or possibly 2009.

[itk]

Good to see the access road finally got the stamp of approval from the Highway Department, now hopefully the enviromental tests can be completed, and we can finally get this thing finished by late 2008, or possibly 2009.

Well, the Envinornmental work has long been completed. They will have to update it again if not already have done so, since the approval I think is good for only 3 years (give or take?). Van Laningham said 2009 MIGHT be open by 2009, but as he was quoted "That's admittedly ambitious."

http://www.nwanews.com/adg/News/147286/

It won't be built without the western portion of the 412 bypass, that's for sure, so it will only be open as soon as that portion of 412 is open. Which Van Laningham has no direct control over-- AHTD does. Just reminding people to keep that in mind.

[Mith242]

Very true, if things don't go smoothly for the 412 bypass then that's obviously not going to do any good for the access road. I don't look forward to how badly traffic will be by the time some of these roads will be completed.