PROPOSED: Utopia Project

[HartfordTycoon]

Since when was having these people around neccessarily a good thing? There will be a lot of actors moving in or buying temporary residences if this thing is successful. This guy seems to be another one of the "big stars" that Gentile was able to lure over here to impress all of us. The biggest problem, as I have said before, is not the viability (which is questionable) but is the massive impact on the town. If this is a success, all the nice areas will be taken up by the well-to-do people and the regular people will have lost their region to this mess. Before the housing boom, there were still some lakefront homes around here for under $100k. I'm not saying that low of a price is probably coming back, but maybe it gives you a picture of where this place was. We weren't impoverished like some have said. Sure, there is a population of low income people, but if you look at the statistics we're still a region with a pretty high median income. Where this region may be going is probably a mix between Orlando and Fairfield County.

I understand. I sent a letter to House Speaker Jim Amann yesterday regarding Utopia. I gave him my support for the project and advised trying to find it a home in Greater Hartford if things don't work out in Preston. I also will be speaking to the State Rep whose campaign I will be managing this fall. If you don't want it I do. I think I've made that clear though.

[JimSawhill]

Exactly. I think a lot of people are ready for something new and exciting to come in down there. The Rent would be the best site in Greater Hartford by far. I say if it falls apart in Preston we try to get them up here. This thing needs to be in CT one way or the other, and he's already been dealing with the politicians in Hartford. I don't want the state to pass this up. I think we can ill-afford to throw opportunities like this down the drain. I still think that near the other touristy stuff is way better, but I had not really considered Rentschler Field before. If they bring it to Hartford and it works, that's even better. I don't want to shove this down the people in Preston's throats. If they want it they want it and that's great. If not I'm sure he would have a very easy time getting it built over at Rentscler.

I am actually co-managing a re-election campaign for the State House of Reps. I think I need to talk to my people.

Hell, if he has the $1.6 Billion ready, he can just build it at Front Street for all I care. Maybe then ESPN would build a full ESPN Zone and we could get the ball rolling on this thing.

tycoon:

Co-managing a re-election campaign? Who is it? I am sure it is a Democrat, but Connecticut's Democrats are fairly moderate - some (John Larson) is more to the right than Nancy Johnson is. Here, I'm helping someone to get elected (the incumbant is term limited out!), but I'm in a REPUBLICAN DISTRICT (W got 97% in 2004), but I'm to the left of him. (the Democrat here is not running anyone!)

Jim S

[HartfordTycoon]

tycoon:

Co-managing a re-election campaign? Who is it? I am sure it is a Democrat, but Connecticut's Democrats are fairly moderate - some (John Larson) is more to the right than Nancy Johnson is. Here, I'm helping someone to get elected (the incumbant is term limited out!), but I'm in a REPUBLICAN DISTRICT (W got 97% in 2004), but I'm to the left of him. (the Democrat here is not running anyone!)

Jim S

His name is Doug McCrory from my district in Hartford, democratic of course. This is his first re-election campaign since he took office 2 years ago. He lives right around the corner from me and is also a Vice Principal at Weaver High School in the North End of Hartford. He's real big on education, obviously, and that is really the only solution to the problems we face on our side of town.

[HartfordTycoon]

Here's an excerpt from this article.

Bullitin Article

The members agreed they were upset Utopia didn't provide, as promised, the feasibility studies that would show whether the project would be viable.

The members who voted to send the proposal to the voters were then asked to give their opinions. These members agreed the deal provided ironclad protections for the town.

Borner said the burden was on the lenders.

"If Bear Stearns" -- a Wall Street lender -- "is willing to give $1 billion on a pipe dream, they'd be out of business," he said. "Someone somewhere knows something about this that we don't."

Reach Adam Bowles at 425-4255 or abowles@norwich bulletin.com

[damus]

"Someone somewhere knows something about this that we don't."

That's for damn sure .. they've only hinted at some of what they are actually planning. The reason, I believe, being that they know that they'd probably have no chance of being approved if they told us their true intentions for the region.

[HartfordTycoon]

That's for damn sure .. they've only hinted at some of what they are actually planning. The reason, I believe, being that they know that they'd probably have no chance of being approved if they told us their true intentions for the region.

I can agree with that. They have something really big planned and the true level of backing is not even known to us yet. This would not be happening if some very big people in Hollywod didn't want it too. I am scared of losing this for the state and I hope at least part of you can understand why. This level of investment could take the state to the next level and that is one of my goals for the Connecticut. Like I said previously I hope that if it's not built in Preston they can find another site in the state. That may not be feasible though as it seems as if they are betting on SE CT.

[runawayjim]

That's for damn sure .. they've only hinted at some of what they are actually planning. The reason, I believe, being that they know that they'd probably have no chance of being approved if they told us their true intentions for the region.

that's about as shady as you can get... get voters to approve something that isn't what they want because no one but investors know what it is. i'm surprised the town is allowing this. in all honesty, the town officials should be voted out of office if they allow that to go to vote without having something concrete to vote on.

[damus]

that's about as shady as you can get... get voters to approve something that isn't what they want because no one but investors know what it is. i'm surprised the town is allowing this. in all honesty, the town officials should be voted out of office if they allow that to go to vote without having something concrete to vote on.

Another shady thing ... The town's First Selectman, who has visited gentile's home and is "buddies" with, was the "impartial" moderator of the meeting. He pointed out (untruthfully) that all the other proposals included low income housing. Of the proposals he mentioned, one included aged-restricted housing (55+) that would have been priced out of range of the low incomes. He failed to bring up the corporate office park deal through Spaulding & Slye that the state screwed up on us. He also impartially said "I'm voting for Utopia" and pretended to not understand the question to the effect of "could those who voted against it mention the pros and those who voted for it mention the cons that were in their mind of this project". There actually were people in the crowd (pro utopia I'm sure) who didn't understand it. A-hole that I am I shouted out "if you don't know what that question means you probably shouldn't vote". I'm pretty sure Bob Congdon (1st selectman) was just ducking that question. I would not be surpised at all if these people have been bought in some way by the Utopia people.

A townsperson mentioned that there's some law (I'm unaware of) that means that if 10% of your housing isn't low income, then a developer can propose something, so long as it fits building codes, that has to be approved. So that's coming in no matter what happens in terms of growth.

[damus]

http://www.theday.com/re.aspx?re=50739884-...3c-ec1cc0933f49

Eleanor Miller questioned the reality of Utopia's plan to draw millions of people to the area and create a film school for 6,000 students.

Reading an e-mail message she received from a New York film school, she said the school called Utopia's 6,000-student estimate a

[Recchia]

Just curious, what are the town planners opinions of this project?

[runawayjim]

http://www.theday.com/re.aspx?re=50739884-...3c-ec1cc0933f49

I was one of the many who did not go to this meeting.. I wish I was there. Bob Congdon, again seems to have been a biased moderator. For some reason he feels that even if Utopia files for bankruptcy that they'll be paying all these taxes. Is there something about the laws that I don't know?

I also find it odd that it was called a hostile Q&A period by the paper... considering every meeting I went to felt like a hostile atmosphere.... with the "pro-utopia" a-holes, among other hostile things to say, questioning the intelligence of people who are against Utopia because "traffic will be lower". Another hostile person pretty much insinuated anti utopia people are idiots for being against Utopia traffic because "the casino traffic is already here and we get NOTHING for it". Sure ... since we already have traffic issues related to the casinos why not let the traffic get worse, since we're at least getting tax money from it. Who cares if the project is viable or what will happen to the character of the region....

being a resident of the area... do you think the casino traffic is all that bad? i've spent days at a time around there and i never noticed a ton of traffic. sure, it's more that it had been before the casinos, but is it really unbearable? i've never had a problem getting into or out of that area (even to/from the casino), and i've been on what i would consider "busy times".

[damus]

being a resident of the area... do you think the casino traffic is all that bad? i've spent days at a time around there and i never noticed a ton of traffic. sure, it's more that it had been before the casinos, but is it really unbearable? i've never had a problem getting into or out of that area (even to/from the casino), and i've been on what i would consider "busy times".

It's not that bad... but keep in mind that before the casinos the only real traffic on rt 2 was summertime "beach traffic". I hate driving on rt 2 because, a 2 lane road, one slow driver can screw up a whole trip. Considering most of the towns east of Norwich have about 5,000 people in them, I have this feeling that I should be able to get where I'm going as fast as I safely can on the state roads. On route 2 you could get stuck going 40. On the other westbound state road in town, 165, you can actually pass someone if they are going slow. It's pretty much dead on there, and the fact that the speed traps are set up on the "casino roads" 164, 2, and 2a makes me feel a lot safer speeding and whatnot.

A Disney World sized attraction really would create a traffic mess, but people around here seem to think (partially due to Gentile's insistince of this claim) that most of the traffic is "here already" because of the casinos and that traffic will not be all that much worse than it is now.

Just curious, what are the town planners opinions of this project?

That's a good question. I haven't seen anything in the news from her. She hasn't been speaking out at any of the meetings. I have a feeling the pro Utopia types would rather not hear from her before the vote.

[HartfordTycoon]

This article will surely not convert anyone in the anti-utopia camp. It is worth a read though. With the vote looming on such a large ecomonic development I must admit the suspense is killing me. I am hoping for the best next week at the referendum.

From the New York Times

Orlando on the Thames?

By LISA PREVOST

PRESTON

THREE years after a relatively obscure developer proposed a $1.6 billion Disney-meets-Hollywood entertainment complex on the grounds of the former Norwich State Hospital here, the plan is still just a concept.

"We haven't seen the economic viability, the financial viability or the specific content," said Robert Congdon, the town's first selectman, who sits on the advisory committee working with the New York development company, Utopia Studios.

Yet an agreement between the town and Utopia may provide a big enough safety net to persuade residents to take a leap of faith. On May 23, voters will decide whether to approve the agreement, which would authorize the town to purchase the hospital property from the state and sell it to Utopia, but under a stringent set of conditions intended to protect the town from financial risk.

"We're putting our money where our mouth is," said Joseph Gentile, Utopia's president and chief financial officer.

The vote could mark a critical turn for Preston, a rural town sandwiched between two casino complexes. While the town is now simply a pass-through for casino traffic, approval of the Utopia proposal could make it a destination in its own right, within sight of Mohegan Sun's towers and about seven miles from Foxwoods.

NYT Article

[damus]

Hmm... it's kinda odd that there's a ferris wheel in that NYT pic considering the theme park is going to be in a giant dome

[runawayjim]

Hmm... it's kinda odd that there's a ferris wheel in that NYT pic considering the theme park is going to be in a giant dome

i found the same thing odd... as well as the fact that the only committed money to the project is $87 million.

[damus]

i found the same thing odd... as well as the fact that the only committed money to the project is $87 million.

Unfortunately, people who don't pay too much attention to this are getting all caught up in the idea of a movie studio/theme park/college that will not affect the character of the region, but only help lower taxes. Unbelievable

[damus]

Out come the letters to the editor, again. I'm surpised, considering the margin of approval in past Utopia referendums, with the number of anti-utopia letters.

http://theday.com/re.aspx?re=ec8534c4-a411...8e-d513b3da3d8c

Developer Joseph Gentile is comparing Utopia to Disneyland. Now throw in 17,000 visitors per day to Utopia, local traffic and an accident and no one is going anywhere. Mr. Gentile was asked,

[Jerry2]

Out come the letters to the editor, again. I'm surpised, considering the margin of approval in past Utopia referendums, with the number of anti-utopia letters.

http://theday.com/re.aspx?re=ec8534c4-a411...8e-d513b3da3d8c

http://theday.com/re.aspx?re=dfce75eb-4a82...7e-d651b92326e5

One can only hope he takes this elsewhere. Let Hartford get it.

I think the Bridgeport waterfront would be ideal. Acres and acres of available space...mass transport and utilities ready available..next to a shipping channel..It would help revitalize a forgotten urban area. I also imagine that with all the industrial there now, the land could potentially be considered brownfields. That would enable the developer to be eligible for federal tax benefits. Why is that not logical?

[HartfordTycoon]

Out come the letters to the editor, again. I'm surpised, considering the margin of approval in past Utopia referendums, with the number of anti-utopia letters.

http://theday.com/re.aspx?re=ec8534c4-a411...8e-d513b3da3d8c

http://theday.com/re.aspx?re=dfce75eb-4a82...7e-d651b92326e5

One can only hope he takes this elsewhere. Let Hartford get it.

Hey, I'm 1000% for it coming to Hartford. That would be great for us and CT as well. I wouldn't mind seeing my taxes lowered and property values rise. We already have plenty of traffic. I could really care less about a little more. I used to live in Atlanta, that's real traffic. Even with Utopia I doubt our traffic would be on even that scale.

I think the Bridgeport waterfront would be ideal. Acres and acres of available space...mass transport and utilities ready available..next to a shipping channel..It would help revitalize a forgotten urban area. I also imagine that with all the industrial there now, the land could potentially be considered brownfields. That would enable the developer to be eligible for federal tax benefits. Why is that not logical?

That's perfectly logical. The plan in this form would get my support too. I would like for it to be closer to Hartford than NY, and I guess that would be my only complaint with proposing it for Bridgeport. I support it anywhere in CT. The only other problem is that Fairfield County is already one big traffic nightmare. This would be worse for their quality of life than that of the residents of Preston IMO. However, they do live in an urban area and I'm sure they could suck it up.

The bottom line is that Gentile and his financial backers want it near the casinos. So, everything changes if something deviates from those plans.

[Jerry2]

Hey, I'm 1000% for it coming to Hartford. That would be great for us and CT as well. I wouldn't mind seeing my taxes lowered and property values rise. We already have plenty of traffic. I could really care less about a little more. I used to live in Atlanta, that's real traffic. Even with Utopia I doubt our traffic would be on even that scale.

No comment.

[HartfordTycoon]

No comment.

Look, I think in economic terms. Everything else can be addressed and remediated. Do you think Orlando wishes Disney never came? Of course not. They know they wouldn't even be a blip on the radar were it not for Disney. I just don't understand why everyone is so negative and thinks this project would be the worse thing ever for Preston. Things change, we will see on May 23 whether or not the majority of Preston is ready and willing to embrace change at this point in the towns history. I know you find that view short sighted but I think the same can be said for wanting things to stay the same forever without considering other options.

You guys don't care that if they build housing that will create more of a burden on the Town and taxpayers without any substantial windfall or that your chances of luring a corporate headquarters to this area as it is now, is slim to none. What do you want them to build, really? I am very curious to know what you think would be a better use of the old hospital site.

[Jerry2]

Look, I think in economic terms. Everything else can be addressed and remediated. Do you think Orlando wishes Disney never came? Of course not. They know they wouldn't even be a blip on the radar were it not for Disney. I just don't understand why everyone is so negative and thinks this project would be the worse thing ever for Preston. Things change, we will see on May 23 whether or not the majority of Preston is ready and willing to embrace change at this point in the towns history. I know you find that view short sighted but I think the same can be said for wanting things to stay the same forever without considering other options.

You guys don't care that if they build housing that will create more of a burden on the Town and taxpayers without any substantial windfall or that your chances of luring a corporate headquarters to this area as it is now, is slim to none. What do you want them to build, really? I am very curious to know what you think would be a better use of the old hospital site.

I don't know what would be better there, but I do know this would not work. I've been through Norwich maybe twice in my life. I do find it funny though that you were so dead set against this going to the Hartford area before and now you are so for it. You said that SE CT was he best place for it and it wouldn't work in Hartford or anywhere else. Damus is probably the only one that is equipped to give a good answer as to what would fit in that spot...

[HartfordTycoon]

I don't know what would be better there, but I do know this would not work. I've been through Norwich maybe twice in my life. I do find it funny though that you were so dead set against this going to the Hartford area before and now you are so for it. You said that SE CT was he best place for it and it wouldn't work in Hartford or anywhere else. Damus is probably the only one that is equipped to give a good answer as to what would fit in that spot...

My opinion can evolve. I don't make up my mind and then block out everything else. I changed my thinking in part due to posts on UP from you guys. I'm an open minded person. I think it would work in Hartford, when I think about what it really is. It could work almost anywhere. I still think the hospital site is prime for it.

[Jerry2]

My opinion can evolve. I don't make up my mind and then block out everything else. I changed my thinking in part due to posts on UP from you guys. I'm an open minded person. I think it would work in Hartford, when I think about what it really is. It could work almost anywhere. I still think the hospital site is prime for it.

So being from an urban area and committed to politics and urban issues that affect the community, what do you think @ B'port? Take away all the glitz and glamour for just a second. Don't you think that an urban area stands to benefit much more with the creation of jobs, businesses, and overall quality of life? What possible objections could one have?

[runawayjim]

So being from an urban area and committed to politics and urban issues that affect the community, what do you think @ B'port? Take away all the glitz and glamour for just a second. Don't you think that an urban area stands to benefit much more with the creation of jobs, businesses, and overall quality of life? What possible objections could one have?

this would be huge for bridgeport and would not be as much a destruction of the quality of life in ffld county as it would in preston. they're already used to the traffic down there. there's already ample mass transit down there. none of this exists in preston. the only good thing i can think of that would come out of this in preston would be that there'd be expanded train service between new haven and new london and maybe even providence and new london. other than that, it will be a traffic nightmare for people who are used to practically no traffic. these people were up in arms over the casino traffic, which i don't consider to be terrible, but i guess when there's normally nothing, it's a big change. this would be quadruple what the casinos cause, and probably more. bridgeport can handle that with metro north (which needs a reason to upgrade anyways), shoreline east goes all the way to bridgeport now as far as i know (at least to milford, but they'd expand down to bridgeport), greyhound and amtrak, and the GBTA buses, plus the ferries from long island. the only question i haev about bridgeport is where? the waterfront is mostly in use already as far as i know. it's mostly industrial and then seaside park, which would be a HUGE loss for the city if they got rid of that.

it would help pull bridgeport out of the rut that it's been in, especially now that joe ganim is gone. but i still think hartford would be more realistic. it's closer to the casinos, it can feed off 6 flags and lake compounce (although it might put lake compounce out of business once and for all), and hartford stands to gain the most from train service... this would surely force the state to actually get some sort of rail service between hartford and new haven, probably going as far north as springfield. it would also give more reason to turn rt 6 into a real highway between the end of 384 and providence, connecting the only 2 major cities that are under 100 miles apart that have no highway connecting them to each other. and it would help pull hartford out of its slump.