Hurricane Katrina - the aftermath

[Aessotariq]

I agree... you can't escape natural disaster. Either you're going to have to deal with hurricanes, tornadoes, mudslides, fires, floods, sandstorms, droughts, blizzards, or earthquakes. Take your pick, or move to another planet.

At least with hurricanes, you know when they are coming.

And we certainly seem to have no problem spending billions of dollars elsewhere... this is chump change compared to some other things we're spending on right now.

[Brandon]

Well if we aren't going to rebuild New Orleans, maybe we should stop building along any coast, since a Hurricane is possible anywhere. Maybe we should stop building anything in California because earthquakes might happen, and maybe we should abandon the midwest because its so prone to tornadoes.

I can see the point of those arguing against the rebuilding of New Orleans, it is geographically less then ideal, but compare it to what we have spent in Iraq...

[sleepy]

With the news reports I've seen, it seems almost pointless to ask...but does anyone have any information on the English Turn neighborhood in New Orleans? Is it underwater as well?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

From what I've read Algiers is dry and looks to be in good shape.

http://www.nola.com/weblogs/nola/index.ssf..._08.html#075160

"Walnut Bend and the Algiers area is reported to be doing well, with clean water and gas service."

Also, if you go to that link and scroll down, you'll find links to forums about various New Orleans neighborhoods.

[torgo]

From what I've read Algiers is dry and looks to be in good shape.

http://www.nola.com/weblogs/nola/index.ssf..._08.html#075160

"Walnut Bend and the Algiers area is reported to be doing well, with clean water and gas service."

Also, if you go to that link and scroll down, you'll find links to forums about various New Orleans neighborhoods.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Apparently St. Bernard Parish is pretty much gone.

On the bright(er) side, the Lake level is falling, and currently there are few environmental problems with regard to oil spills, chemical spills, etc.

[sleepy]

In terms of this "rebuild or not rebuild" business--

It appears that few buildings in New Orleans suffered the sort of wind/wave structural damage that buildings did in Mississippi. The city isn't flattened, it's flooded.

So basically what you're talking about is water damage.

When I first lived in New Orleans, I lived in a house that still had a watermark on the side of the house--8 feet up--from hurricane Betsy. That building was perfectly habitable.

I was there for the May 3rd flood in 1978 when three-fourths of the homes had water in them--some up to the roofs--and there were canoes on St. Charles Avenue.

Since then there have been numerous floods--the last one before I moved was in May, 1995, and that was even worse than the 1978 flood.

My point is--once people put up new sheetrock and new carpets, things looked just the same as before. This time of course, most will need new roofs.

So, in terms of physical damage only, the actual "rebuilding" may not be the issue it's made out to be.

[bobliocatt]

Great point Plasticman!

Bravo!

Also I agree LA and SF are on the fault line, and after they go down in flames I wouldn't want to reinvest billions on recreating a city founded and grown on a fault line.  I just don't think business people will want to come and invest in N.O. anymore, remember Galveston was once the Paris of the south, then a Hurricane flooded it in 1901, and it never was a big city again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What was the pre-hurricane population of Galveston? It couldn't have been close to 100,000, thus it was never really a large city in the first place. Since Houston was short distance away and the oil industry was getting ready to boom, its not boxed in like Galveston, there's a good chance it would have outgrown Galveston in population and prominance anyway.

I'm sure billions of federal money will come to help built new levees with the latest technology, roads and transit infrastructure. When that much money pours into one spot, private investment normally follows.

Anyway, I'm predicting that New Orleans is one the verge of a boom. San Fransico, Chicago, Miami, Jacksonville and even Japan all boomed after major diasters tore apart their cities. New Orleans still has its history, unique culture, be a major port at the mouth of the Mississippi, lots of oil and a majority of its neighborhoods will still be intact, once the water receeds. All of these are assets you can't take away from it.

[monsoon]

I'm unsure about the re-building of New Orleans. However it appears that a large portion of the damage in Mississippi is due to careless and reckless building of homes on extremely marginal land. A lot of these places were barely sandbars in the first place. It is this type of building that should be stopped. I personally think it is irresponsible of people to build million dollar homes on sandbars where they can get a good view, then expect the federal government to rebuild their places when mother nature has its way.

Of course the government will rebuild everything.

[sleepy]

What was the pre-hurricane population of Galveston?  It couldn't have been close to 100,000, thus it was never really a large city in the first place.  Since Houston was short distance away and the oil industry was getting ready to boom, its not boxed in like Galveston, there's a good chance it would have outgrown Galveston in population and prominance anyway.

I'm sure billions of federal money will come to help built new levees with the latest technology, roads and transit infrastructure.  When that much money pours into one spot, private investment normally follows.

Anyway, I'm predicting that New Orleans is one the verge of a boom.  San Fransico, Chicago, Miami, Jacksonville and even Japan all boomed after major diasters tore apart their cities.  New Orleans still has its history, unique culture, be a major port at the mouth of the Mississippi, lots of oil and a majority of its neighborhoods will still be intact, once the water receeds.  All of these are assets you can't take away from it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1890 100 largest US city pops:

http://www.census.gov/population/documenta...s0027/tab12.txt

1900 100 largest US city pops:

http://www.census.gov/population/documenta...s0027/tab13.txt

Galveston isn't on either list which means that in 1890, it had no more than around 30,000. San Antonio was the only city in Texas in 1890 in the top 100.

By 1900, San Antonio, Houston, and Dallas are both in the top 100. Again, no Galveston.

There's going to be a ton of reconstruction money heading to New Orleans and, perversely, it's economy will boom.

[OE-305]

For those of you saying it is time to abandon New Orleans instead of spending several billion dollars to fix the problem while our government wastes billions on porkbarrel projects and ill-advised ventures, I have one thing to say. Imagine a 9.0 earthquake occurring in Los Angeles. Damage estimates would exceed even what you are seeing in New Orleans. If this happens, and one day it will, do you propose we abandon Los Angeles forever? I mean, they built that city on a major fault, didn't they? Think about what you are saying before you say it... that's all I ask.

This desruction in New Orleans CAN BE PREVENTED!! Earthquakes cannot. If we have the will, we can protect New Orleans from flooding... it's a simple matter of building flood controls that are adequate. Los Angeles and many other cities in CA are sitting ducks, however. Think about this. It IS preventable.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with your view of the CA cities.... although its not really possible for the San Andreas to produce magnitude 9s (8 is about its maximum). This is a red herring on your part.

I don't really think you're seeing the real picture about NO, however. There is no way that the gov't. can prevent future flooding from occuring there in the next storm. (Please read my last post for clarity this time and you'll see why). If anything, this storm probably eroded a tremdous portion of the Mississippi Delta, leaving even less real estate between the city and the sea.

If the country is going to spend upwards of 50 billion to rebuild NO, then they need to do it right and relocate it well inland. I would have no problem with this then.

[bobliocatt]

So what happens when a big hurricane hits the NYC or Boston? Natural diasters are a part of human life and can't be avoid, regardless of where your location is.

[sleepy]

If the country is going to spend upwards of 50 billion to rebuild NO, then they need to do it right and relocate it well inland.  I would have no problem with this then.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Aside from immediate disaster assistance, it's not the "country" doing the spending. It's private insurance companies.

And I tend to suspect that the majority of insurance money will be spent on the Gulf Coast, which had the blown out buildings, not New Orleans which didn't.

What New Orleans needs is emergency disaster assistance.

New Orleans isn't some government installation that the government can order relocated. People will get their insurance checks and are free to do what they want. Thousands and thousands of individual property owners will make those decisions.

What is meant by relocating a city anyway? They could just rename Baton Rouge, New Orleans, tomorrow.

[sleepy]

I'm unsure about the re-building of New Orleans.  However it appears that a large portion of the damage in Mississippi is due to careless and reckless building of homes on extremely marginal land.  A lot of these places were barely sandbars in the first place.  It is this type of building that should be stopped.  I personally think it is irresponsible of people to build million dollar homes on sandbars where they can get a good view, then expect the federal government to rebuild their places when mother nature has its way.

Of course the government will rebuild everything.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Gulfport isn't built on a sandbar or barrier island. It's on the pine-forested mainland. Gulfport's elevation is 25 feet and is probably as high as any coastal city in the southeast.

The barrier islands are ten miles offshore. In fact, the water at Gulfport is really Mississippi Sound--with tepid little 6 inch waves most of the time. The Gulf starts at the barrier islands.

The beachfront houses there aren't really on the beach. Between them and the water is a 4 lane highway and a seawall.

I guess the pictures after a 25 foot storm surge make it look like a sandbar.

What I thought was incredibly stupid was to put all those casinos on barges on the water. I knew when I first walked into one 12 years ago, that their day would come.

[Brandon]

What I thought was incredibly stupid was to put all those casinos on barges on the water.  I knew when I first walked into one 12 years ago, that their day would come.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've never understood the laws that require the casinos to float anyway!

[Aessotariq]

I guess they were concerned about casinos proliferating beyond the rivers and gulf. I mentioned this elsewhere but I hope this stupid law is changed. Every single casino barge on the gulf was destroyed. One of the easiest solutions would be to establish special taxing districts and keep them confined to those defined areas.

[cinco]

i know this question has already been posed...where the hell is the aid for these people, our countrymen? i know i don't really know whats going on there and only see what the media is showing, but i haven't seen much of a recovery effort. is it we're in shock? were we not prepared? are our resources tapped out (a war)? i am trying to remain level headed about this thing, its just that i don't see the effort our country is renowned for. am i missing the big picture? if so, please someone give me some information.

[GRDadof3]

Well if we aren't going to rebuild New Orleans, maybe we should stop building along any coast, since a Hurricane is possible anywhere. Maybe we should stop building anything in California because earthquakes might happen, and maybe we should abandon the midwest because its so prone to tornadoes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Many insurance companies have stopped providing coverage along the entire ocean coasts of the country, in essence saying that they cannot collect enough premiums to cover losses like what we are seeing. And as far as the Midwest and tornadoes, there is no comparison. Tornadoes don't even come close to the total widespread destruction that hurricanes and large earthquakes create. In fact, in my 30+ years on this planet living in Michigan, I have yet to see a tornado, and have only seen limited tornado damage (knock on wood).

Contibute all that you can to the relief efforts.

[ericurbanite]

hey cinco, alot of the problem with the recovery effort is how do you mobilize units or people in there?? There is no way to really navigate roads using vehicles. All of the trees that are down, powerlines, standing water. It is a long process. I'm not sure if you have been in a hurricane but it takes time. I was in hurricane fran/floyd (nothing like katrina) and I couldnt get out to anywhere for about 5 days untill trees were off the road and creeks over bridges werent flooded still. Just think about all the trees on the roads that have to be removed just to get to people. There is not a lack of military either, there is plenty of reservists to deal with this, and there is plenty of states grouping together for various relief efforts.

[Charleston native]

I am really feeling for the people in New Orleans, Gulfport, and Biloxi. I was living in my hometown when Hugo came in 1989, and there was massive destruction everywhere. The important thing to do in this situation is to dust yourself off, pick up the pieces, and start rebuilding.

One important lesson we learned in Charleston was better hurricane evacuation plans, and I have to say that New Orleans was subpar at best in this department. Procedures should have been set in place to allow only outbound traffic on ALL lanes of the interstates, including the lanes normally going inbound. And this should have been allowed all the way up to Jackson, practically. Because of the substandard evac procedures and with all the traffic that was on the highways, many people did not leave the area. Let us all pray for the victims and their families.

[sleepy]

i know this question has already been posed...where the hell is the aid for these people, our countrymen? i know i don't really know whats going on there and only see what the media is showing, but i haven't seen much of a recovery effort. is it we're in shock? were we not prepared? are our resources tapped out (a war)? i am trying to remain level headed about this thing, its just that i don't see the effort our country is renowned for. am i missing the big picture? if so, please someone give me some information.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, their main concern right now is rescue. As I understand it, there are dozens of helicopters flying around picking people up from roofs. And they're evacuating hospitals as well.

The other concern today is the Corps of Engineers is dropping 3000 lb. sandbags attempting to plug the levees.

There won't be any recovery effort beyond that until the people are safe and they can begin to drain the water out.

[monsoon]

I was flabberghasted to hear one of the ACOE or FEMA engineers state the design specification for the dike system around New Orleans was only to withstand a Category 3 hurricane. What were they thinking? Surely they must have realized in today's reality of global warming, the chances of getting hit by a hurricane stronger than this were pretty good.

[bobliocatt]

I found this to be an interesting read

Money To Repair Breached Levees Was Diverted to Iraq War

http://www.pnionline.com/dnblog/attytood/a...ves/002331.html

[Brandon]

I found this to be an interesting read

Money To Repair Breached Levees Was Diverted to Iraq War

http://www.pnionline.com/dnblog/attytood/a...ves/002331.html

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is interesting. I was thinking earlier today..."If only the money spent in Iraq had been used to strengthen the levees" I had no idea that the ACOE budget had been cut by that much.

Bravo to Bush...Im surprised he hasnt raised the terror level and blamed Katrina on "terrorists"

[PeninsulaKiddo]

In all fairness, don't point the finger at Bush. He didn't build the city 6 feet below sea level in the first place, nor was he a part of the founding and illogical construction of the city many decades and centuries ago. He has the tendency to pull through in times of crisis, and I hope he does so again.

As far as there "not being any aid" visible on CNN of MSNBC etc... it's like this with any hurricane. The media only works with pictures and stories. They didn't mention the tsunami on the news for two days after it actually occurred because they can't report something if they can't show us. If they don't see aid being given out, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist (I remember that with Hurrican Isabel--albeit a much weaker hurricane yet still devastating--you would think FEMA didn't exist by what the media portrayed). In this moment, there are probably still several thousand people dying or trapped and they need to be rescued before reconstruction can begin, and it likely won't begin immediately in Biloxi or Gulf Port or New Orleans. They have to actually GET the national guard and FEMA there first (which is hard to do with the extensive and incomparable damage).

It's a sad situation and frankly will put Andrew, Camille, or Hugo to shame, I believe. I just hope that when New Orleans begins reconstruction they somehow find a way to make the city safer. Build the whole damned town on stilts if you think it'll save lives and protect the citizens. Do something more than what has been done to this point.

[Brandon]

In all fairness, don't point the finger at Bush.

You're right. I apologize for bringing politics into a more important discussion.

[bobliocatt]

Not trying to bring politics into it, it was just an interesting story that shows that efforts were being made for years to improve the levee systems.