Hurricane Katrina - the aftermath

[goodbye]

I believe you can put thoughts of abandoning New Orleans to rest.  I'm fairly certain it will be rebuilt.  The cultural loss would be incalculable if it were to be abandoned.  It's unthinkable, even though the "unthinkable" may have just occurred.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm confident that it could indeed be rebuilt, but will the cost be worth it and how long will it take the government workers and volunteers? I see it being a long time before this city rises to its previous splendor. Not a single building is left untouched, and the water damage will cause many structures to become unsafe without extra support. We'll just have to wait and see...

[peaceloveunderstanding]

ee it being a long time before this city rises to its previous splendor.

No, it will be rebuilt into a city like a city is today. It won't have its charm.

[tombarnes]

Of course the cost is worth it. I just hope they will have the good sense to insist upon carefully following historic guidelines when it is rebuilt. It would be tragic to discard the cultural history of New Orleans. If we do replace the city with characterless WalMart sprawl, we will be poorer as a country for it. No. This must be done carefully and deliberately. Planning guidelines must be put into effect and adhered to. This would be an excellent opportunity to build a light rail/rapid rail network for the entire region.

[goodbye]

More important than the historic replication is the fact that it would remain below sea-level. The cost rebuild something that could be lost again would be considered too great for many. What is the smartest option?

[tombarnes]

More important than the historic replication is the fact that it would remain below sea-level.  The cost rebuild something that could be lost again would be considered too great for many.  What is the smartest option?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I still don't think it's likely that they will rebuild the city elsewhere. Time will tell, but the casinos on the coast have pledged to rebuild, and I doubt New Orleans will be left to the wolves.

[ironchapman]

I posted this in the San Antonio forum:

Apparently, the Saints will make a temporary move to San Antonio until the situation in New Orleans is resolved.

[goodbye]

I posted this in the San Antonio forum:

Apparently, the Saints will make a temporary move to San Antonio until the situation in New Orleans is resolved.

...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's nice to hear. Can you imagine how many people have no real home anymore?

[TSmith]

An update for all my friends at UP.org... Just got off the cell with my cousin, the NOPD cop. As far as the looting, it is serious, and some cops have shot and killed some looters. Not confirmed. The flooding is getting worse as we speak. Waters from the breach at the 17th Street Canal are rushing in. Areas from downtown, the French Quarter, Lakeview, and uptown can expect rising waters and are urged to seek higher structures. What else can I say... this is the worst case scenario, and it's playing out worse than I ever expected. The westbank of Orleans Parish has fared well... no flooding, trees down, some roof damage. But, water is safe.

As for rebuilding the city... although the task seems impossible at this time, we will rebuild. New Orleans will be back. And I urge all of you to do what you can to help. But, to so many of us, New Orleans is a part of our soul. To me, and NCB and Alon504, the city is like a family member. New Orleanians have a special relationship with their city. She wasn't perfect, and she had her problems, but the lives we had there were fulfilling. Living in New Orleans, you get the feeling everyday that you are in a much different place. That you are having experiences and enjoying different nuances everyday that were different from the ordinary. The community is tight-knit, and it shares in everyday things that are uniquely New Orleans. We will rebuild, and in the process, we won't sell our soul. We'll be marked by this forever. Jazz and Blues songs will be written about this trajedy. We will not accept anything less than the old New Orleans that we know and love, and we will achieve this goal, with your help.

And please, visit our city in the coming years. New Orleans needs you, and locals want you to visit. We will rebuild, and we will be the same New Orleans... you watch. Mardi Gras 2006 will be a celebration of our recovery.

[Aessotariq]

Believe you me, New Orleans must be rebuilt and the new New Orleans will be recover. It won't ever be the same, but it will come back better than ever.

[goodbye]

I am greatly encouraged by your confidence and enthusiasm, TSmith. I sincerely hope that every effort will be made to ensure New Orleans does indeed completely recover to its recent and historic status, and that the government will ensure the city's future safety from this same tragedy. I plan to visit New Orleans in the near future (maybe much sooner than I think).

[Aessotariq]

I remember reading somewhere that estimates for upgrading the city's flood control system would have cost anywhere around $15 billion, before this event. It will probably be much higher now, but whatever the cost, I think it's worth every single penny.

It is my understanding that, before this disaster, the city faced the precarious distinction of not only being surrounded by water bodies whose levels were rising, but also being built on soils that are also settling... So not only was the water rising around them but the city was also sinking.

I've been thinking about this, and I am not an expert by any means, but based on my limited experience with visiting the city and looking at its geography, I wonder how feasible (or even how effective) it would be to do some of these things:

• It seems like they could build a wide canal somewhere west of the city, to divert part of the river water away south, with control devices such as spillways that could keep the river level deep enough to be used as a port yet low enough that the city would have an alternate place to drain besides Lake Pontchartrain.

• Dredge the bottom of the Mississippi River and Lake Pontchartrain and use the dirt as fill to raise and rebuild the lowest-lying areas of the city. Where I live it's not uncommon to dig a large pit and create an artificial lake connected to a canal for drainage, and then use the dirt to raise the level of the houses, which surround this new "lake", to mean elevation (I'm not suggesting digging lakes in the "bathtub"). We also depend on a complex system of levees, canals, pumps, and spillways to stay dry, the major difference being that we're above sea level. One problem I just realized as I wrote this is that the soil would probably be very soft and could turn to mud in heavy rain.

If anybody here has some expert insight into the ideas I've brainstormed or perhaps what would be better, I'd really look forward to hearing them.

[goodbye]

Wish I could help with these ideas, but I have absolutely no expertise in this field. Something drastic will have to be done before the city can rebuild in its current location. The hurricane season is entering its peak-time now.

[Southron]

New Orleans will be back. The spirit of her people is far superior to the destructive effects of even a catastrophic hurricane.

[TSmith]

About to get some much needed rest. But I want to chime in on a possible solution to our problems with flooding. As we all know, New Orleans was innundated with water from Lake Ponchartrain. The storm surge entered the lake through a relatively narrow pass... approximately 8 miles wide or so. One step would solve the city's flooding problems from the lake being fillled... build a floodwall accross this pass, along the side of the I-10 twinspan. This would stamp out the problem at it's source by blocking water from entering the lake in the first place. The floodwall would be able to be raised in times when hurricanes are not threatening, allowing vital tiadal flow. Hurricane approaches... the floodwall is lowered into place. This plan has been discussed, but funding the project was hopeless. I believe that now we will get the funds, and this project will get top priority.

[OE-305]

I hate to say it folks, but, it's time for New Orleans to throw in the towel.

For a very comphrensive overview of southeastern Louisiana's situation, check out the October 2001 issue of Scientific American. There is a 10 page article entitled "Drowning New Orleans" by Mark Fischette.... google it for yourselves. Much of what this article predicted seems to have come true.

southern LA facts according to this 2001 article:

- produces 1/3 of the US's seafood

- 1/5 of our oil

- 1/4 of our natural gas

- facilities along the Miss. River from New Orleans to Baton Rouge make up the largest port in the country

Something else for you all to ponder:

Subsidence of the Miss. delta is a natural process. However, human activities here have greatly accelerated this process. Take for instance the Corps of Engineers channeling of the River. Sediments that are carried downriver in times of flooding used to get deposited up on the floodplains, and essentially kept the subsiding land above sea level. This was also an important source of sand for the barrier islands (that really don't exist now, or have reatreated greatly). Nowadays the sediments are flushed down the main channel and into the gulf further south.

Draining of the swamps and the pumping out of groundwater has also led to further susidence of several feet in parts of the city (oops!).

The oil industry has hastened NO's evential demise by cutting numerous navigation and pipeline canals through the marshes that serve protect the delta and the city. Salt water from the sea works its way up these man made channels and destroys the wetlands. Without the plants, the delta quickly erodes into the sea during storms.

It is said that LA loses one acre of swamp land every 24 minutes. That comes out to 25-30 square miles per year. By 2090, parts of New Orleans will be beach front property as all of the protective delta around it will be gone.

I encourage people who are interested in these types of things to audit some geology classes at your local college/university.

Having said all that, saving NO is like saving a sand castle on the low tide bar as the tide is coming in. I don't want my tax dollars wasted on a dying city.

It's too bad I never got to see it though. And my heart goes out to my old college roomie (and good friend) that's from there. I haven't been able to get in contact with him or his family for days now.

[goodbye]

More cryptic dialogue, and this seems to support my gut feeling, despite my desire for residents of the once great city to reclaim their homes.

[cityboi]

As far as looting goes, I don't blame people for taking food and water. New Orleans residents have no clean water to drink no food becasue everything is closed and they cant really go anywhere. Now I think people shouldnt be going around stealing tv, clothes, ect. but food and water I can understand. The stores have insurance so they should just go ahead a let these people at least get basic nessecities such as food and water. I'd steal food and water too before Id get sick or die of dehydration. Many of these people have children and babies. In a situation like this, you have to do what you have to do to survive.

[btoy]

I don't think they have much choice right now.  NO is not going to stop flooding until the water reaches sea-level, and then the task of trying to dam up the waters again and pump the water back out will take an enormous amout of money and time.  Then the entire infrastructure will have to be cleaned up and rebuilt in some cases before it could be reinhabited.  It is a serious mess!

Edit:  You'll have to take into consideration the fact that disease will play a large role in the inhabitability of the area as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Someone on Foxnews made a good point about this. They mentioned that disease was a big fear witht the tsunami in Bade Ache and though they had some it wasn't to problem feared. His point was that they are thrid world and we are a first world contry, if they were able to get though with little desease maybe we can as well.

Bi difference though, their water receded back into the ocean, while NO's is going to be sticking around for a while.

BTW, yall heard the reports of a 3 foot shark swimming around Downtown.

Also, todays sports page in the Greenville News had an article about Brett Farve, apparently his family home is Mississippi is a total loss.

[RiverwoodCLT]

TSmith, NCB and Alon504, none of us I have experence what you have. Hopeful

all of you will be ok. I am sure there will be lots of help coming as soon as the flooding is check and the water is pump out. Take care our prays are with you.

I know some people from New Orleans are here in Charlotte. I am sure they have a feeling of a big lost like you.

Where do you start here? They are going to just about have to rebuild the whole city. Would it be better to just move to higher ground?

There is alway a danger of flooding of land under sea level. The protection for NO is being lost. I don't know if there is enough money to do a completely rebuild NO.

As in other post, NO has big problems, not only inside of the levees, but also outside the levees. If all the land below NO. is gone, there is not a good chance for NO to survive.

As of now, it is estimated that 90% of NO is under water.

Man it hard for me to belive all this is happening.

Found this

http://www.unknowncountry.com/journal/

[Plasticman]

Here's a big question....are other countries going to pitch in financially and with supplies?

Everytime a major disaster strikes another country, we are the first on the scene. An example is the millions or billions contributed through this country toward tsunami relief.

Now it's time for some other countries to stop standing around with their hands out and give us some aid for a change.

I know good and well the arabs could help with the lower oil refining caused by the storm.

[statedude3]

Word from NOLA.com is that the conditions at the Superdome are radiply going downhill. They are very low on food rations, there is no air conditioning or fresh water, and there is no sewer capabilities. Aparently there has been escalated violence, including a few assaults and even a suicide in the building in the last 24 hours. Only military vehicles have been able to reach the building, and those coming in on foot looking for shelter from flooded homes are being turned away. Hopefully everyone can be moved out of there to a safer, healthier location as quickly as possible.

I will speak for the great people of the great State of Michigan in saying our thoughts and prayers are with you, and we promise to help in whatever way we can.

[ctman987]

Word just in that the 25,000 or so people inside the Superdome in downtown New Orleans will be bused to the Houston Astrodome over the next two days as it appears evacuating the city is the only option as the flood waters continue to wreck havoc on this great city.

And to everyone who has been affected by Hurricane Katrina such as residents of the Gulf Coast, emergency workers, local and state politicians, business owners, visitors/tourists, etc to everyone who may soon be affected by Katrina's remnants and economic impact on the USA I would like to send my prayers, wishes and condolences from the State of Connecticut.

[torgo]

Here's a big question....are other countries going to pitch in financially and with supplies?

Everytime a major disaster strikes another country, we are the first on the scene.

[TSmith]

For those of you saying it is time to abandon New Orleans instead of spending several billion dollars to fix the problem while our government wastes billions on porkbarrel projects and ill-advised ventures, I have one thing to say. Imagine a 9.0 earthquake occurring in Los Angeles. Damage estimates would exceed even what you are seeing in New Orleans. If this happens, and one day it will, do you propose we abandon Los Angeles forever? I mean, they built that city on a major fault, didn't they? Think about what you are saying before you say it... that's all I ask.

This desruction in New Orleans CAN BE PREVENTED!! Earthquakes cannot. If we have the will, we can protect New Orleans from flooding... it's a simple matter of building flood controls that are adequate. Los Angeles and many other cities in CA are sitting ducks, however. Think about this. It IS preventable.

[PghUSA]

Great point Plasticman!

Bravo!

Also I agree LA and SF are on the fault line, and after they go down in flames I wouldn't want to reinvest billions on recreating a city founded and grown on a fault line. I just don't think business people will want to come and invest in N.O. anymore, remember Galveston was once the Paris of the south, then a Hurricane flooded it in 1901, and it never was a big city again.