Virginia Beach Stores, Retail, and Restaurants

[urbanvb]

Good to hear the retail is doing well and hopefully the hotel also. Wonder what the 2nd phase of the Ocean Beach club consists of..

[vdogg]

Brewer hopes local market develops taste for craft beer

[urbanvb]

Brewer hopes local market develops taste for craft beer

BTW, the brewery was open last night when I drove by. Looked pretty packed as I could tell too. Also, the Daily Grind Unwind coffee shop was open last night as well.

[rusthebuss]

I use to love Hilltop brewery! I'm sorry to see it gone!

[urbanvb]

Biked by the old Kroger site today and it has been cleared save for a few piles of crushed blocks. Infill dirt has been brought in and leveled. Looks like construction could begin soon. Just waiting for them to announce who is coming. . Asked someone if they knew was Whole Foods coming but they said Whole Foods declined and Trader Joes is coming. I am gonna try not to speculate again.

[hoobo]

Biked by the old Kroger site today and it has been cleared save for a few piles of crushed blocks. Infill dirt has been brought in and leveled. Looks like construction could begin soon. Just waiting for them to announce who is coming. . Asked someone if they knew was Whole Foods coming but they said Whole Foods declined and Trader Joes is coming. I am gonna try not to speculate again.

I think residents will be much more happy with Trader Joe's than Whole Foods. The only thing reasonably priced at Whole Foods is the produce. Although their prepared food is rather good.

[scm]

I think residents will be much more happy with Trader Joe's than Whole Foods. The only thing reasonably priced at Whole Foods is the produce. Although their prepared food is rather good.

TJs vs. Whole Foods

I love the TJs in NN, and shop there every time my job takes me to the peninsula. But I'd never compare the selection in a TJs, with 2500 SKUs, with a Whole Foods with 15,000. Believe me, I've shopped in both, and there is no comparison -- in selection, mainly. They just are different stores, with different goals. It will be a long wait for a WF in HR. There will be one in Richmond before there is one here, and the reason is simple market demographics.

I once drove a '74 Datsun pickup. It got me and my stuff from point A to point B. Now, I have a nice topped-out BMW X3. It also gets me and my stuff from point A to point B. But I've never compared the price of the Datsun to the price of the BMW.

If you want good service, cleanliness, a wide selection of high quality organic and other premium quality food, and to spend money with a company with good environmental practices, you're going to pay a little more for those qualities. It is that simple. I'm willing, and apparently lots of other people around the country are as well. I just don't know if there are enough in HR to attract WF.

[urbanvb]

Looking at the WF website I see they have 6 stores in the Nova area - no surprise there- but I was surprised to find one in Charlottesville. Charlottesvile is much smaller than any of the cities in HR (except perhaps Suffolk) but they managed to get one. Perhaps there are more affluent people living there any VB? One other thing I thought about too is the affluent people in VB live all around the city so it may be more difficult to have a central location close to them. They probably need an affluent critical mass around them to support them. But in saying that, I do believe one day Pembroke may have that critical mass to support one but by then there may be not need for another market - or maybe there will.

[lammius]

Looking at the WF website I see they have 6 stores in the Nova area - no surprise there- but I was surprised to find one in Charlottesville. Charlottesvile is much smaller than any of the cities in HR (except perhaps Suffolk) but they managed to get one. Perhaps there are more affluent people living there any VB? One other thing I thought about too is the affluent people in VB live all around the city so it may be more difficult to have a central location close to them. They probably need an affluent critical mass around them to support them. But in saying that, I do believe one day Pembroke may have that critical mass to support one but by then there may be not need for another market - or maybe there will.

Charlottesville is smaller than Suffolk. Its population is only about 45,000. But between Cville and the surrounding Albemarle County (much of which is also called "Charlottesville") there is quite a bit of affluence. It's an awkward mix of UVA "good ol boys" and retired hippies from DC.

In my observation, Whole Foods isn't necessarily a market that seeks affluence, rather most of the ones I've seen are located in areas where there's large numbers of younger professional people. I shop at Whole Foods every week, not only because I prefer organic produce, but because it's the only supermarket within easy walking distance of my apartment (apart from A&P which I think is NJ's version of BE-LO). An aside, a Pathmark Supermarket occupies an old train station in my town. An excellent re-use of an old building IMO.

As for Va Beach, I think if it gets a critical mass of young professional people anywhere within its borders Whole Foods would try to sell to it. Trader Joe's is also popular with young people but I've seen them in old farty suburbs too.

[hoobo]

Whole Foods is really yuppie-ish and hippie-ish. You'll find the former there because it has premium, health-conscious products that you find in specialty shops like Taste Unlimited and Azar's but may be hard to find in most supermarket chains (though I think they'd be in direct competion with the revamped Farm Fresh and to some degree Harris Teeter). The latter shop there because the chain offers vegan, vegetarian, and organic products galore. That's why there's one in Cville, but that metro area is full of the two target clientale. Most UVa students shop at Harris Teeter because of convenience, student discounts, and they have the stuff kids want like Haagen Dazs, Natty Light, and Lays potato chips. There's also Foods of all Nations, which died in VB but thrives in Cville, and an abundance of natural vegetrarian food stores in that city. Anyway, Fresh Market seems to be surviving in VB.

Trader Joe's on the otherhand is about healthy food at a good price that is convenient like frozen meals, fresh bread, organic jams and nut butters. Its type of food is like Whole Foods in that it is healthy and organic, but again they offer more frozen and prepared items compared to Whole Foods' produce, meats, seafood, and cheeses. TJ's is an unconventional market. It's thriving on the backlash against unhealthy and processed foods by offering alternatives at comparable, and in many cases lower, prices.

I just don't think HR has the demographic suited for Whole Foods. It's not a matter of affluence at all. Even here in Orange County, there's only one Whole Foods while there are a million Trader Joe's. However in ritzy, artsy west Los Angeles and Santa Monica, there's a Whole Foods every couple miles while Trader Joe's is harder to come by.

[urbanvb]

Sounds like TJ's may be a better fit for the area. The city has a lot of value conscious people who also value convenience so this may work out well, that is if indeed TJ is the one coming. I am thinking they are bc they stated months ago they were looking for a location in the Pembroke area. This would be a pefect fit for them in this location.

[sugoiben]

There is both a Whole Foods and a Trader Joe's very close to where I live. Right across the street from each other. I've only been in either one, once or twice. I think I went into Whole Foods just cause I needed something simple, like milk, and couldn't even find like a normal half gallon of milk. It was all soy milk, or skim, other weird hippy stuff. The place is simply too fancy/hippy/organic/expensive for my tastes. Trader Joe's is similiarly strange. I would never consider it a grocery store per se. Nothing fresh there. All frozen, or premade, boxed up ready to go. And the store is pretty small. They got a big aisle of herbal dietary supplement, and weird stuff like organic shampoo and things like that for such a small store. Anyways, both of them always have packed parking lots and seems to do good business up here in Nova. But I'm from the Beach.... and I drive past both to go to Giant to get my food. Cheaper, normal stuff. Just out of curiosity though, what is the nearest "normal" store to the whole City Walk/Town Center area now then? Only thing I can think of are, I think a Hannaford a ways down Va Beach Blvd. Or... is a Food Lion? Down at Independence and S. Plaza Trl. Just thinking, eventually they are gonna need a normal grocery store down there somewhere to really create that sense of urban living a real "downtown" needs.

[urbanvb]

Yeah there is a Food Lion at Aragona which is the closest. There is a Farm Fresh in Collins Square on the Blvd and a new one being built in Haygood shopping center.

[scm]

Charlottesville is smaller than Suffolk. Its population is only about 45,000. But between Cville and the surrounding Albemarle County (much of which is also called "Charlottesville") there is quite a bit of affluence. It's an awkward mix of UVA "good ol boys" and retired hippies from DC.

The Charlottesville store came along in the 1996 acquistion of Fresh Fields. They are currently building a new one, along with a store in Richmond.

Here are their criteria:

200,000 people or more in a 20 minute drive time

40,000

[urbanvb]

After four long years it looks like Lowes will finally build their store off VB Blvd.

Lowe's resumes construction in Beach

VIRGINIA BEACH - A long-running legal dispute that had blocked Lowe's from building a new store off Virginia Beach Boulevard has been settled, attorneys said Tuesday.

Work on the store is under way near Great Neck Road beside Parker Lane.

story

[RJWGMU]

The Charlottesville store came along in the 1996 acquistion of Fresh Fields. They are currently building a new one, along with a store in Richmond.

Here are their criteria:

200,000 people or more in a 20 minute drive time

40,000

[hoobo]

The Charlottesville store came along in the 1996 acquistion of Fresh Fields. They are currently building a new one, along with a store in Richmond.

Here are their criteria:

200,000 people or more in a 20 minute drive time

40,000–75,000 Square Feet

Large number of college-educated residents

Abundant parking available for our exclusive use

Stand alone preferred, would consider complementary

Easy access from roadways, lighted intersection

Excellent visibility, directly off of the street

Must be located in a high traffic area (foot and/or vehicle)

I have no idea how Pembroke stacks up on #1 or #3. Any one know?

I haven't been able to find the statistic but the TC website used to have population demographics for given radii. But a conservative 5 mile radius for 20 minute drive time should net well over 200,000 people. From the Census, 28% of VB residents have college degrees with other South HR cities at 25% (Chesapeake), 20% (Norfolk), 17% (Suffolk), and 14% (Portsmouth). The Peninsula, however, looks like it matches the Whole Foods model better especially the northern NN area.

Edited July 26, 2006 by hoobo

[wrldcoupe4]

Richmond's Whole Foods will be opening in 2008 in the $1 billion West Broad Village development... I think they are also planning 1-2 more stores at the moment in that region.

Whole Foods is great, but won't appeal to a lot of consumers in either area. Nonetheless, they'll do plenty of business. I think Trader Joe's would be a cool fit for TC.

[erdogs]

Whole Foods is an amazing store, I love shopping there. I have yet to go to a Trader Joe's. Can anyone tell me the differences?

[willy]

Can anyone tell me the differences?

From what I've read Trader Joe's is cheaper. TJ's has a pirate theme with food signs written on wooden planks. The manager is referred to as the captain and the assistant manager's is the first mate. The Whole Foods design is clean and cheerful, modern but designed to not intimidate. Whole Foods is probably like Fresh Market on Laskin. I've never been to WF or TJ's so I'm only going on what I've read.

[hoobo]

Whole Foods is an amazing store, I love shopping there. I have yet to go to a Trader Joe's. Can anyone tell me the differences?

There are a few posts over the past week discussing the differences. Here are a couple quick links to the more detailed comments.

Comment #1

Comment #2

Comment #3

Comment #4

[Former Resident of HR]

From what I've read Trader Joe's is cheaper. TJ's has a pirate theme with food signs written on wooden planks. The manager is referred to as the captain and the assistant manager's is the first mate. The Whole Foods design is clean and cheerful, modern but designed to not intimidate. Whole Foods is probably like Fresh Market on Laskin. I've never been to WF or TJ's so I'm only going on what I've read.

Whole Foods is more like Fresh Market meets a massive mark-up and a lot bigger. It's definatley the Saks/Bloomies of grocery shopping. I would imagine that it would be a better fit at Hilltop or upper Jefferson/Williamsburg. I have secretly hoped that they do not go to TC because they are overhyped and overpriced (I would rather spend my dollars at Fresh Market which is at least regionally owned) but with PETA hq here I am surprised that we don't have one at all. Again, I think that with so many other stores, the market is determined by the bean counters and not simple common sense...

[erdogs]

I'm sorry but the Fresh Market was a dissapointment for me. What separates Whole Foods from them is the selection of organic items and you can get a great healthy cooked dinner. When it comes to size, I would rather have more of a selection on items you can't find anywhere else. It's not the size of the store but what's in it. That's why people go to places like Trader Joe's and whole foods.

[metalman]

So, my wife and a friend of ours went to Gordon Biersch Brewery Restaurant last night at about 10pm...

oh, BTW if anyone cares or remembers me writing that I was engaged- I got married last month on the 24th! Last week we went on our honeymoon. We took a week-long Carnival Cruise out of Miami to Nassau, Bahamas; St. Thomas, US Virgin Islands; and St. Maarten/St. Martin (One side is Dutch, the other is French, hence to two different spellings). It was a blast! anyway...

Gordon Biersch- It was great. Its kind of segmented into three sections- the front lower section is the sports bar-ish area with flat screens on the walls, there is a raised middle section that is non-smoking and a more cozy section on the VB blvd side that is smoking. They have a big room that houses all the fermenting vats and the cooks are able to be seen. Being that is was our first time there the waitress offered us a sample tasting of all of there beers. It would be free but VA law requires purchase of alcohol, so they charge a whopping 5 cents. They brought out 5 shot glass (basically). The only one they didn't have yet was the seasonal brew. But, they'll get that in a few week. If you read the description of the beer first you can really taste the difference between each type. I'm not much off a beer person at all. I prefer cider myself, but I really enjoyed there Hefewiezen (had a spice to it), and Schwartzbier (had a dark coffee bean kind of flavor). It was $4.75 for a .5 liter glass and $4.25 for a .4 liter glass. The food was good-pizza, burgers, pastas, salads-but, I'd go there more for the beer than the food.

Thumbs up!

Metalman

[urbanvb]

Congrats on the wedding, Metalman! Thanks for the update on the brewery. Everytime I have drove by the seem busy so hopefully they will do well there at TC.