Hurricane Katrina - the aftermath

[Brandon]

Not trying to bring politics into it, it was just an interesting story that shows that efforts were being made for years to improve the levee systems.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, no. I didnt think you did. We seem to have a general problem in this country of "too little too late" Had we had the concern about oil ten years ago that we have now that gas has tripled in price over the past five years, perhaps we wouldn't have had to worry so much about energy now. Had we spent the money to improve NO before this horrible disaster, perhaps we wouldn't be having this discussion on rebuilding her now. I think our leadership needs to be a lot more proactive.

[RiversideGator]

This whole let's abandon the city argument is absurd. First, the city has, even with all its problems, more character and history than Jacksonville, Orlando and Charlotte put together (and better restaurants). Second, it is in a good location for the surrounding industry and has a huge tourist industry. And, third, if they had competent government, the threat of floods would go away. The real problem is NO is that people have been predicting big flooding like this for years (and it has happened before with Betsy in 1965) but nothing has been done to effectively improve the levees. This illustrates the complete incompetence of the local officials.

As for Bush, why is it the responsibility of the federal government to build levees in New Orleans? This seems to me to be a quintessentially local issue. If we need a bridge in Jacksonville, we pay for the new bridge. If they need levees in New Orleans, they should pay for them there. Perhaps if the local government was more concerned with public safety than corruption and renaming schools named for George Washington and historical figures for black relative unknowns, this would not have happened.

[dnast]

I might be off topic, but it's too long to read. I just stopped in to send my condolences all of you with any kind of connection to NOLA and the rest of the gulf area. You're in our prayers.

[tombarnes]

There is a fire at Canal and Common Street (?) at the edge of the French Quarter. I hope they get it put out before it spreads wildly.....A conflagration would be hard to stop, given the limited resources of the city at present.

[PeninsulaKiddo]

We could debate what all led to the city literally being crippled by incompetence and poor planning and we can infinitely debate the politics... but I think it's all without due purpose. After all, what has happened can't be undone and now we have to focus on rebuilding the city. I don't think the US has had a natural disaster even remotely comparable to this in its history. People throw around numbers like $100 billion as though that's totally ludicrous, but the 1995 Kobe Earthquake was estimated between 100-150 billion and I'm not entirely sure it was terribly worse in scope. I'll gladly give kudos to the government (the Federal government) for pulling together and quickly trying to get things on track. The local NO and LA governments... well... I wish them luck. They've screwed themselves over. Someone said a few posts back that it is the NO and LA governments that are responsible for building the levees and they're right. The nation shouldn't pay the price for Louisiana's poor planning (and frankly unintelligible locations for building cities.....), but I think we owe it to them to help them get back on their feet after the fact. Hundreds of thousands of people are now homeless and the city, in (as the media has reported) at least 80% of it, will have to be almost totally rebuilt.

The leadership of the city of New Orleans in particular leaves a lot to be desired IMHO. Maybe it'll finally do some good for its residents.

[Aessotariq]

As for Bush, why is it the responsibility of the federal government to build levees in New Orleans?  This seems to me to be a quintessentially local issue.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because the federal government built them.

Building bridges and flood control systems are apples and oranges. I very seriously doubt that any local government could shoulder the billions in capital expenditures required to build these systems. This is a state and federal responsibility.

It was the Army Corps of Engineers that built the current system as it exists today. After they build these kinds of systems, it is typically left to the states to maintain them. Louisiana does this via its Levee Districts. There's only so much money to maintain, let alone expand or upgrade the systems.

A local example I'm better familiar with: here in Miami the county only builds and maintains secondary canal systems for local drainage, but it falls on a state agency, the South Florida Water Management District, to maintain the primary systems that the Army Corps built (the Central and Southern Florida Project).

[PeninsulaKiddo]

There is a fire at Canal and Common Street (?) at the edge of the French Quarter.  I hope they get it put out before it spreads wildly.....A conflagration would be hard to stop, given the limited resources of the city at present.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The news just keeps getting better

[TSmith]

PLEASE READ THIS... You cannot base your opinion on wether or not New Orleans should be rebuilt based on the failings of a levee system that was DESIGNED FOR A CATEGORY 3 HURRICANE.

What New Orleans needs is a levee system capable of protecting against a category 5. Until that effort is made, my city isn't going anywhere.

[tombarnes]

Canal and Bourbon Street...

[MJLO]

stopping by to send my prayers, I've got much love for my brethren, in NO, I've always loved this city.

I think the notion to say that the rest of the nation shouldn't have to pay for the placement of a city is beyond ludacy! New Orleans has been located on lake ponch for HUNDREDS of years! It is one of the most renown and favored cities in the United States, To suggest that the leadership of the city is to blame for the levee's failing is insensitive and wrong. In 01' the Trade center tower withstood the impact of a 737 a plane bigger than it's engineers designed, It was the ensuing blaze, that melted the frame causing the buildings to colapse in on themselves. The levee's in NO initially withstood the impact of hurricane Katrina, It was the ensuing massive storm surge that has caused them to fail. It's not the leaderships fault. We are American's we stand behind our own! Why shouldn't we help rebuild such a great and charismatic place that so many people call home. Pennisula kiddo you should apologize for suggesting such an insensitive thing.

[PeninsulaKiddo]

I don't think you read my whole post.

I said that we should help to rebuild, but I'm in Virginia, therefore I shouldn't pay for their levees. This is an unprecedented natural disaster and I DO believe we should all come together to help New Orleans. It is indeed a city famous (or infamous?) for its history and charms and its goodly Southern charm. I want to see the city rise again and become something more than we lost.

Frankly though, it is the fault of the state government, if not local. They should've built the levees to withstand a five. Camille was less than 100 miles away and was a five (in 1969) therefore they had over 30 years to prepare for one of similar scope. They didn't. They built the city where it is and how they chose to and its geography screwed it over. I'm not saying I'm not sorry to see what's happened: it is beyond tragic and something I imagine I'll tell my grandchildren about as I'm sure people who lived through Andrew or Camille will do (or have done), but nonetheless, it is the faults of those who failed to see a disaster looming and grew ignorant due to "New Orleans luck" as CNN so eloquently put it.

And btw, I only apologize when I am wrong, which I am often enough, but I'm not this time.

[sleepy]

One important lesson we learned in Charleston was better hurricane evacuation plans, and I have to say that New Orleans was subpar at best in this department. Procedures should have been set in place to allow only outbound traffic on ALL lanes of the interstates, including the lanes normally going inbound. And this should have been allowed all the way up to Jackson, practically. Because of the substandard evac procedures and with all the traffic that was on the highways, many people did not leave the area. Let us all pray for the victims and their families.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

New Orleans had contraflow on routes out of the city, and apparently the evacuation went well. By 4PM Sunday, I-10 was almost deserted.

The people who either stayed or didn't go to a shelter made that decision on their own.

Consider too that New Orleans is more than double the size of Charleston and with limited ways in or out.

[btoy]

I may be wrong here but it is my understanding that NO was not always below sea level, that it sits on a salt dome that is receeding and causing the city to sink. Is this correct?

[SOSaD]

Global warming sucks

[vdogg]

hen that much money pours into one spot, private investment normally follows.

Anyway, I'm predicting that New Orleans is one the verge of a boom.  San Fransico, Chicago

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You have a good point that i didn't really think about. Chicago burnt to the ground as was rebuilt in a manner that caused it to become the great city that it is today. Still, New Orleans is in quite a unique situation that none of the other cities faced. I think we will learn in the coming days, as we get a sense for the full cost of this calamity, exactly how much will be possible in terms of rebuilding New Orleans to it's former self.

[krazeeboi]

Firstly, my heart and prayers go out to the good people of the Gulf Coast region of the US.

Does anyone know of any coverage going on in other cities about the refugees that are now displaced in those cities?

[TSmith]

PeninsulaKiddo, you're right about the levees. There is no excuse for building levees that were known to have the possiblity of being topped, and breached. Believe me, being from New Orleans, we have talked about this for decades. We knew this could happen, but nothing was done to prevent it. The money wasn't there, and the public will wasn't there. But I agree, it will take a total re-engineering of the levee system to truly bring this city back... that's the bottome line. I think it's worth the 3 billion to re-engineeer the levees, but that's just me.

Thank you all for your support. I've read all the wellwishes in this thread, and I apprieciate it.

[PeninsulaKiddo]

It's such a beautiful city aesthetically and I hope that irregardless of how they rebuild, it maintains its architectural styles and charms. I hope, too, that no matter how they proceed to rebuild they build it safer and more thought-out. While it's sad to say it in this way, just a while ago while watching CNN I noticed the beauty of its skyline and despite the immense damage I think vdogg hit it right: it'll come back booming. San Fran did it remarkably and Chicago as well. Some of the southern cities (Richmond was burned to the ground) have done the same. I pray that this is going to be told by history as "the city's turning point from dark days into a brighter tomorrow". Cliche, but true.

[ericurbanite]

I strongly disagree about the whole global warming caused this hurricane. I mean at this time of year the gulf waters are always hot. Theres been hurricanes since we can remember and I just dont think its fair to blame global warming on this hurricane that is if there is "global warming". It gets cold in winters, and hot in summers its been the same since I can remember with very little temperature difference.

[Aporkalypse]

You have a good point that i didn't really think about. Chicago burnt to the ground as was rebuilt in a manner that caused it to become the great city that it is today. Still, New

Orleans is in quite a unique situation that none of the other cities faced. I think we will learn in the coming days, as we get a sense for the full cost of this calamity, exactly how much will be possible in terms of rebuilding New Orleans to it's former self.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

New Orleans will be rebuilt and uptown, the Garden District and the Quarter will be just as nice in a few years. However, the many older wards in the city proper filled with wooden shotgun houses in poor condition are going to be a big problem. Moreover, I wonder how many residents will leave for Houston, Dallas, Shreveport, Birmingham, etc and just stay there. I'm not sure what will happen to New Orleans but it can never be the same city it used to be.

[PeninsulaKiddo]

New Orleans will be rebuilt and uptown, the Garden District and the Quarter will be just as nice in a few years.  However, the many older wards in the city proper filled with wooden shotgun houses in poor condition are going to be a big problem.  Moreover, I wonder how many residents will leave for Houston, Dallas, Shreveport, Birmingham, etc and just stay there.  I'm not sure what will happen to New Orleans but it can never be the same city it used to be.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know that a few people are moving out of the city after this. My friend's boyfriend has family down there that lost everything and are now moving up here. His cousin was also murdered about a month ago so now they're pretty much fed up with New Orleans... I dunno... so many people lost their homes.. it'll take many months to find out what's going on with the residents.

[krazeeboi]

Here's a question:

Do you think that Katrina will be retired as a hurricane name?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It has to be.

I haven't read through all of the posts in this thread, but has NCB posted lately?

[vdogg]

New Orleans will be rebuilt and uptown, the Garden District and the Quarter will be just as nice in a few years.  However, the many older wards in the city proper filled with wooden shotgun houses in poor condition are going to be a big problem.  Moreover, I wonder how many residents will leave for Houston, Dallas, Shreveport, Birmingham, etc and just stay there.  I'm not sure what will happen to New Orleans but it can never be the same city it used to be.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I haven't seen this posted yet.

Thousands feared dead

[Aporkalypse]

I strongly disagree about the whole global warming caused this hurricane.  I mean at this time of year the gulf waters are always hot.  Theres been hurricanes since we can remember and I just dont think its fair to blame global warming on this hurricane that is if there is "global warming".  It gets cold in winters, and hot in summers its been the same since I can remember with very little temperature difference.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We have been in an unusually hurricane-poor cycle since the 1960s and we are finally seeing a resurgence. Hurricanes were extremely frequent in the 1960s (see Camille) and in the 1920s-1930s, when Miami was destroyed and later the Keys and the Overseas Railway were flattened..

Global warming only causes hurricanes in bad movies, there's no science to support that. Temperatures over 80 deg F are enough to create hurricanes and in equatorial West Africa in the Summer, that's just the way things are, global warming or not. Studies have shown that while global warming would not increase the frequency of storms, it could possibly increase their severity by about 10% or so. However, global warming itself is highly debatable.

[vdogg]

However, global warming itself is highly debatable.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, that's not totally correct. Most sides agree that global warming is occuring, the cause of that warming is whats being debated. Is it natural, human, or both?