PROPOSED: Utopia Project

[damus]

http://www.theday.com/re.aspx?re=249a723f-...b8-d2c7d2e86aad

The way I understand the development agreement, Preston has put a safeguard on this deal. If Utopia is a success, we win, and even if Utopia doesn't comply, we win.

I guess that's what they mean when they say this is a win- win for the residents of Preston. I'm from Preston and like being a winner. I'll be voting yes for Utopia.

This, in my not so humble opinion, is the epitome of short sidedness and simple minded thinking. This person probably knows nothing about the project and what it has the potential to do to her. I bet she has one of those "Preston Residents for Utopia" signs out on her lawn...

[Jerry2]

The newsletter is very informative. Hopefully, this will wake up some people around there. I'm not surprised that some of their associates have mob ties. I could smell it a mile away. You can tell I'm from R.I.

[damus]

Well ... it's 330 and I'm still up making copies of this thing. I've found a few errors left over from after I had my father, the lawyer, tell me to be careful when using specific names. oh well. I showed it to a few clerks at local stores, the liquor store guy gave me good tips. The guy at the convenience store next door was a high school drop out from the year after me and my college roommate's sister's boyfried ... so a general acquaintance I used to get along with. When I showed the final draft to him, he was a complete dick, skimmed it and then started talking sarcastically in a tone that made me feel that he thinks 1) he is smarter than me and 2) that all people against utopia are morons whose opinion is so banal that listening to them is a waste of time.

Here's my newsletter that i'm going to be spreading around tomorrow and (hopefully not) into sunday house to house

What will Utopia really do to the Town of Preston and the entire region around it? The theme park is supposed to, on 200+ days per year, out draw Disney World in Orlando. Before Disney, Orlando

[drc72]

WOW! If this takes off it's gonna be huge.

[damus]

Good points, but the "outdraw disney world" were their words, not mine. Is there a link for those statistics? It's already too late for me to change anything on that newsletter, I spent all last night printing out copies and delivered close to half of them today.

[damus]

http://theday.com/gbl/media/dynamic/lrgimages/200652145012.

Even if they are able to, out of nowhere, become the biggest theme park in the World... do the "YES" voters have any idea about what this could do to the quality of life?

[Theophrastus Bombastus]

No offense to the fine people of Preston, but should that tiny group have the power in their hands to make such a huge decision for the state? I'm not a big eminent domain guy, but they should be allowed to build this thing, then if you live there and hate it you could move....

http://www.courant.com/news/local/hc-apstu...headlines-local

[damus]

No offense to the fine people of Preston, but should that tiny group have the power in their hands to make such a huge decision for the state? I'm not a big eminent domain guy, but they should be allowed to build this thing, then if you live there and hate it you could move....

Where to and why? This is the last green corridor in the Megalopolis. We are close to 4 mid sized cities, and within a few hours of New York and Boston. It's a great place to live, and I wish the residents would be wiser and see that these people like the location and not the beauty and charm of the region. Putting something like this, and all its ancillary developments, would ruin it. I'm surprised people here at UP are so nonchalant about a development that, if successful, guarantees to turn a mostly rural region into a sprawling tourist trap.

I see you would like us to take on this project for the "greater good". I think we've done enough for CT. We already take in all the casino problems and get peanuts in return. Apparantly Waterbury, Bridgeport, Hartford, and New Haven all receive a much greater impact from the casinos. How fair is it for Norwich that, although the state takes in something like $40 million per month from the two casinos, that Norwich gets a couple million per year to deal with all the problems including crime, traffic, and schooling for kids. Many of the kids of casino workers do not speak English well, or at all, and it's not like they speak only Spanish. I forget the number but I think it's 32 languages spoken in the Norwich Public School System, if you really want to know it was in the bulletin so just google it.

The Utopia thing, which promises 22k good paying jobs but will certainly create tens of thousands of not so good paying jobs (both directly and indirectly), will pay $7 million per year (according to the powerpoint presentation given by the Norwich Hospital Advisory Committee) in taxes to Preston. Not even half of what one casino pays the state in a month. This money will not go towards the towns of Ledyard, Montville, and Norwich, all of whom directly abut the hospital property. Why should these other towns have to suffer through the growing pains of an Orlando? I'm certain that taxes will rise in all of the area's towns, including Preston, to pay for services.

On edit: If Utopia does happen, the state better take that casino money and spend it on infrastructure around here. Light rail, new buses, road improvements and construction. Routes 2 and 2A will need to be completed. The other towns will all try and develop some of their vacant land to try and offset the population influx, so it's a good sign the state is at least looking into a New London to Worcester rail. All we need past that is it to follow the new route 2's right of way and head to foxwoods and down to Westerly. This project will either create a traffic nightmare beyond comprehension or force the state to provide decent roadway and possibly rail access to the Pequot's reservation (which the area has fought tooth and nail). Thousands of acres of undeveloped "indian" land. Say hello to Mashantucket's world class resort, complete with its own commercial airport. Utopia's main site will just be the beginning of a development boom (or a spectacular boondoggle) that will affect the entire region.

[runawayjim]

No offense to the fine people of Preston, but should that tiny group have the power in their hands to make such a huge decision for the state? I'm not a big eminent domain guy, but they should be allowed to build this thing, then if you live there and hate it you could move....

that is perhaps one of the single most short sighted views i have ever seen. this is NOT the type of development that eminent domain should take. it does not benefit the greater good of the immediate area, but more the state. i take it you are another one of those people who area all like "yeah, build it... as long as it's not in my town". this is a terrible project for this region.

Where to and why? This is the last green corridor in the Megalopolis. We are close to 4 mid sized cities, and within a few hours of New York and Boston. It's a great place to live, and I wish the residents would be wiser and see that these people like the location and not the beauty and charm of the region. Putting something like this, and all its ancillary developments, would ruin it. I'm surprised people here at UP are so nonchalant about a development that, if successful, guarantees to turn a mostly rural region into a sprawling tourist trap.

while i don't consider it to be really a part of the megalopolis (i'd say that ends at the end of new haven county), it's still not the last remaining green land in CT... one simply has to drive to the other side of norwich for more green... nevermind litchfield county. and then there's RI between CT and 295.

but this area does not need a project of this scale.

I see you would like us to take on this project for the "greater good". I think we've done enough for CT. We already take in all the casino problems and get peanuts in return. Apparantly Waterbury, Bridgeport, Hartford, and New Haven all receive a much greater impact from the casinos. How fair is it for Norwich that, although the state takes in something like $40 million per month from the two casinos, that Norwich gets a couple million per year to deal with all the problems including crime, traffic, and schooling for kids. Many of the kids of casino workers do not speak English well, or at all, and it's not like they speak only Spanish. I forget the number but I think it's 32 languages spoken in the Norwich Public School System, if you really want to know it was in the bulletin so just google it.

The Utopia thing, which promises 22k good paying jobs but will certainly create tens of thousands of not so good paying jobs (both directly and indirectly), will pay $7 million per year (according to the powerpoint presentation given by the Norwich Hospital Advisory Committee) in taxes to Preston. Not even half of what one casino pays the state in a month. This money will not go towards the towns of Ledyard, Montville, and Norwich, all of whom directly abut the hospital property. Why should these other towns have to suffer through the growing pains of an Orlando? I'm certain that taxes will rise in all of the area's towns, including Preston, to pay for services.

more of the casino money needs to go into the immediate area than what it currently gets. that money should be used to build up infrastructure, hospitals, and public services (police, fire, ambulance, schools).

taxes will certainly rise in the surrounding towns if they don't also rise in preston because of this. property values will rise greatly, making those towns far less affordable to the longtime residents. the other towns will get massive growth in hospitality, like hotels and the like, but get nothing out of it.

while the state might need this, the immediate area cannot handle this.

[HartfordTycoon]

From what I've seen on the news this is going to be very tight. Good luck to both sides is all I have to say. I'm a positive person, so no matter the outcome, I hope that Preston and CT are better and stronger for it. I really think that everyone is pretty much on the same page whether they will admit it or not. Most people think it has the posibility to be very sucessful and that it will certainly change the character of the area. To be fair, there are Preston residents ready and willing to embrace a major change and those who are not willing at this point in time. Both side concede that traffic will be and issue and will have to be addressed adaquately by the state and the developer. We know that smart growth strategies and preservation of open space are priorities to salvage the character of the region and spur development in already urban or suburban locales. I'm not buying that we can't control this and not become another Orlando. This is 2006 not 1970, we have learned much since Disneyworld. I can see how a reasonable person could either support or not support the project based on the information available. So we will find out tomorrow and I'm sure this topic will be abuzz with whatever the news is. So it's time to play the waiting game......

[drc72]

Has anybody heard anything yet on which way the votes are leading?

[runawayjim]

Has anybody heard anything yet on which way the votes are leading?

polls close in an hour and a half... i'm sure we'll hear something shortly after that...

[damus]

Seriously I'm feeling depressed. After spending half the afternoon dealing with a--hole utopia supporters childishly trying to block my anti utopia sign, me and my cousin got into a verbal squabble with a big union guy. We talked for like 45 minutes, and I feel his heart is in the right place, but he's misguided. He says that "in life you'll learn that everything is about money" and I just don't buy that. He really doesn't care about the character of the town and is doing this because he's going to get a great job there.

He actually proved a point I've been making by saying "most of these people will live in Norwich" but when I tried to point out the strain they'll put on the school system alone he insinuated I was racist because my ancestors came over too. It's not racist, my argument is economics. The school system is already overwhelmed with 31 different languages other than English. We will not be able to recognize this region. Even if we (anti utopia) do win I'm screwed because, I'm afraid, the Utopia people will come after me for writing that newsletter. There goes the town, bring on the sprawl, crime, traffic, higher taxes, pollution, etc.

Well ... as I typed this I got a phone call and stopped what I was typing ... we lost by like 300 votes. F*CK. I'll just forget about living here when I'm old right now. People voted YES for money and NO to saving the rural character of the region. There is no way around this. Once the 22k jobs are brought in they will move into the outside towns. These towns will need services as well as tax relief. More development will come in. These union guys were pawns. The guy told me that they will actually be paying living wages to the popcorn vendors. They bought into it, now we're done. Southern New England will not have another area like this. South County RI will be a suburb of this.

[runawayjim]

Seriously I'm feeling depressed. After spending half the afternoon dealing with a--hole utopia supporters childishly trying to block my anti utopia sign, me and my cousin got into a verbal squabble with a big union guy. We talked for like 45 minutes, and I feel his heart is in the right place, but he's misguided. He says that "in life you'll learn that everything is about money" and I just don't buy that. He really doesn't care about the character of the town and is doing this because he's going to get a great job there.

He actually proved a point I've been making by saying "most of these people will live in Norwich" but when I tried to point out the strain they'll put on the school system alone he insinuated I was racist because my ancestors came over too. It's not racist, my argument is economics. The school system is already overwhelmed with 31 different languages other than English. We will not be able to recognize this region. Even if we (anti utopia) do win I'm screwed because, I'm afraid, the Utopia people will come after me for writing that newsletter. There goes the town, bring on the sprawl, crime, traffic, higher taxes, pollution, etc.

Well ... as I typed this I got a phone call and stopped what I was typing ... we lost by like 300 votes. F*CK. I'll just forget about living here when I'm old right now. People voted YES for money and NO to saving the rural character of the region. There is no way around this. Once the 22k jobs are brought in they will move into the outside towns. These towns will need services as well as tax relief. More development will come in. These union guys were pawns. The guy told me that they will actually be paying living wages to the popcorn vendors. They bought into it, now we're done. Southern New England will not have another area like this. South County RI will be a suburb of this.

it just shows how our society thinks... obviously some people on this board were seeing $$$.

don't give up hope... if they don't stay within the guidelines or can't come up with the money, the project probably won't happen.

the only town getting anything out of this is preston? i'd be protesting it if i lived in one of the nearby towns. i'd make sure i was heard.

sounds like your pro-union buddy is the racist one...

south county, ri doesn't need to be a suburb of this, nor does it want to be...

[damus]

it just shows how our society thinks... obviously some people on this board were seeing $$$.

don't give up hope... if they don't stay within the guidelines or can't come up with the money, the project probably won't happen.

the only town getting anything out of this is preston? i'd be protesting it if i lived in one of the nearby towns. i'd make sure i was heard.

sounds like your pro-union buddy is the racist one...

south county, ri doesn't need to be a suburb of this, nor does it want to be...

South County will be. There's no way around it. This, if successful, will have the same effect on the region that Disney had on Orange County in the states of California and Florida. I don't really have much hope left right now, and I'm already thinking about getting the hell out of there. All this "open space" that they're touting will probably be in the form of 300 acre "ranch" estates for rich scumbags that work in show business. Ted Turner, Don Imus, and Tom Brokaw have theirs. Someone would love to do this a few miles from where they work. Norwich is screwed, and no one seems to understand this. We're gonna need new hospitals, schools, roads ... all for this. They like to tout that they're cleaning up a polluted site, but with all the traffic and other stuff related to this, we will see a huge increase in pollution. This is why people like me are "losers" in society. Here comes my prententious side, but I feel that I'm smarter than at least 95% of the people out there (my IQ tests taken when I was growing up would tend to agree), and I happen to have something of a set of morals. People suck.

[runawayjim]

South County will be. There's no way around it. This, if successful, will have the same effect on the region that Disney had on Orange County in the states of California and Florida. I don't really have much hope left right now, and I'm already thinking about getting the hell out of there. All this "open space" that they're touting will probably be in the form of 300 acre "ranch" estates for rich scumbags that work in show business. Ted Turner, Don Imus, and Tom Brokaw have theirs. Someone would love to do this a few miles from where they work. Norwich is screwed, and no one seems to understand this. We're gonna need new hospitals, schools, roads ... all for this. They like to tout that they're cleaning up a polluted site, but with all the traffic and other stuff related to this, we will see a huge increase in pollution. This is why people like me are "losers" in society. Here comes my prententious side, but I feel that I'm smarter than at least 95% of the people out there (my IQ tests taken when I was growing up would tend to agree), and I happen to have something of a set of morals. People suck.

i bet you won't see actual development of the site for at least another 5 years. cleanup and demolition alone will take a few years. nevermind getting permits and everything.

before anything is actually built the public needs to demand to see feasibility studies and plans on how they'll deal with traffic. honestly, i see this becoming eurodisney.

[damus]

i bet you won't see actual development of the site for at least another 5 years. cleanup and demolition alone will take a few years. nevermind getting permits and everything.

before anything is actually built the public needs to demand to see feasibility studies and plans on how they'll deal with traffic. honestly, i see this becoming eurodisney.

I've been thinking the same thing, but even if this is a success it's a disaster. That's what I'm most afraid of. I'm sitting here in what used to be my grandfather's (he's dead) living room which was built on a piece of land taken off from the family farm that's still run by family members. other than the farm, there are 3 families in my family that live within 300 feet of where I am. There are dozens of 2nd and some 3rd cousins that we treat as direct family. I will lose this. There is no way around this. I do not own the house I live in, my mother (who lives in Norwich, where I grew up) does. I will not be able to afford to buy my own house here when this is built, and I am upset over that prospect. After what happened over the past few weeks, I don't think I'd get hired over at Utopia if I wanted to work there (which I don't). They all know me as an 'agitator'. I hope Gentile and his band of scumbags all go to hell.

[runawayjim]

I've been thinking the same thing, but even if this is a success it's a disaster. That's what I'm most afraid of. I'm sitting here in what used to be my grandfather's (he's dead) living room which was built on a piece of land taken off from the family farm that's still run by family members. other than the farm, there are 3 families in my family that live within 300 feet of where I am. There are dozens of 2nd and some 3rd cousins that we treat as direct family. I will lose this. There is no way around this. I do not own the house I live in, my mother (who lives in Norwich, where I grew up) does. I will not be able to afford to buy my own house here when this is built, and I am upset over that prospect. After what happened over the past few weeks, I don't think I'd get hired over at Utopia if I wanted to work there (which I don't). They all know me as an 'agitator'. I hope Gentile and his band of scumbags all go to hell.

so your mother can't leave you the house? might be a good idea to get it in your name soon. although i don't know if i'd want to live there if utopia gets built.

i want to know what gentile has to say about the results. and even more importantly, i want to know what the first selectman has to say. his career is on the line really. what you should do is try to find some good investigative reporters who will try to dig up all the dirt they can on him. i'd be willing to be they'll find something that'll show him taking money behind the scenes from gentile to help promote the project.

[damus]

so your mother can't leave you the house? might be a good idea to get it in your name soon. although i don't know if i'd want to live there if utopia gets built.

i want to know what gentile has to say about the results. and even more importantly, i want to know what the first selectman has to say. his career is on the line really. what you should do is try to find some good investigative reporters who will try to dig up all the dirt they can on him. i'd be willing to be they'll find something that'll show him taking money behind the scenes from gentile to help promote the project.

He has suspected mob ties. I do not think anyone wants to get the real dirt on him. He's been ruthless in the past when he didn't seem to be getting his way, and one can only imagine what will happen now. My mom is depending on this house for retirement. The extended family will probably move away, at least a lot of them.

Here's a little evidence of corruption. One Utopia guy (who shall remain nameless for the sake of my not slandering him) was overheard by my cousin today telling another utopia guy "don't worry he'll be back i stuffed his pockets". Who is coming back and what the pockets were stuffed with I do not know, but I would guess those pockets were stuffed with cash. There is the one vague mob tie that was actually in the Day. It's weird that The Day was anti Utopia until a few weeks ago when utopia met with them.

[JimSawhill]

His name is Doug McCrory from my district in Hartford, democratic of course. This is his first re-election campaign since he took office 2 years ago. He lives right around the corner from me and is also a Vice Principal at Weaver High School in the North End of Hartford. He's real big on education, obviously, and that is really the only solution to the problems we face on our side of town.

Hartford Tycoon:

There's nothing wrong with Democrats. I believe that if you have 2 strong political parties, it will help the country. Locally the dems in Hartford aren't as liberal as the NATIONAL DEMS are. Yes, Education should be on the top of the list, but we ned to get the parents INVOLVED in the EDUCATION SYSTEM, too. Money won't solve the EDUCATION mess if the PARENTS don't care.

JimS

[JimSawhill]

One can only hope he takes this elsewhere. Let Hartford get it.

damus:

Yes it will change the character of the towns -- UNLESS the voters put in ZONING BOARD MEMBERS who will keep out DEVELOPMENT! If I was a farmer in Ledyard, and someone offered me 3 million dollars per acre, would I be NUTS to refuse? I'd first ask the state if they would buy the DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS to my land, then I'd see who would have the better offer.

If Farmer Brown wants to sell his land -- he got the right. I don't want to see farms leave, but it is a fact -- when a farmer dies, the estate taxes force the heirs to sell land -- or even small businesses.

Jim S

[damus]

damus:

Yes it will change the character of the towns -- UNLESS the voters put in ZONING BOARD MEMBERS who will keep out DEVELOPMENT! If I was a farmer in Ledyard, and someone offered me 3 million dollars per acre, would I be NUTS to refuse? I'd first ask the state if they would buy the DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS to my land, then I'd see who would have the better offer.

If Farmer Brown wants to sell his land -- he got the right. I don't want to see farms leave, but it is a fact -- when a farmer dies, the estate taxes force the heirs to sell land -- or even small businesses.

Jim S

If someone offered 3 million per acre, that person would be an idiot. I do not think people are smart enough/care enough to see that this is done right. It will be a mess, and the worst case scenario in my mind is frightening. If people were "voting with their mind" they would have said no to this nonsense today. Utopia has given us no reason to believe it's going to be a success. Their big star, Ron Perlman, was a star in ABC's big night-time made for TV movie. I am not impressed by these guys. The fact that they take questions about the project and turn around with personal insults says something about them. They need to go away. I grew up here and they, for the purpose of filling up their wallets, seem to be bent on ruining my heritage.

[JimSawhill]

I don't know what would be better there, but I do know this would not work. I've been through Norwich maybe twice in my life. I do find it funny though that you were so dead set against this going to the Hartford area before and now you are so for it. You said that SE CT was he best place for it and it wouldn't work in Hartford or anywhere else. Damus is probably the only one that is equipped to give a good answer as to what would fit in that spot...

Jerry:

As per your post #333, how do you know it WILL NOT work?? If you got ECONOMIC NUMBERS, I'd like to hear them. What do you want for the NSH site? Do you think the BUILDINGS there are helping the tax base of PRESTON? The Mohegans wanted the NSH site to build a MARINA, but if they bought it -- they'd be no taxes to Preston. At least someone is trying to create a tax producing business on it.

Jim S

[JimSawhill]

Wouldn't it be nice if Utopia came along and developed their sprawling corridor like what they want to put in Eastern CT along the commuter line stops? This project is absolutely wrong for the region. How many large parcels of land are there in the New Haven to Springfield area? This project seems to require, in addition to the main site, several 100+ acre sites.

damus:

As per post 339, what would you want the NSH site to be? If you say housing, Preston will have to expand their schools -- meaning raising taxes to the CITIZENS? What do you want the NSH site to be?

Jim S

[JimSawhill]

between new haven and hartford, there's a lot of nothing. but the problem is that they want waterfront, which they can't get along the I-91 corridor unless they do it along rt 9 and the CT river (which also has a lot of land, but it lacks railway). there's a lot of land in wallingford, northford, portland, durham, but it's not in huge areas and it's not along the highway or the river (ok, there is land in portland along the river).

what looks to be perfect is the east bank of the CT river both just north and just south of 291 in east hartford. this puts you in easy access of 91, 291, 84, 384, and 2... right on the river, and probably within view of downtown hartford. it also has great access from bradley, which is only a couple exits north.

runawayJim:

As per your post -- #341 --- the CT river south of the 291 bridge is a FLOOD PLAIN. Also, it is used for FARMING. Sould we tell the farmer they have to sell a FLOOD PLAIN to the state, so they can put UTOPIA on the land. The EARLY SPRING FLOODS will give a new meaning to WATER PARK!! Also there is an undeveloped state park there.

Jim S