PROPOSED: Utopia Project

[HartfordTycoon]

So being from an urban area and committed to politics and urban issues that affect the community, what do you think @ B'port? Take away all the glitz and glamour for just a second. Don't you think that an urban area stands to benefit much more with the creation of jobs, businesses, and overall quality of life? What possible objections could one have?

Um, Yes. Obviously. But whether the funding is in place to put it in Bridgeport is a totally different issue that needs to be addressed. Bear Stearns, Gentile, and myself like the odds of success in Preston. I like them in Bridgeport, but I am not Gentile or Bear Stearns.....

[HartfordTycoon]

but i still think hartford would be more realistic. it's closer to the casinos, it can feed off 6 flags and lake compounce (although it might put lake compounce out of business once and for all), and hartford stands to gain the most from train service... this would surely force the state to actually get some sort of rail service between hartford and new haven, probably going as far north as springfield. it would also give more reason to turn rt 6 into a real highway between the end of 384 and providence, connecting the only 2 major cities that are under 100 miles apart that have no highway connecting them to each other. and it would help pull hartford out of its slump.

Well the train service from New Haven to Hartford and Springfield is a signed deal now. That's coming regardless whatever else happens. Also, Hartford is pulling itself out of it's slump. We don't need Utopia. It would help, but we will be a very strong city again as long as we stay our current course.

[damus]

Well the train service from New Haven to Hartford and Springfield is a signed deal now. That's coming regardless whatever else happens.

Wouldn't it be nice if Utopia came along and developed their sprawling corridor like what they want to put in Eastern CT along the commuter line stops? This project is absolutely wrong for the region. How many large parcels of land are there in the New Haven to Springfield area? This project seems to require, in addition to the main site, several 100+ acre sites.

[HartfordTycoon]

Wouldn't it be nice if Utopia came along and developed their sprawling corridor like what they want to put in Eastern CT along the commuter line stops? This project is absolutely wrong for the region. How many large parcels of land are there in the New Haven to Springfield area? This project seems to require, in addition to the main site, several 100+ acre sites.

I'm not sure there are enough. There may be. I'd be all for it being on the I91 corridor.

I don't think you guys are really truly taking into account the marketing blitz that will come with Utopia. I have some background in marketing as well, and it's going to be a lot easier to market SE CT as Utopia than the I91 corridor. I'm sure this is all part of the projected viability of the project. For what it's worth, I would much rather take a vacation to SE CT than to anywhere on the I91 corridor. They want patrons from in state as well (wealthiest state in the nation). It's gonna be a harder sell to get people onto a Resort in Hartford than one in Preston, that's a fact. There are a lot of factors that you need to look at to see this from a developers point of view.

[runawayjim]

Wouldn't it be nice if Utopia came along and developed their sprawling corridor like what they want to put in Eastern CT along the commuter line stops? This project is absolutely wrong for the region. How many large parcels of land are there in the New Haven to Springfield area? This project seems to require, in addition to the main site, several 100+ acre sites.

between new haven and hartford, there's a lot of nothing. but the problem is that they want waterfront, which they can't get along the I-91 corridor unless they do it along rt 9 and the CT river (which also has a lot of land, but it lacks railway). there's a lot of land in wallingford, northford, portland, durham, but it's not in huge areas and it's not along the highway or the river (ok, there is land in portland along the river).

what looks to be perfect is the east bank of the CT river both just north and just south of 291 in east hartford. this puts you in easy access of 91, 291, 84, 384, and 2... right on the river, and probably within view of downtown hartford. it also has great access from bradley, which is only a couple exits north.

[Jerry2]

between new haven and hartford, there's a lot of nothing. but the problem is that they want waterfront, which they can't get along the I-91 corridor unless they do it along rt 9 and the CT river (which also has a lot of land, but it lacks railway). there's a lot of land in wallingford, northford, portland, durham, but it's not in huge areas and it's not along the highway or the river (ok, there is land in portland along the river).

what looks to be perfect is the east bank of the CT river both just north and just south of 291 in east hartford. this puts you in easy access of 91, 291, 84, 384, and 2... right on the river, and probably within view of downtown hartford. it also has great access from bradley, which is only a couple exits north.

Preston is waterfront?

[runawayjim]

I'm not sure there are enough. There may be. I'd be all for it being on the I91 corridor.

I don't think you guys are really truly taking into account the marketing blitz that will come with Utopia. I have some background in marketing as well, and it's going to be a lot easier to market SE CT as Utopia than the I91 corridor. I'm sure this is all part of the projected viability of the project. For what it's worth, I would much rather take a vacation to SE CT than to anywhere on the I91 corridor. They want patrons from in state as well (wealthiest state in the nation). It's gonna be a harder sell to get people onto a Resort in Hartford than one in Preston, that's a fact. There are a lot of factors that you need to look at to see this from a developers point of view.

so they want it to seem like utopia, the perfect society in the quiet part of southeastern CT... i think what the residents of that area have now is much closer to the utopia ideal than whatever utopia studios can offer.

the whole thing is a marketing sham... gentile sounds like the slimiest, sleaziest marketing guru out there... and unfortunately, the residents of preston are buying it.

Preston is waterfront?

not completely... but that hospital site is on the thames river, just north of the mohegan bridge, directly across the river from mohegan sun.

[HartfordTycoon]

so they want it to seem like utopia, the perfect society in the quiet part of southeastern CT... i think what the residents of that area have now is much closer to the utopia ideal than whatever utopia studios can offer.

the whole thing is a marketing sham... gentile sounds like the slimiest, sleaziest marketing guru out there... and unfortunately, the residents of preston are buying it.

not completely... but that hospital site is on the thames river, just north of the mohegan bridge, directly across the river from mohegan sun.

Well at least it seems like you see what Joe Gentile is doing even if you don't agree with it. Preston is great from his point of view. It's very marketable, and that's why he is so dead set on it.

[runawayjim]

Well at least it seems like you see what Joe Gentile is doing even if you don't agree with it. Preston is great from his point of view. It's very marketable, and that's why he is so dead set on it.

if he was completely open and honest about all his ideas and plans with the residents of preston and the nearby towns, i might agree more. but i can't blindly agree with something just because there is the possibility it would be great for the region and the state and because it sounds wonderful... all in theory of course.

plans of this size and caliber need to be presented in full to the residents, leaving nothing hidden. he has yet to reveal all his true plans and ideas and the exact impact this would have on the town. until then, i am left with no choice but to think it would be a bad idea...

[HartfordTycoon]

Actually, that tells you more about why this may be a bad idea than a good one. The fact is that Orlando area was one of the fastest growing in the state long before Disney came in. It was a hub for agriculture, particularly Orange growing, already had some tourist industry going for it, and manufacturing. Disney changed that - suddenly it became dominated by Disney, and everything they do is basically geared to promoting that company. They spend lots of money building roads and service to the resorts. In exchange, the Disney coproration takes up city and state bonds, leaving less for those surrounding towns and cities to use for themselves. The city of Orlando itself (well north of Disney - which is actually in Lake Buena Vista), strugels to get out from that shadow.

Are you really looking into the financial implications this brings? Sure they will provide jobs - are they quality jobs? Will the pay taxes, or will they thrive under tax relief? Who is going to pay to upkeep the roads and services? Will you even have enough resouces? And how are you going to afford and cope with the associated businesses that develop outside of the project and it's controls? There's a lot here that is not being addressed, and is very shortsighted.

But those issues cannot be addressed fully because there are too many unknowns. I think it would be more dishonest for them to say look if this things get's built, this will happen or that will happen and another outside company and developer will do this or that and so on. The fact is nobody knows what the full extent will be, and that's being honest. The unkown aspects don't make it a bad plan. There are also variables that are within the town's control. The town can decide what sort of development it will allow beyond the Utopia property and can shape what they become. I just don't see why the negatives could or would not be dealt with in an acceptable way.

[SOCOM]

Preston is waterfront?

Every rendering to date has showcased the Thames River. The site is directly across from the Mohegan Sun Casino.

[HartfordTycoon]

Every rendering to date has showcased the Thames River. The site is directly across from the Mohegan Sun Casino.

I can easily see the draw to this site. Look at this picture, I mean c'mon. It's hard to beat this anywhere in the USA. This is somewhere I would go to to get away from the big city life in Hartford. Just look at Mohegan sun sitting across the river from an abandoned eyesore. It's sad. This place is begging to be developed.

[runawayjim]

But those issues cannot be addressed fully because there are too many unknowns. I think it would be more dishonest for them to say look if this things get's built, this will happen or that will happen and another outside company and developer will do this or that and so on. The fact is nobody knows what the full extent will be, and that's being honest. The unkown aspects don't make it a bad plan. There are also variables that are within the town's control. The town can decide what sort of development it will allow beyond the Utopia property and can shape what they become. I just don't see why the negatives could or would not be dealt with in an acceptable way.

there are unknowns to us and the town... but gentile certainly has a plan that he's not informing anyone of. that's the big issue.

also, think about orlando again... the city of orlando is a pretty trashy city and is one of the best examples of the harm sprawl has on an area. this utopia project is situated just south of a city that is trying to remove the trashy image it has. how can we be sure that utopia won't do to norwich what disney did to orlando? and yes, i do know that there's the flipside, but that's now what i'm asking. gentile has yet to prove that he has a plan for this.

[damus]

There are a few large parcels left in Norwich, a few farms for sale over on the north end off 395 and Cantebury Turnpike. I have not heard of any Utopia interest in those parcels. As far as Norwich is concerned, if the 80 acres on the Norwich side of the hospital property aren't developed they're going to be in for one hell of a rough ride when this is built. They are having enough trouble with the casino workers....

[HartfordTycoon]

There are a few large parcels left in Norwich, a few farms for sale over on the north end off 395 and Cantebury Turnpike. I have not heard of any Utopia interest in those parcels. As far as Norwich is concerned, if the 80 acres on the Norwich side of the hospital property aren't developed they're going to be in for one hell of a rough ride when this is built. They are having enough trouble with the casino workers....

I'm pretty sure development on the 80 acre Norwich part of the hospital site would pretty much coincide with the development of Utopia.

[HartfordTycoon]

there are unknowns to us and the town... but gentile certainly has a plan that he's not informing anyone of. that's the big issue.

also, think about orlando again... the city of orlando is a pretty trashy city and is one of the best examples of the harm sprawl has on an area. this utopia project is situated just south of a city that is trying to remove the trashy image it has. how can we be sure that utopia won't do to norwich what disney did to orlando? and yes, i do know that there's the flipside, but that's now what i'm asking. gentile has yet to prove that he has a plan for this.

I'm talking about the ripple effect that is being brought up. No one can speak for how development will occur in SE CT after Utopia comes in. I've been on several commercial real estate sites in that area and they both have pictures of Utopia up as if it's a done deal, and are selling property close to it by marketing the project itself. Utopia may have some more details that they have not released, but this is business. You can't make your entire business plan public.

[damus]

I'm pretty sure development on the 80 acre Norwich part of the hospital site would pretty much coincide with the development of Utopia.

Norwich hasnt even started discussions with Utopia yet .... whatever gets put in Norwich will be done a little while after the Preston part, perhaps part of phase 2 or 3

[runawayjim]

I'm talking about the ripple effect that is being brought up. No one can speak for how development will occur in SE CT after Utopia comes in. I've been on several commercial real estate sites in that area and they both have pictures of Utopia up as if it's a done deal, and are selling property close to it by marketing the project itself. Utopia may have some more details that they have not released, but this is business. You can't make your entire business plan public.

they haven't made public their development plans other than this great idea that sounds wonderful in theory. that's what i was getting at. obviously no one will know what could happen after utopia comes in since it's not there yet. it really bothers me that so many people consider it a done deal... it makes the first selectman look like he's getting a little something on the side.

[HartfordTycoon]

they haven't made public their development plans other than this great idea that sounds wonderful in theory. that's what i was getting at. obviously no one will know what could happen after utopia comes in since it's not there yet. it really bothers me that so many people consider it a done deal... it makes the first selectman look like he's getting a little something on the side.

I support the project, but would not be surprised to see him end up being a big shot at Utopia after this is done. If so, he should be investigated though.....

[runawayjim]

I support the project, but would not be surprised to see him end up being a big shot at Utopia after this is done. If so, he should be investigated though.....

i think it becomes too late at that point... if he's getting something behind the town's back, then he knows that the project would not be the least bit supported if he wasn't so openly in favor of it.

[HartfordTycoon]

i think it becomes too late at that point... if he's getting something behind the town's back, then he knows that the project would not be the least bit supported if he wasn't so openly in favor of it.

Of course this is all speculation. No proof of any wrongdoing has been presented to me. Innocent until proven guilty in America.

[runawayjim]

Of course this is all speculation. No proof of any wrongdoing has been presented to me. Innocent until proven guilty in America.

i'm not saying he's guilty... but he certainly sounds suspicious being so biasedly in favor of this and not even trying to get gentile to present anything of any meaning to the town.

and in america, it's more like "innocent until you get seriously bad press" regardless of whether or not you committed the crime.

[HartfordTycoon]

i'm not saying he's guilty... but he certainly sounds suspicious being so biasedly in favor of this and not even trying to get gentile to present anything of any meaning to the town.

and in america, it's more like "innocent until you get seriously bad press" regardless of whether or not you committed the crime.

Can't argue with that. Eveyone in this country is tried in the media first. That's Entertainment for you, America's bread and butter.

[damus]

Can't argue with that. Eveyone in this country is tried in the media first. That's Entertainment for you, America's bread and butter.

The media is making this guy out to be a saint. It's people in town who have talked with him and paid attention somewhat that take him for an a--hole.

[damus]

On the gossip front: Joe Gentile was eating breakfast with Bob Congdon (Preston 1st Selectman) at the retaurant at the Marriot in Norwich...