PROPOSED: Utopia Project

[Cotuit]

I never insulted you, I just disagree with you.

You're the one who tries to turn every thread into a versus thread. STOP IT!

[Jerry2]

Ok hold the phone there buddy. I have no problems whatsoever with your concerns for this project, and I think you have every right to voice your opinion about it and it's effects. My point was (as it clearly stated) that you are posting pointless, incorrect assumptions about the Hartford area (and CT). For example:

"you can see the mentality of sprawl is just acceptable to CT and its state legislators"

False. It used to be acceptable. It still runs rampant (just as it does in any other state) but legislators and citizens have made efforts to stem this problem recently. Furthermore, you do realize your state has a horrible sprawl problem, right? Stones...glass house?

"Wasn't the purpose of the HCC to attract re-investment to the city cores? Adrien's Landing? Front St.?"

I'm not exactly sure what your point is here, but none of these projects are completed. How are we supposed to judge the outcome when it's not even finished!?

"CT rounds out the top 5 in population loss and will continue to do so..."

Source? Time period? Got Anything? Hint: CT isn't losing population.

"Every CT city has experinced nothing but [population] loss."

False. Stamford has steadily gained population and I believe Waterbury has gained as well. Hartford has recently started to gain population back as well.

Stick to what you know - this way you don't lose credibilty in the process.

The entire Northeast (including RI) is #1 on cnn.com for net population loss. Let me re-rephrase the very mere notion of painting CT in any negative light. Apology. We know that it really ticks you off. I understand that you want to hear only positive things to say..smiley faces if you will. My point with dragging Htfd. into the equation has to do with the economic re-investment in cities and then encouraging development away from the population cores. Granted, CT is a bigger state, but there are still some serious issues with ex-urban development.

For the record, I am my own city's biggest critic and biggest supporter. I think that economically, the issues of the NE don't have any borders. I know that when filled with testosterone, the male bull elephant has to come out charging. I'm not trying to be combative here. A discussion is always better when facts are presented and people can look at the pros and cons. I am 100% for this project if they left that corner of the state and proposed it closer to CT's urban areas. Frankly, I don't understand why any of you wouldn't. That area is on the Nature Conservancy's top 10 endangered places in NA. It should stay rural.

As far as me portraying RI as an urban model, I won't...Sprawl is a problem everywhere. You are correct...but I feel RI has made many more strides than CT in that respect. The reason that all of NE will continue to be backwoods economically boils down to politics. You can't have separate intact government governing small municipalities that cover 18 sq. miles. You can't have 3 of the densest states in the whole US still revolve their economy around the automobile with no viable mass transport. You have to think outside of the box.You can't have industrialized cities all across Southern NE waste away because market trends tell you so. You have to breathe life back into these places...Politics plays a big role. Consolidation of cities and municipal government will never happen in my lifetime. The shift in population is real and you can deny it's happening or think that quick fixes like casinos,theme parks,etc.is going to help economically.We are located in the largest urban corridor in the US.That's my issue...I would like us to build on that FACT....and come up with ways to reverse the trend...There is no border when it comes to economic development....

[runawayjim]

Sorry to nitpick, but route 2 abruptly ends around Backus Hospital in Norwich. There is no rt 12 exit, only a rt 12 "junction" downtown. You'd wanna turn right onto the viaduct in Norwich and follow it through the Laurel Hill neighborhood. The Norwich side would be very difficult to expand. Into Ledyard it is feasible, but not desirable.

I received some third hand knowledge about the rt 12 area today. I had made a comment about some guy whose property was adjacent to the hospital property having a "preston residents for utopia sign" saying he was probably already offered money for it from Joe G. I heard that a lot of people this person knows on rt 12 have been approached by Utopia already and they indicated that Utopia will want to buy their property when the time is right. This is all hearsay so for all I know the people approaching the Laurel Hill and Poquetoneck (preston) residents are just speculative investors, but I would not be surprised at all if the Utopia people were already poking around in those areas.

my bad... i believe the sign does say something like downtown norwich, rt 12 though. i avoided that exit usually, getting off there sucks, even when my friends lived in norwich, it was easier to get off at 79A and take that to 12 and go north.

so do you think utopia is just trying to butter people up or are they seriously going to buy people out (here's my eminent domain-ish concern coming out)?

For the record, I am my own city's biggest critic and biggest supporter.

you can say taht again...

[SOCOM]

The entire Northeast (including RI) is #1 on cnn.com for net population loss. Let me re-rephrase the very mere notion of painting CT in any negative light. Apology. We know that it really ticks you off. I understand that you want to hear only positive things to say..smiley faces if you will. My point with dragging Htfd. into the equation has to do with the economic re-investment in cities and then encouraging development away from the population cores. Granted, CT is a bigger state, but there are still some serious issues with ex-urban development.

For the record, I am my own city's biggest critic and biggest supporter. I think that economically, the issues of the NE don't have any borders. I know that when filled with testosterone, the male bull elephant has to come out charging. I'm not trying to be combative here. A discussion is always better when facts are presented and people can look at the pros and cons. I am 100% for this project if they left that corner of the state and proposed it closer to CT's urban areas. Frankly, I don't understand why any of you wouldn't. That area is on the Nature Conservancy's top 10 endangered places in NA. It should stay rural.

As far as me portraying RI as an urban model, I won't...Sprawl is a problem everywhere. You are correct...but I feel RI has made many more strides than CT in that respect. The reason that all of NE will continue to be backwoods economically boils down to politics. You can't have separate intact government governing small municipalities that cover 18 sq. miles. You can't have 3 of the densest states in the whole US still revolve their economy around the automobile with no viable mass transport. You have to think outside of the box.You can't have industrialized cities all across Southern NE waste away because market trends tell you so. You have to breathe life back into these places...Politics plays a big role. Consolidation of cities and municipal government will never happen in my lifetime. The shift in population is real and you can deny it's happening or think that quick fixes like casinos,theme parks,etc.is going to help economically.We are located in the largest urban corridor in the US.That's my issue...I would like us to build on that FACT....and come up with ways to reverse the trend...There is no border when it comes to economic development....

No hard feelings my friend. I do not care if you talk about CT in a negative light - that doesn't piss me off. What pisses me off is ignorance.

[damus]

so do you think utopia is just trying to butter people up or are they seriously going to buy people out (here's my eminent domain-ish concern coming out)?

I think it's a little of both. They'll probably want more room to grow, and offering money (esp. on the Preston side) or assurances of a future buyout of property would surely help quiet down some p*ssed off people who live right there. Remember, this is the same snake that tried to convince me that I, with no experience, will be able to make $50/hr working construction for him. I'm sure he's trying to not leave any stone unturned when recruiting voters and shutting up dissent. The latter he accomplishes in ways such as packing the town meetings with union workers, many of whom are more than twice my age and could still kick my a**, who are very loud in their support of the project. I'm sure the presence of 30-40 union workers at these meetings intimidates at least some of the skeptical people.

[SOCOM]

Remember, this is the same snake that tried to convince me that I, with no experience, will be able to make $50/hr working construction for him.

You talked to Joe G. in person? Did you happen to ask him any questions about the specifics of the project (what is planned, how they are going to deal with traffic, who's paying for what, etc). If so, what was his response?

[Jerry2]

No hard feelings my friend. I do not care if you talk about CT in a negative light - that doesn't piss me off. What pisses me off is ignorance.

Please forgive me for being ignorant . I will elaborate a little better when making some generalizations.

Please forgive me for being ignorant . I will elaborate a little better when making some generalizations.

Also,

Please feel free to add something constructive to the conversation rather than glorifying your coated "FACTS"

[damus]

You talked to Joe G. in person? Did you happen to ask him any questions about the specifics of the project (what is planned, how they are going to deal with traffic, who's paying for what, etc). If so, what was his response?

Honestly you'd have to try NOT to have the opportunity to speak with him. He's a politician. I've ran into him at a pizza place in town and at the town dump in addition to the times we've spoke at some meetings. After I ran into him at the dump, I was in the liquor store talking to the owner about this and he said "I'll support this as long as the guy keeps buying my liquor. He's got a big party comin' up (he's voting against Utopia)". As soon as I left, Joe was pulling in with his Bentley.

He is a very smooth talker and has probably heard all the concerns. He told me that he doesn't want a route 2a bypass, that that's up to the town and that all he needs is the bridge. His own traffic study was done assuming the bypass was put in though....

He told me they were all coming in on buses, but again when you look at the traffic study it's different. His own study, which I'm sure is at least slightly inaccurate in favor of him, says that 35% of visitors, 90% of park and hotel employees, and 75% of studio employees will arrive by bus. The vast majority of visitors coming to his site are still coming in cars. He told me that this project is the only way to preserve the town's character because the casinos are "just gonna build it anyways". what "it" is i'm not positive. I mentioned that I've met him a few times in this thread already.

He told me that the domed theme park will be different levels. When asked why he thinks the project will work he said "it's gonna be different". He keeps saying how much he loves the town. I say he loves the location. If you try talking to him though, he makes you think that he's right sometimes. The time I met him at the dump he almost had me convinced his project was good for the region. As soon as I sat down in the car I realized he was just trying to fill my mind with crap.

On edit: he also got the opportunity to talk to my mother and austistic brother at the meeting last saturday. I mentioned that earlier too. He got fed up with their questions regarding how this will impact the region and insulted them by asking "have you ever had a relative in the Norwich Hospital" in a dismissive way. Turns out, yes I have, and I'm taking it personally. He also took offense to my brother, a Norwich resident who thus had "no right asking questions about this", simply being there opposing the project. He has no problems, though, bringing in union workers from out of town to cheer and boo on cue.

[SOCOM]

He told me that the domed theme park will be different levels. When asked why he thinks the project will work he said "it's gonna be different". He keeps saying how much he loves the town. I say he loves the location. If you try talking to him though, he makes you think that he's right sometimes. The time I met him at the dump he almost had me convinced his project was good for the region. As soon as I sat down in the car I realized he was just trying to fill my mind with crap.

OK this is what concerns me - specifics. I might be a big proponent of this project IF I knew what it actually entailed. Even the rendering they released was pretty half-assed. There's a part of me that likes this project and wants it to succeed, but it's difficult to gauge what kind of an impact it's going to have on the community with such secrecy. I've said it all along - I get more skeptical of this project with each passing day.

EDIT: I understand you talked about meeting him before, but you have to realize this thread is now 15 pages long and before today, I didn't check it regularly. Not to mention all the garbage I had to sift through.

[runawayjim]

OK this is what concerns me - specifics. I might be a big proponent of this project IF I knew what it actually entailed. Even the rendering they released was pretty half-assed. There's a part of me that likes this project and wants it to succeed, but it's difficult to gauge what kind of an impact it's going to have on the community with such secrecy. I've said it all along - I get more skeptical of this project with each passing day.

EDIT: I understand you talked about meeting him before, but you have to realize this thread is now 15 pages long and before today, I didn't check it regularly. Not to mention all the garbage I had to sift through.

after reading the meetings damus had with this guy, it sounds really shady... he sounds like a total sleazeball... like someone who should be mayor of providence or something.

[damus]

I just thought of another noteworthy segment of one of our conversations. Part of his pitch to sell the Utopia thing to town residents is that the towns services are "soreley lacking" and that the Utopia thing will allow for the town to hire full time police/fire/ambulance service. He asked me "how would you feel if a little girl died choking on a chicken bone because the volunteer EMTs couldn't get there in time?". I said "how about if the little girl dies in a car accident with a Utopia visitor on the Mohegan-Pequot bridge?". He changed the subject....

[SOCOM]

I just thought of another noteworthy segment of one of our conversations. Part of his pitch to sell the Utopia thing to town residents is that the towns services are "soreley lacking" and that the Utopia thing will allow for the town to hire full time police/fire/ambulance service. He asked me "how would you feel if a little girl died choking on a chicken bone because the volunteer EMTs couldn't get there in time?".

Whoa, this guy is a tad sketchy...

Maybe he just has a weird personality,but it certainly sounds like he's trying to shove this project down people's throats.

[Cotuit]

I just thought of another noteworthy segment of one of our conversations. Part of his pitch to sell the Utopia thing to town residents is that the towns services are "soreley lacking" and that the Utopia thing will allow for the town to hire full time police/fire/ambulance service. He asked me "how would you feel if a little girl died choking on a chicken bone because the volunteer EMTs couldn't get there in time?". I said "how about if the little girl dies in a car accident with a Utopia visitor on the Mohegan-Pequot bridge?". He changed the subject....

Is he planning to pay for a full time abulance service? See this is exactly where these promised tax breaks projects like these promise go out the window. If the town has this giant influx of visitors, they have to pay for the fire, rescue, and police protection for these visitors that aren't paying property taxes.

[damus]

Is he planning to pay for a full time abulance service? See this is exactly where these promised tax breaks projects like these promise go out the window. If the town has this giant influx of visitors, they have to pay for the fire, rescue, and police protection for these visitors that aren't paying property taxes.

He's only supposedly going to pay for the services at Utopia. The town will be able to afford the rest with the tax money from Utopia.

[SOCOM]

The more I think about this project, the more I'm convinced that the old Rentschler airport in E. Hartford would be an ideal location. It's at the crossroads of 3 major CT highways, I-91, I-84 and route 2, and is situated only a few miles from downtown Hartford.

[drc72]

You're the one who tries to turn every thread into a versus thread. STOP IT!

No I don't. Where the heck did that come from? I just don't like to see misinformation posted.

[damus]

http://norwichbulletin.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...317/1002/NEWS01

PRESTON -- A public forum tonight on Utopia Studios' proposed Disney-like entertainment project promises to be different from the two meetings Utopia held on the project.

...

While Utopia promoted the merits of its proposal, the advisory committee will stick to the proposed development agreement, discussing the risks, benefits, and protections.

Utopia did not take questions from the audience, instead directing questions to an e-mail address and fax number.

But the committee will answer questions from the public, and the committee's attorneys from Shipman & Goodwin in Hartford will join the committee at the meeting.

If only the Utopia people would've taken questions directly from the public. I really don't understand why so many people are for this when all they've seen are flashy presentations. Not too many people seem to be thinking about what this will do to the region. The big selling point for Utopia is "lower taxes for all". Isn't that a bribe?

[runawayjim]

http://norwichbulletin.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...317/1002/NEWS01

If only the Utopia people would've taken questions directly from the public. I really don't understand why so many people are for this when all they've seen are flashy presentations. Not too many people seem to be thinking about what this will do to the region. The big selling point for Utopia is "lower taxes for all". Isn't that a bribe?

sounds to me like they're trying to avoid some questions that they can't answer. it really sounds like they haven't thought of everything that needs to be thought of and will only do so at the last minute after they've gotten the go ahead.

[SOCOM]

http://norwichbulletin.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...317/1002/NEWS01

If only the Utopia people would've taken questions directly from the public. I really don't understand why so many people are for this when all they've seen are flashy presentations. Not too many people seem to be thinking about what this will do to the region. The big selling point for Utopia is "lower taxes for all". Isn't that a bribe?

Well at least the advisory committee is going to lay out the possible ramifications tonight in the meeting.

I don't really blame people like this: Virginia Zanjani, a 25-year Preston resident, said she doesn't need another meeting to help her make up her mind about the project. She is already convinced Utopia is right for the abandoned site and would provide much-needed tax revenues for the town.

"No matter what they say, I'm am going to vote for Utopia," she said.

While I am in disagreement with her and think her opinion is short sighted, I can see her point given that SE CT does seem to be a depressed area economically and people are dying for some money to flow into the town.

[HartfordTycoon]

Well at least the advisory committee is going to lay out the possible ramifications tonight in the meeting.

I don't really blame people like this: Virginia Zanjani, a 25-year Preston resident, said she doesn't need another meeting to help her make up her mind about the project. She is already convinced Utopia is right for the abandoned site and would provide much-needed tax revenues for the town.

"No matter what they say, I'm am going to vote for Utopia," she said.

While I am in disagreement with her and think her opinion is short sighted, I can see her point given that SE CT does seem to be a depressed area economically and people are dying for some money to flow into the town.

Exactly. I think a lot of people are ready for something new and exciting to come in down there. The Rent would be the best site in Greater Hartford by far. I say if it falls apart in Preston we try to get them up here. This thing needs to be in CT one way or the other, and he's already been dealing with the politicians in Hartford. I don't want the state to pass this up. I think we can ill-afford to throw opportunities like this down the drain. I still think that near the other touristy stuff is way better, but I had not really considered Rentschler Field before. If they bring it to Hartford and it works, that's even better. I don't want to shove this down the people in Preston's throats. If they want it they want it and that's great. If not I'm sure he would have a very easy time getting it built over at Rentscler.

I am actually co-managing a re-election campaign for the State House of Reps. I think I need to talk to my people.

Hell, if he has the $1.6 Billion ready, he can just build it at Front Street for all I care. Maybe then ESPN would build a full ESPN Zone and we could get the ball rolling on this thing.

[HartfordTycoon]

The Karate Kid was here touring the Utopia site. He wants to make his comeback here. Good luck to him.

Actor Tours Proposed Utopia Site

PRESTON -- While people in Preston are trying to make up their minds about the Utopia Studios proposal, Hollywood actors are taking tours of the site.

Ralph Macchio -- best known for his role in the Karate Kid -- visited Norwich and Preston on Thursday. He was with Utopia Studios officials scouting locations for his next movie.

Macchio is one of dozens of actors endorsing Utopia's $1.6 billion dollar proposed entertainment complex for the former Norwich Hospital property.

He is in discussions with utopia about collaborating on a family-based film.

WFSB Story

[runawayjim]

oh dear god... i didn't even know he was still acting... talk about a has been.

[damus]

oh dear god... i didn't even know he was still acting... talk about a has been.

lol ... the New London Day reporter at the Utopia meeting told the group I was with that this person was looking at houses in Norwich, and no one had heard of this guy. He was also apparantly in "My Cousin Vinnie".

[HartfordTycoon]

lol ... the New London Day reporter at the Utopia meeting told the group I was with that this person was looking at houses in Norwich, and no one had heard of this guy. He was also apparantly in "My Cousin Vinnie".

See and who says the actors wouldn't move here for the movie studios? I know they are has beens and never was's but if the thing actually gets built I'm sure more will follow.

[damus]

See and who says the actors wouldn't move here for the movie studios? I know they are has beens and never was's but if the thing actually gets built I'm sure more will follow.

Since when was having these people around neccessarily a good thing? There will be a lot of actors moving in or buying temporary residences if this thing is successful. This guy seems to be another one of the "big stars" that Gentile was able to lure over here to impress all of us. The biggest problem, as I have said before, is not the viability (which is questionable) but is the massive impact on the town. If this is a success, all the nice areas will be taken up by the well-to-do people and the regular people will have lost their region to this mess. Before the housing boom, there were still some lakefront homes around here for under $100k. I'm not saying that low of a price is probably coming back, but maybe it gives you a picture of where this place was. We weren't impoverished like some have said. Sure, there is a population of low income people, but if you look at the statistics we're still a region with a pretty high median income. Where this region may be going is probably a mix between Orlando and Fairfield County.