PROPOSED: Utopia Project

[runawayjim]

jim,

do you have anything INTELLIGENT to add to DISCUSSION? or just personal ATTACKS?

[PCGrad02]

Preston owns the land, the state handed it over for $1, Norwich owns its part too.

[damus]

Damus:

If you live in Preston, Ledyard, Montville or Norwich why not run for the ZONING BOARD? If you and a few others run for zoning board -- and you win -- you can vote AGAINST DEVELOPMENT. If you run and you lose, SORRY, but the voters spoke.

ORLANDOIZATION? Is that a word you invented? Do you know that the Orlando area has more MANUFACTURING JOBS then Tourism related jobs?

JimS

Well.. I'd need to see proof. I guess I did invent ORLANDOIZATION. This is what I got from ABOUT.COM.

http://orlando.about.com/library/essential...employment1.htm

Central Florida's Top Private Employers

Walt Disney World 55,900

Adventist Health System 18,797

Publix 15,628

Universal Orlando 12,000

Orlando Regional Healthcare System 12,000

Wal*Mart 11,125

Winn-Dixie 8,045

Lockheed Martin 7,998

Marriott International 5,994

McDonald's 5,600

Looks to me like DISNEY and UNIVERSAL alone employ OVER 77,000. Add in the other smaller attractions, restaurants, hotels, stores and it looks to me like it's a TOURIST based ECONOMY over there in ORLANDO. I cannot imagine too many SMALL manufacturers adding up to employing more than the TOURISM industry directly and indirectly EMPLOYS. The only large MANUFACTURER I see on that list is LOCKHEED MARTIN. What do they manufacture at Lockheed's PLANT there? Does it have more to do with COMMERCIAL aircraft or was that site built to support NASA's Cape Canaveral SPACE CENTER?

The reason I won't run for the ZONING BOARD is the same reason I post on URBAN PLANET so much lately. I am a primary caretaker for my GRANDMOTHER along with one of my brothers, my mother, and my uncle. Between that, work, and what little time time I have for the rest of my life I have left I do not have time to run for the ZONING BOARD. I have been spending my time somewhat wisely and will be creating PAMPHLETS that will lay out what the UTOPIA project might to do the region. I do NOT want to see a RURAL region UNNECCESARILY TRANSFORMED into an URBAN or EXURBAN wasteland.

ON EDIT: I know that this may be a STRETCH... but didn't the German VOTERS vote for the NAZI Party? It's not said and done if/when these people are voted in. I'm not going to stop trying until Utopia is BUILT.

[HartfordTycoon]

Well.. I'd need to see proof. I guess I did invent ORLANDOIZATION. This is what I got from ABOUT.COM.

http://orlando.about.com/library/essential...employment1.htm

Looks to me like DISNEY and UNIVERSAL alone employ OVER 77,000. Add in the other smaller attractions, restaurants, hotels, stores and it looks to me like it's a TOURIST based ECONOMY over there in ORLANDO. I cannot imagine too many SMALL manufacturers adding up to employing more than the TOURISM industry directly and indirectly EMPLOYS. The only large MANUFACTURER I see on that list is LOCKHEED MARTIN. What do they manufacture at Lockheed's PLANT there? Does it have more to do with COMMERCIAL aircraft or was that site built to support NASA's Cape Canaveral SPACE CENTER?

The reason I won't run for the ZONING BOARD is the same reason I post on URBAN PLANET so much lately. I am a primary caretaker for my GRANDMOTHER along with one of my brothers, my mother, and my uncle. Between that, work, and what little time time I have for the rest of my life I have left I do not have time to run for the ZONING BOARD. I have been spending my time somewhat wisely and will be creating PAMPHLETS that will lay out what the UTOPIA project might to do the region. I do NOT want to see a RURAL region UNNECCESARILY TRANSFORMED into an URBAN or EXURBAN wasteland.

ON EDIT: I know that this may be a STRETCH... but didn't the German VOTERS vote for the NAZI Party? It's not said and done if/when these people are voted in. I'm not going to stop trying until Utopia is BUILT.

You have the most valid reasons for opposing the project. You live in the area and like it the way it is. I can understand and truly respect that position. I just hope that you at least appreciate and understand why so many people do want it to become a reality.

[Cotuit]

I have a better time understand the arguments against it based on sprawl and quality of life issues as opposed to actually attacking the feasability of the development.

Theme Park proposals have come and gone over the last few decades in Plymouth, MA and Cape Cod. It would behoove the people of Southeast Connecticut to understand why those never happened and why Utopia seems to think it can make it work now. I don't claim to have the answers either way, but it's something that should be studied. It's also a fact that the vast majority of amusement parks in the region (save for Six Flags) have closed in the last few decades, why is that? Again, I don't claim to know why, but it is a question that should be asked and answered before people declare Utopia to be a slam dunk.

If Utopia did fail, I think one would rather have the current empty buildings than a march larger, and ill suited for adaptive reuse, theme park sitting empty.

[Cotuit]

I don't understand how people who are so keen on the urbanization of Hartford can be so blase about the sprawling of one of the last rural areas of the state. Why does Southeast Connecticut really even need more industry? Wouldn't it be better to focus development on the Connecticut River valley? People can choose to continue living in SE CT and either find jobs or not, or they can choose to commute to jobs in the CT River valley, or they can move to the urban areas in the CT River valley to be near jobs.

[runawayjim]

You have the most valid reasons for opposing the project. You live in the area and like it the way it is. I can understand and truly respect that position. I just hope that you at least appreciate and understand why so many people do want it to become a reality.

you don't live in that area, and seemingly don't seem to care about the resulting sprawl it will cause. what if this were proposed for the rural areas just north of hartford? it makes more sense to put it there than SE CT being that 91 and 85 are more suited to handle the traffic and bradley is right there. and you still have the CT river nearby.

SE CT is a rural area, it does not need this as much as you would think. let's sprawl out a part of the state we don't really care about because it benefits the state as a whole. that's a great idea...

i don't live there, but i do have friends and family in that area. unless they have a really good plan to handle the traffic, this project should not go through. if the project fails (and i'm not saying it will, but look at all the amusement parks that have closed down in the past decade in and around CT), the town of preston and city of norwich will be left with bigger vacant buildings and a vacant amusement park... i think the buildings currently there are probably much nicer looking and can be more easily renovated into something else than this project. quality of life is the biggest issue of this project. why are people so excited about this and why have those towns not tried to lure some corporations in to take the land and build there? it makes for a great manufacturing location situated right on the river, or even a biotech campus would be great there... surely that kind of business would be better for the area and the state than utopia.

[HartfordTycoon]

you don't live in that area, and seemingly don't seem to care about the resulting sprawl it will cause. what if this were proposed for the rural areas just north of hartford? it makes more sense to put it there than SE CT being that 91 and 85 are more suited to handle the traffic and bradley is right there. and you still have the CT river nearby.

SE CT is a rural area, it does not need this as much as you would think. let's sprawl out a part of the state we don't really care about because it benefits the state as a whole. that's a great idea...

i don't live there, but i do have friends and family in that area. unless they have a really good plan to handle the traffic, this project should not go through. if the project fails (and i'm not saying it will, but look at all the amusement parks that have closed down in the past decade in and around CT), the town of preston and city of norwich will be left with bigger vacant buildings and a vacant amusement park... i think the buildings currently there are probably much nicer looking and can be more easily renovated into something else than this project. quality of life is the biggest issue of this project. why are people so excited about this and why have those towns not tried to lure some corporations in to take the land and build there? it makes for a great manufacturing location situated right on the river, or even a biotech campus would be great there... surely that kind of business would be better for the area and the state than utopia.

Vaid points. First I'm not sure another business would be better for the state overall as you assert near the end of your post. I have stated many times that Entertainment is among if not the largest and most lucrative businesses in the U.S. and the world. Why would we not want that industry to create a large pressence here?

Second, I would love for them to put this thing in or near Hartford if I felt it made business sense to do so. I do not think it does. As I've stated before Greater Hartford does not have the existing market for tourism that SE CT has, nor do we have anywear close the the potential that SE CT has to become a World Class Tourist Destination. IMO. World Class Business Center, Yes. Tourism, No. Like it or not, we now have a tourism area in CT. The only thing to do from a business perspective is to increase our market share for tourism dollars by choosing to put tourism attractions where they would be a natural fit to compliment what's already there. I'm a hartford booster and know if this thing is what they say it may be it will help us out indirectly. It's already helped out the Hartford law firms and more than likely it will generate more business for those firms down the line. I think it could also help our insurance and financial services sectors as well, by bringing more money into the state and more of a need for our isurers products. Lastly, I would hope that it would have some kind of residual effect on Hartford's desirability as a convention/ event and tourism location.

Like I said, I understand the concerns, but the bottom line is that in my opinion it's a good business move and that's why I support it. SE CT is far from the last Rural Area in the state. Litchfield County is far more rural, and Windham is pretty much rural too. I do not think that this will decimate the character of the region. I think it could help Norwich become a more prominent city, with a much larger population, which would be good for them IMO. I live in a city and wish the population would double. There is room to absorb this stuff without completely destroying everything. The Casinos are big and it still seems like the middle of nowhere to me. I really don't see that changing too much.

[Jerry2]

I don't understand how people who are so keen on the urbanization of Hartford can be so blase about the sprawling of one of the last rural areas of the state. Why does Southeast Connecticut really even need more industry? Wouldn't it be better to focus development on the Connecticut River valley? People can choose to continue living in SE CT and either find jobs or not, or they can choose to commute to jobs in the CT River valley, or they can move to the urban areas in the CT River valley to be near jobs.

Thank-you. They could put this thing in Bridgeport, Manchester, Bloomfield or Windsor Locks. All locations with the exception of B'port would directly benefit H'ford. This site will do nothing for the city's economy. Period. It will divert investment to a corner of the state that has stolen attractions from the rest of CT and RI..(venues, concerts, events.) Try Foxwoods and Mohegan.

[HartfordTycoon]

Thank-you. They could put this thing in Bridgeport, Manchester, Bloomfield or Windsor Locks. All locations with the exception of B'port would directly benefit H'ford. This site will do nothing for the city's economy. Period. It will divert investment to a corner of the state that has stolen attractions from the rest of CT and RI..(venues, concerts, events.) Try Foxwoods and Mohegan.

Foxwood and Mohegan don't hurt Hartford in my opinion. I think they are good corporate neighbors and they are always supportive of development in Hartford. Those attractions just add to the variety here in CT as Hartford does get more than it's fair share of national acts, so do the casinos. CT probably has more national acts at our venues annually than RI and Mass combined. I think that may be the REAL issue alot of the RI people have. The concerts come to Hartford because it's centrally located in CT. That's not gonna change. It could hurt the venues in RI due to your sandwiched position between SE CT and Boston. I'm certainly willing to take that risk though.

[runawayjim]

Vaid points. First I'm not sure another business would be better for the state overall as you assert near the end of your post. I have stated many times that Entertainment is among if not the largest and most lucrative businesses in the U.S. and the world. Why would we not want that industry to create a large pressence here?

Second, I would love for them to put this thing in or near Hartford if I felt it made business sense to do so. I do not think it does. As I've stated before Greater Hartford does not have the existing market for tourism that SE CT has, nor do we have anywear close the the potential that SE CT has to become a World Class Tourist Destination. IMO. World Class Business Center, Yes. Tourism, No. Like it or not, we now have a tourism area in CT. The only thing to do from a business perspective is to increase our market share for tourism dollars by choosing to put tourism attractions where they would be a natural fit to compliment what's already there. I'm a hartford booster and know if this thing is what they say it may be it will help us out indirectly. It's already helped out the Hartford law firms and more than likely it will generate more business for those firms down the line. I think it could also help our insurance and financial services sectors as well, by bringing more money into the state and more of a need for our isurers products. Lastly, I would hope that it would have some kind of residual effect on Hartford's desirability as a convention/ event and tourism location.

Like I said, I understand the concerns, but the bottom line is that in my opinion it's a good business move and that's why I support it. SE CT is far from the last Rural Area in the state. Litchfield County is far more rural, and Windham is pretty much rural too. I do not think that this will decimate the character of the region. I think it could help Norwich become a more prominent city, with a much larger population, which would be good for them IMO. I live in a city and wish the population would double. There is room to absorb this stuff without completely destroying everything. The Casinos are big and it still seems like the middle of nowhere to me. I really don't see that changing too much.

this is more than just tourism... it's also business. you already have tourist areas near hartford. i don't count gamblers who most likely wouldn't bat an eye at this place as tourists. the people going to foxwoods and mohegan sun wouldn't stop going there to go to utopia. it would attract toursts who would othewise be going to 6 flags or lake compounce most likely. why not put this up near hartford where there are already 2 nearby amusement parks? it wouldn't kill the landscape up there. but i bet it'd get a lot more opposition because of the rich NIMBY's from suffield, bloomfield, avon, and west hartford and no other reason than they don't want it there because they don't like it.

yes, there are more rural areas in CT than preston, but some of them can handle the traffic better than SE CT. the casinos are in the middle of nowhere, especially foxwoods, but there's a lot of traffic on rt 2 down there. the mohegan bridge isn't that old and this project would require it be expanded.

a good business move does not equate to a good overall move. i don't feel like this is a good overall move for the local community. i think you're failing to realize that in thinking about the state as a whole (which is important, but it shouldn't damage the local community in the process).

[HartfordTycoon]

a good business move does not equate to a good overall move. i don't feel like this is a good overall move for the local community. i think you're failing to realize that in thinking about the state as a whole (which is important, but it shouldn't damage the local community in the process).

Exactly. That's why I don't get to vote on it. The people of Preston will decide. If they want it, who are you to say it shouldn't be built?

[runawayjim]

Foxwood and Mohegan don't hurt Hartford in my opinion. I think they are good corporate neighbors and they are always supportive of development in Hartford. Those attractions just add to the variety here in CT as Hartford does get more than it's fair share of national acts, so do the casinos. CT probably has more national acts at our venues annually than RI and Mass combined. I think that may be the REAL issue alot of the RI people have. The concerts come to Hartford because it's centrally located in CT. That's not gonna change. It could hurt the venues in RI due to your sandwiched position between SE CT and Boston. I'm certainly willing to take that risk though.

CT has more national acts than RI, but not RI and MA combined. given that the tweeter center is close to providence (closer to prov than boston in fact, even though they call it boston on the tweeter center website), we kind of get those too. but yes, the casinos (mainly mohegan) pull a lot of national acts from providence. although we have nothing big this summer because the dunk is closed for renovations, which will hopefully draw more and compete better with the casino and hartford civic center.

RI does get a lot of smaller national acts at lupo's (even some bigger ones too).

Exactly. That's why I don't get to vote on it. The people of Preston will decide. If they want it, who are you to say it shouldn't be built?

my concern is that they won't get all the facts until after it's been voted on (assuming they vote yes).

[HartfordTycoon]

CT has more national acts than RI, but not RI and MA combined. given that the tweeter center is close to providence (closer to prov than boston in fact, even though they call it boston on the tweeter center website), we kind of get those too. but yes, the casinos (mainly mohegan) pull a lot of national acts from providence. although we have nothing big this summer because the dunk is closed for renovations, which will hopefully draw more and compete better with the casino and hartford civic center.

RI does get a lot of smaller national acts at lupo's (even some bigger ones too).

my concern is that they won't get all the facts until after it's been voted on (assuming they vote yes).

I don't know if it's mainly Mohegan. Last I checked Foxwoods has shows a lot more frequently and draws bigger named acts than Mohegan. We just have alot of venues, it's hard to compete with CT. We have the Civic Center, CT Expo Center, The Webster Theater, The Dodge Music Center (formerly the Meadows) and The Busnell all in Hartford. We have Rentschler Field in E. Htfd. We have venues at Foxwoods and Mohegan in SE CT. We have The Arena at Harbor Yard in Bridgeport and The Chevrolet Theater (formerly the Oakdale) in Wallingford. That's a hell of a lot to compete against. And if they are going to put a venue at Utopia and the MGM Grand at Foxwoods that's creates even more venues. Somehow we are supporting them now. In my opinion that's pretty great and we need to build on that success.

[damus]

Exactly. That's why I don't get to vote on it. The people of Preston will decide. If they want it, who are you to say it shouldn't be built?

My problem with that is you're relying on an uneducated populace to vote on its future. The news and the town's board of selectmen has taken a neutral approach (though a pro utopia stance on the editorial pages) and Utopia has had tons of chances to sell their product (Utopian in that apparantly nothing can go wrong with it). If people had the slightest clue (which is all I really have ... they're keeping the public in the dark with their overall plans), they'd realize that they don't want this. These are the same people who didn't want Six Flags because of the change to the regions character. They oppose hotels and shopping centers in town for the same reason. Gentile and co. are leading them to believe that this will be a contained project that will only affect their property taxes and nothing else. Most of them are buying it hook line and sinker.

[HartfordTycoon]

My problem with that is you're relying on an uneducated populace to vote on its future. The news and the town's board of selectmen has taken a neutral approach (though a pro utopia stance on the editorial pages) and Utopia has had tons of chances to sell their product (Utopian in that apparantly nothing can go wrong with it). If people had the slightest clue (which is all I really have ... they're keeping the public in the dark with their overall plans), they'd realize that they don't want this. These are the same people who didn't want Six Flags because of the change to the regions character. They oppose hotels and shopping centers in town for the same reason. Gentile and co. are leading them to believe that this will be a contained project that will only affect their property taxes and nothing else. Most of them are buying it hook line and sinker.

Wouldn't you say that to a degree most development leaves some questions unanswered until the development phase actually begins. I think most people are aware of the general plan and how large this will be. At least here in Hartford (where we hope it has a huge impact on CT) we know it's gonna be big and change things. Why would the people of Preston not think that? Isn't it possible at all that they just think this is the right idea at the right time and the right place?

[Jerry2]

Foxwood and Mohegan don't hurt Hartford in my opinion. I think they are good corporate neighbors and they are always supportive of development in Hartford. Those attractions just add to the variety here in CT as Hartford does get more than it's fair share of national acts, so do the casinos. CT probably has more national acts at our venues annually than RI and Mass combined. I think that may be the REAL issue alot of the RI people have. The concerts come to Hartford because it's centrally located in CT. That's not gonna change. It could hurt the venues in RI due to your sandwiched position between SE CT and Boston. I'm certainly willing to take that risk though.

I have a big problem when people have entirely too much faith in somebody else. You are always putting CT on a pedestal as if it were the biggest economic engine tha the US has seen in decades. I'm not trying to create a versus thread here. You're probably right...well half right...Htfd. does attract more venues than RI. How many of those venues that play at the casinos would have played at Hrtford though? How many conventions would have gone or could potentially go to Hrtfd? The state of CT pumped all this $$ into a multi-million dollar revitalization in the city of Htfd w/ the intention of creating an economic powerhouse. ( which it was not very long ago),....and now the focus on the economy is leaning towards this type of investment over an hour away in a rural area..C'mon..Let me tell you something...The majority of the people that go to the CT casinos are local. ( MA,CT,RI)When tourists think of casinos, they think of Las Vegas or Atlantic City. ..not CT...RI is getting ready to put casinos on the ballot( yet again)this election year. Now, we've got Donald Trump in their corner. The likelihood of this passing is a lot likelier now. Do you not think that Foxwoods and the seedy slot halls here in RI will suffer? Of course they will....I would guess more than half their business comes from RI and Boston metro...just check the parking garage there and you can count the license plates.

These type of businesses are not good for the region. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that Prov is some blissful bastion...or that we get more concert venues.That's not my style. I like to post here because there are people who do influence me on my opinions and the info is refreshing....but when somebody doesn't add anything to the conversation and seemngly tries to instigate a versus thread, it becomes a little annoying. I like both cities very much, but I'm concerned with the effect this will have on both of our urban areas. There are much more creative ways economically that we can rebound as a region.In case you haven't seen the article, check out cnn.com.....more rapid population loss expected for the NE. Noe, how do you thin this silly project will help that out? Why not get to the root of the real issue and try to fix it?

[HartfordTycoon]

I have a big problem when people have entirely too much faith in somebody else. You are always putting CT on a pedestal as if it were the biggest economic engine tha the US has seen in decades. I'm not trying to create a versus thread here. You're probably right...well half right...Htfd. does attract more venues than RI. How many of those venues that play at the casinos would have played at Hrtford though? How many conventions would have gone or could potentially go to Hrtfd? The state of CT pumped all this $$ into a multi-million dollar revitalization in the city of Htfd w/ the intention of creating an economic powerhouse. ( which it was not very long ago),....and now the focus on the economy is leaning towards this type of investment over an hour away in a rural area..C'mon..Let me tell you something...The majority of the people that go to the CT casinos are local. ( MA,CT,RI)When tourists think of casinos, they think of Las Vegas or Atlantic City. ..not CT...RI is getting ready to put casinos on the ballot( yet again)this election year. Now, we've got Donald Trump in their corner. The likelihood of this passing is a lot likelier now. Do you not think that Foxwoods and the seedy slot halls here in RI will suffer? Of course they will....I would guess more than half their business comes from RI and Boston metro...just check the parking garage there and you can count the license plates.

These type of businesses are not good for the region. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that Prov is some blissful bastion...or that we get more concert venues.That's not my style. I like to post here because there are people who do influence me on my opinions and the info is refreshing....but when somebody doesn't add anything to the conversation and seemngly tries to instigate a versus thread, it becomes a little annoying. I like both cities very much, but I'm concerned with the effect this will have on both of our urban areas. There are much more creative ways economically that we can rebound as a region.In case you haven't seen the article, check out cnn.com.....more rapid population loss expected for the NE. Noe, how do you thin this silly project will help that out? Why not get to the root of the real issue and try to fix it?

I honestly did not want to start a vs thread. I just think that this is a good addition to the region not a bad one. I just got off of the Norwich Bulletin site looking at pics of the hostpital and it's horrible. I mean they need something really good to go right there. There's gonna be a lot of good jobs with this, blue collar jobs we need those around here. Some lady spoke at a meeting and said she supports it largely due to the performing arts school because her son is interested in that type of school. That could be really good. I mean there's a lot of good stuff there. There really will be a whole new world of opportunity for the people of the region that a six flags or casino can't offer. A lot of people are ready for a change around there is what I'm seeing and reading.

And also I think it would be good for the region in the long run. I don't care if they compete with Hartford. It's the oppurtunity of a lifetime for them and I hope they don't let it pass them by. I mean if they end up putting 4 hotels in Preston imagine what they are gonna get to put up on the Norwich Side of the property. I think Norwich needs something like this.

[damus]

Wouldn't you say that to a degree most development leaves some questions unanswered until the development phase actually begins. I think most people are aware of the general plan and how large this will be. At least here in Hartford (where we hope it has a huge impact on CT) we know it's gonna be big and change things. Why would the people of Preston not think that? Isn't it possible at all that they just think this is the right idea at the right time and the right place?

They aren't thinking of all the other properties that have been bought or looked at by Utopia. They are looking at this thing and believing Joe Gentile when he says that all that the area will need is a second span across the Thames and no bypass or other road improvements. There's Joe Gentile using bribery tactics when negotiating with potential voters. He offered me a $50/hr job working construction with no experience. They keep reiterating that Utopia will "be in the isolated corner of town, not adding any traffic to town roads, and lowering taxes".

There's a problem here. There are no public voices questioning if this project would be a reasonable fit with the region, but we got Joe Gentile out there kissing babies and telling everyone that everything is OK. Seriously, try talking to him, asking him questions about the project ... he'd lead you to believe that there are NO drawbacks to this. I talked to one of Joe's minions one time, and asked about the Bozrah and Waterford properties. He said those would be "ancillary developments with almost no effect on the region". I find this all hard to believe. The Utopia people are not being honest, and people either don't see it or don't care.

I would be willing to bet that more than half of the voters do not know that this would be the start of a series of developments strewn across the area. We are voting on whether or not to sell out the region for an unproven developer with ambitions to make the next Disney World. They do believe this is the right idea at the right time at the right place, and that is the problem. There is a reason why Utopia was laughed out of Long Island, New Jersey, and the Dominican Republic. You would have to be crazy to want this in your back yard.

[drc72]

You have the most valid reasons for opposing the project. You live in the area and like it the way it is. I can understand and truly respect that position. I just hope that you at least appreciate and understand why so many people do want it to become a reality.

I hope this does happen. Tourism is a big business and CT has a chance to capitolise on this wonderful economic opprtunity. Also this doesn't neccasarily mean the towns in the affected areas are gonna lose their rural character, but I will agree that sprawl could very well be a possibilty from all this.

[damus]

Also this doesn't neccasarily mean the towns in the affected areas are gonna lose their rural character, but I will agree that sprawl could very well be a possibilty from all this.

I'd like to know how they won't. If the theme park component draws Disney World numbers like they say it will, that will be enough to attract sprawling development in hotels, restaurants, gas stations, and require new highway construction. Add in the college and studios in Preston, and all the ancillary developments such as the "entertainment corridor from Waterford to RI" that includes a 300+ acre animation/movie studio in Waterford and this all spells modern-day Orlando to me.

[Cotuit]

Wouldn't you say that to a degree most development leaves some questions unanswered until the development phase actually begins.

A project this big shouldn't be leaving anywhere near this many questions unaswered. There's a serious problem with your state government if they aren't asking the questions that need to be asked here.

[HartfordTycoon]

I know I am beating my head against a brick wall here, but... DO YOU GUYS HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT KIND OF REGIONAL EFFECT THIS PROJECT MIGHT HAVE?

Seriously. We know NOTHING about what he actually plans to build there. IT coule be all studio. It could be all College (that might be a great idea). It could also be ALL THEME PARK. Even if only 1/3 of the 400 acres is theme park, that's as large as DisneyLand. And you can't tell me that DisneyLand only needed a simple bridge widening to handle the effects it caused on the area. I don't think people are grasping that this very well could be much, much more than just another Lake Compounce. You are talking about drawing people in from other parts of Connecticut. They are probably thinking about drawing people in rom other parts of the CONTINENT. The raw resources that such a place would consume could be mind boggling. This cold potentially have a much huger impact than Foxwoods or Mohegan Sun ever did. It's not just a local town matter.

Until he can prove that his project will not eat up every resource it can, then you have to assume, with his reluctance to disclose any information, that it will. If this does prove to be a huge project, how is Preston and Norwich going to compenste the rest of the region for those resources. How are they going to help Mystic Seaport survive when their tourist traffic is drawn away? How are the smaller towns supposed to keep going when people are making minimum wage as grips and ride operators? Who is going to come up with the extra electricity and deal with all the traffic that is simply passing through the town?

You could do a 100 things with that property. A college, a tech park, a collection of museums and galleries, perhaps a natural recreation area. The Utopia project may not be the worst idea, but it very well could be. The lack of acknowledgement about what the potential factors are by the developer really, really shows that he has very little interest in disclosing the true nature of his project.

If anything this will boost the business of every other tourist attraction in the region. People might actually start to come up here for a week in the summer for vacation and check out everything. Maybe even people from Orlando and California. I mean where do they even go on vacation? I just don't think you are seeing the bigger picture.

[damus]

I just don't think you are seeing the bigger picture.

I think he is. The sprawl potential here is unfathomable. It's not like he's building the whole thing at one big site, his grand plan is to put large parcels of this stuff here and there throughout the area. How is a region supposed to plan for this without encountering the inevitable sprawl? If successful, this development will ruin the area, permanently.

Even if half the towns take on a new urbanist apporach to development, all you'd have to do is drive to the border of the town over and you'll see warwick or manchester style sprawl. Between the register of historic places and people's general unwillingness to let their neighborhoods become too "urban" i can't see anything but fairfield county type sprawl in some towns, like Preston, Lebanon, or North Stonington. In towns like Norwich, Montville, and Waterford there is the lethal combination of open space and willingness to build sprawling medium density residential and big box retailers. Traffic will be terrible.

A project this big shouldn't be leaving anywhere near this many questions unaswered. There's a serious problem with your state government if they aren't asking the questions that need to be asked here.

The property was handed over to Preston in January. It's up to a bunch of well intentioned, but unqualified town officials, and townspeople. The biggest problem here, in my opinion, is the media.

[runawayjim]

If anything this will boost the business of every other tourist attraction in the region. People might actually start to come up here for a week in the summer for vacation and check out everything. Maybe even people from Orlando and California. I mean where do they even go on vacation? I just don't think you are seeing the bigger picture.

the bigger picture is still overshadowed by the secrecy of the developers. if they say they won't need to change much to the existing road infrastructure, they're in for a big surprise. that bridge can't handle the traffic this would draw, they covered that. but ROUTE 12 CAN CERTAINLY NOT HANDLE THAT MUCH TRAFFIC. the city of norwich can't handle the traffic. and let's not even get into 95... 395 probably can because it's the least traveled highway in the state (once you're more than 2 miles north of exit 79A).

california's a big state, i'm sure people vacation within the state. CT is not a tourist destination. it never will attract the tourists that FLA or CA attract. it currently probably gets far less tourists than RI (LI sound beaches just don't cut it, and i grew up on the sound), and let's not talk about MA and the cape and 6 flags.

the number of "tourists" being mentioned going to tha part of the state can not be anywhere near as high as you try to say. each visitor to the casino is not a tourist. in fact, the vast majority of them are from CT within an hour of the casinos (that rules out ffld and litchfield counties basically). if anything, i see this utopia being a blip between NY and the cape (sort of like what providence is to many people), maybe an extra night on the drive back to NY to enjoy the theme park and head to the sun for some slots. there's nothing in CT that a tourist from across the country could spend a week doing or would want to spend a week doing. the beaches certainly aren't worth spending a week at (unless they spend them at the RI beaches and drive to CT for a day at utopia). you have dreams of people spending a week and going to teh museums in hartford, visiting yale, going to mystic... it just doesn't happen that way. people don't want to do that. they want a week's worth of entertainment in one place, which is smaller than the state of CT.

and if this place is as big as disney world, the highways would just crumble. and you can say goodbye to all those small towns as they become major roadways to service this monstrosity.

there are too many questions that have yet to be answered for this project to get the go ahead from anyone... yet it seems like people are blind to that.