PROPOSED: Utopia Project

[Jerry2]

Once again, you speak for the entire state of CT. This subject is getting really tired. You're entitled to your opinion, but your answers as to why it would work are childish and a tad ridiculous. Damus is the only one that has anything really intelligent to say on this entire topic....and he lives in the immediate area. After reading the posts in the Htfd section about insurance companies looking at Simsbury and not Htfd for re-expansion, you can see the mentality of sprawl is just acceptable to CT and its state legislators. Wasn't the purpose of the HCC to attract re-investment to the city cores? Adrien's Landing? Front St.? You can't be an advocate for urban growth and support a large scale suburban disaster. It's hypocrisy to say the least. Don't give me BS about how state $$ will flow back into the cities. It hasn't happened in years and likely will not happen in the near future. ( esp. if this thing gets built there) Ct legislators don't give a rats ass about their decaying crumbling cities. All the re-investment and glitzy proposals don't mean $hyt if you don't build upon what infrasture you already have. How can you even justify high-speed rail if the population and demographics have no central core. CT rounds out the top 5 in population loss and will continue to do so while it encourages and continues to portray its image as one big Pottery Barn suburb.

While business objectives do push for more ex-urban "convenience", I'm very proud to say that I live in a state that is trying to change that.

www.projo.com/ri/westgreenwich/content/?ln

We encourage density and we're trying hard to get people back to the urban cores and protect our rural western borders. (which are threatened by this shytty proposal) Providence has seen a net population gain of 26K since 1980. Every CT city has experinced nothing but loss. Even though I disagree with a lot of people on this board, I'm very glad to have so many people that are interested in the same stuff as me. Actually, I'm quite shocked. That's why I'm equally shocked at the lack of people in CT forums and the blase attitude from the ones that do post here. You would think that with every failed urban revitalization that Htfd has had in the last 3 decades, they would get the big picture...esp. with the momentum in your favor. Please don't talk about the fact that P.Diddy or 50cent or Martha Stewart live in Greenwich. Nobody cares. It still won't take away the fact that Htfd and most importantly the region will suufer if this breaks ground.

[HartfordTycoon]

Once again, you speak for the entire state of CT. This subject is getting really tired. You're entitled to your opinion, but your answers as to why it would work are childish and a tad ridiculous. Damus is the only one that has anything really intelligent to say on this entire topic....and he lives in the immediate area. After reading the posts in the Htfd section about insurance companies looking at Simsbury and not Htfd for re-expansion, you can see the mentality of sprawl is just acceptable to CT and its state legislators. Wasn't the purpose of the HCC to attract re-investment to the city cores? Adrien's Landing? Front St.? You can't be an advocate for urban growth and support a large scale suburban disaster. It's hypocrisy to say the least. Don't give me BS about how state $$ will flow back into the cities. It hasn't happened in years and likely will not happen in the near future. ( esp. if this thing gets built there) Ct legislators don't give a rats ass about their decaying crumbling cities. All the re-investment and glitzy proposals don't mean $hyt if you don't build upon what infrasture you already have. How can you even justify high-speed rail if the population and demographics have no central core. CT rounds out the top 5 in population loss and will continue to do so while it encourages and continues to portray its image as one big Pottery Barn suburb.

While business objectives do push for more ex-urban "convenience", I'm very proud to say that I live in a state that is trying to change that.

www.projo.com/ri/westgreenwich/content/?ln

We encourage density and we're trying hard to get people back to the urban cores and protect our rural western borders. (which are threatened by this shytty proposal) Providence has seen a net population gain of 26K since 1980. Every CT city has experinced nothing but loss. Even though I disagree with a lot of people on this board, I'm very glad to have so many people that are interested in the same stuff as me. Actually, I'm quite shocked. That's why I'm equally shocked at the lack of people in CT forums and the blase attitude from the ones that do post here. You would think that with every failed urban revitalization that Htfd has had in the last 3 decades, they would get the big picture...esp. with the momentum in your favor. Please don't talk about the fact that P.Diddy or 50cent or Martha Stewart live in Greenwich. Nobody cares. It still won't take away the fact that Htfd and most importantly the region will suufer if this breaks ground.

You live in a state the size of Hartford+Middlesex County Not comparable to CT. We have many regions with different strengths and those are starting to naturally emerge and differentiate our seperate regions. New Haven has Bio Meds, Hartford has Insurance, SE CT has tourism and defense. That's how it's gonna play out in CT like it or not. You can think that my views are childish, however I did not start the name calling and personal attacks and will not stoop to such a level. You know my reasons for supporting it, they are the same reasons why this project has advocates and financial backers. I guess I'm done.

Why can't we agree to disagree without my opinion having to be childish? So Bear Stein has childish analysts who support a childish project in childish location. I guess that's how they have built their company on reputation.

[runawayjim]

First Jim, let's clear up the misconception that there is some vast untapped rural area North of Hartford. There is no such area. There are parts of Bloomfield and Windsor that are sparsly populated but it doesn't make business sense to build this there. Even if only 25% of the patrons are gamblers, that is 25% we will not have access to directly in Hartford. As I have stated many (many, many, many, many) times, I think the viability is directly tied to their chosen location in an up-and-coming tourist area. I can tell you this, if I had my heart set on building a TOURIST ATTRACTION across the river from and in view of Mohegan Sun or the woods in Bloomfield I would be crazy and a damn fool to chose Bloomfield. It doesn't even begin to make sense. Also does it even make sense to destroy what natural areas we have left in mostly urban Greater Hartford, New Haven or Fairfield Co. when there is an industrial eyesore that is better suited in Preston?

Second, I don't spend all that much time there. If they get something down there worth me going to I may be down there more. Many people in CT probably feel that way. There will need to be road improvements and infrastructure improvements for sure. OK, let's get them done. Why would a private invester have to foot the bill for everything such as road improvements and such. Why if ING want's to move to East Hartford or Windsor, the state will assist them but someone who wants to spend $1.6 Billion in Private funds is getting a hassle? That's why people don't want to do business here it's a hassle. There are towns that would kill for this, where this process would have been wrapped up in less than a month. Utopia is not doing us favor per se by trying to come to CT, but it could end up being very mutually beneficial.

Third, Joe has been paying out of pocket so far supposedly. Bear Stein the NYC Brokerage House is said to be financing the actual projects and remain very comitted in spite of the controversy.

i've driven north on 91 through springfield... there's not much between hartford and windsor locks and not much north of there until you get to springfield. and the only reason there's stuff around windsor locks is because of the airport. i've been in those towns, i don't even know if i'd classify many of them as suburban.

it makes a lot more sense to build up in a more populated area than to sprawl out in a not-so-populated area, which is exactly what this project will do. preston isn't totally industrial, it's very much urban. i suggest you take a ride down there and drive around. outside of norwich and waterford, it's pretty rural, mostly wooded.

the infrastructure work in that part of the state isn't really needed except for 95 and a relocation of exit 76. other than that, 395 never gets backed up, and neither do 2A or 12 by mohegan sun. there's no need for the state up upgrade something that doesn't need it and will not need it within the next 10-15 years. those roads aren't even near capacity. if this goes through, those roads will be at or exceed capacity most likely and need an upgrade. so in this case, the private investor should foot the bill for the infrastructure upgrades in my opinion, especially if they want things done their way.

ING going to areas right around hartford is different because it was not extremely changing the local community and quality of life. this would be a big change in the quality of life for the current residents of that area, and not for the better.

[HartfordTycoon]

i've driven north on 91 through springfield... there's not much between hartford and windsor locks and not much north of there until you get to springfield. and the only reason there's stuff around windsor locks is because of the airport. i've been in those towns, i don't even know if i'd classify many of them as suburban.

it makes a lot more sense to build up in a more populated area than to sprawl out in a not-so-populated area, which is exactly what this project will do. preston isn't totally industrial, it's very much urban. i suggest you take a ride down there and drive around. outside of norwich and waterford, it's pretty rural, mostly wooded.

the infrastructure work in that part of the state isn't really needed except for 95 and a relocation of exit 76. other than that, 395 never gets backed up, and neither do 2A or 12 by mohegan sun. there's no need for the state up upgrade something that doesn't need it and will not need it within the next 10-15 years. those roads aren't even near capacity. if this goes through, those roads will be at or exceed capacity most likely and need an upgrade. so in this case, the private investor should foot the bill for the infrastructure upgrades in my opinion, especially if they want things done their way.

ING going to areas right around hartford is different because it was not extremely changing the local community and quality of life. this would be a big change in the quality of life for the current residents of that area, and not for the better.

I'm not gonna nitpick about the towns north of Hartford in which I have infinitely more experience in than you do. In greater Hartford suburban neighborhoods are hidden from the Highway. There are very urban areas in Windsor and Bloomfield and most of both towns are what I would call suburban. Windsor Locks has rural tabacco barn areas. Those are still actively in use. Let's leave them alone. There are pretty much all neighborhoods in that corridor, trust me. I know the street way from Hartford to Springfield. To build this anywhere near Hartford you would have to clear a large forest. You do not have to do that at the hospital site. Really I am getting tired of this. I post to keep this topic balanced, since the other supporters are not actively posting on this topic at this time. But right now, I'm just gonna excuse myself and let this turn into a Utopia bash-fest. Enjoy. Have fun. Don't do anything I would do.

[runawayjim]

I'm not gonna nitpick about the towns north of Hartford in which I have infinately more experience in than you do. In greater Hartford suburban neighborhoods are hidden from the Highway. There are very urban areas in Windsor and Bloomfield and most of both towns are what I would call suburban. Windsor Locks has rural tabacco barn areas. Those are still actively in use. Let's leave them alone. There are pretty much all neighborhoods in that corridor, trust me. I know the street way from Hartford to Springfield. To build this anywhere near Hartford you would have to clear a large forest. You do not have to do that at the hospital site. Really I am getting tired of this. I post to keep this topic balanced, since the other supporters are not actively posting on this topic at this time. But right now, I'm just gonna excuse myself and let this turn into a Utopia bash-fest. Enjoy. Have fun. Don't do anything I would do.

all i have to say is visit this so-called cleared land old hospital site. until you've been there, you won't see what a disaster a project of this magnitude will cause... and that's not even getting into the spreading out this guy wants to do building south to waterford and then east to the RI border. north stonington is very rural, i bet he'll be tearing down forests there...

wouldn't a performing arts school be much better suited for a major city than somewhere in the middle of nowhere like preston?

[HartfordTycoon]

all i have to say is visit this so-called cleared land old hospital site. until you've been there, you won't see what a disaster a project of this magnitude will cause... and that's not even getting into the spreading out this guy wants to do building south to waterford and then east to the RI border. north stonington is very rural, i bet he'll be tearing down forests there...

wouldn't a performing arts school be much better suited for a major city than somewhere in the middle of nowhere like preston?

Look, nothing I say seems to make any sense or have any valid points. I don't know.

[SOCOM]

For the guys from RI - stick to SE CT and RI topics. You have misrepresented the Hartford region with wrong "facts" and assumptions on so many occasions that I've lost count.

I'm skeptical of Utopia as well, but please stick to what you know and to what's relevant to this conversation. Maybe I'll come back alter and debunk the ignornant posts regarding Hartford, and our state as a whole, but right now I don't have the time nor do I think it'll add anything productive to this whiny argument.

[HartfordTycoon]

Truthfully I think everything has been said that can be said for right now. I have nothing else to offer. I feel that all of my opinions in favor of Utopia are valid and there are many who agree with me. I have also conceded valid points made from the opposition. Personally, I would like to continue having a civil debate on this, but some people have unfortunately made that impossible.

[Jerry2]

For the guys from RI - stick to SE CT and RI topics. You have misrepresented the Hartford region with wrong "facts" and assumptions on so many occasions that I've lost count.

I'm skeptical of Utopia as well, but please stick to what you know and to what's relevant to this conversation. Maybe I'll come back alter and debunk the ignornant posts regarding Hartford, and our state as a whole, but right now I don't have the time nor do I think it'll add anything productive to this whiny argument.

What "wrong fact" are you talking about? Look...praise and glory is great, but reality is another thing. This project affects RI moreso than Htfd but it does greatly affect a big portion of CT. It's on our border. Last time I checked, we were in this forum. I merely commented on the blase attitude @ the project from other people, most notably Ct posters.( exception Damus) You don't really have anything interesting to add either. That was my point. I find it strange that everyone seems to be nodding right along. For the record, I lived in Springfield, E. Hartford, and Waterbury. Well, I don't have the patience either to debate this nor do I have anything else enlightening to say about this project....I'm done...Let's wait and see what happens

[beerbeer]

Currently Providence is a suburb of Boston but the maginitude of Utopia could make Providence a suburb of New London. I can understand why RI is very skeptical of this project. You would get many of the problems and little of the advantages.

[SOCOM]

What "wrong fact" are you talking about? Look...praise and glory is great, but reality is another thing. This project affects RI moreso than Htfd but it does greatly affect a big portion of CT. It's on our border. Last time I checked, we were in this forum. I merely commented on the blase attitude @ the project from other people, most notably Ct posters.( exception Damus) You don't really have anything interesting to add either. That was my point. I find it strange that everyone seems to be nodding right along. For the record, I lived in Springfield, E. Hartford, and Waterbury. Well, I don't have the patience either to debate this nor do I have anything else enlightening to say about this project....I'm done...Let's wait and see what happens

Ok hold the phone there buddy. I have no problems whatsoever with your concerns for this project, and I think you have every right to voice your opinion about it and it's effects. My point was (as it clearly stated) that you are posting pointless, incorrect assumptions about the Hartford area (and CT). For example:

"you can see the mentality of sprawl is just acceptable to CT and its state legislators"

False. It used to be acceptable. It still runs rampant (just as it does in any other state) but legislators and citizens have made efforts to stem this problem recently. Furthermore, you do realize your state has a horrible sprawl problem, right? Stones...glass house?

"Wasn't the purpose of the HCC to attract re-investment to the city cores? Adrien's Landing? Front St.?"

I'm not exactly sure what your point is here, but none of these projects are completed. How are we supposed to judge the outcome when it's not even finished!?

"CT rounds out the top 5 in population loss and will continue to do so..."

Source? Time period? Got Anything? Hint: CT isn't losing population.

"Every CT city has experinced nothing but [population] loss."

False. Stamford has steadily gained population and I believe Waterbury has gained as well. Hartford has recently started to gain population back as well.

Stick to what you know - this way you don't lose credibilty in the process.

[HartfordTycoon]

Ok hold the phone there buddy. I have no problems whatsoever with your concerns for this project, and I think you have every right to voice your opinion about it and it's effects. My point was (as it clearly stated) that you are posting pointless, incorrect assumptions about the Hartford area (and CT). For example:

"you can see the mentality of sprawl is just acceptable to CT and its state legislators"

False. It used to be acceptable. It still runs rampant (just as it does in any other state) but legislators and citizens have made efforts to stem this problem recently. Furthermore, you do realize your state has a horrible sprawl problem, right? Stones...glass house?

"Wasn't the purpose of the HCC to attract re-investment to the city cores? Adrien's Landing? Front St.?"

I'm not exactly sure what your point is here, but none of these projects are completed. How are we supposed to judge the outcome when it's not even finished!?

"CT rounds out the top 5 in population loss and will continue to do so..."

Source? Time period? Got Anything? Hint: CT isn't losing population.

"Every CT city has experinced nothing but [population] loss."

False. Stamford has steadily gained population and I believe Waterbury has gained as well. Hartford has recently started to gain population back as well.

Stick to what you know - this way you don't lose credibilty in the process.

CT gained 3.6% from 1990 to 2000 and another 2.9% from 2000 to 2004.

[SOCOM]

CT gained 3.6% from 1990 to 2000 and another 2.9% from 2000 to 2004.

Exactly. If someone is willing to spout off false information with no basis for their argument, I find it hard to hold these same people in high regard. Furthermore, I could care less what someone thinks if they can't get the most simplest of facts correct. Just a "fact" of life.

[runawayjim]

Currently Providence is a suburb of Boston but the maginitude of Utopia could make Providence a suburb of New London. I can understand why RI is very skeptical of this project. You would get many of the problems and little of the advantages.

let's not get into a vs. fight, but providence is hardly a suburb of boston and utopia will not even come close to making providence a suburb of new london, which is hardly a destination city, nor do i see it becoming one, even if utopia is built.

i lived in CT for most of my life. i spend quite a bit of time in or driving through SE CT. i think i can speak facts about CT and SE CT. i don't know quite as much about the hartford area, but i went to uconn and spent a bit of time in and around hartford as well, along with travelling through that area and visiting friends and family in that area.

even with his unchecked "facts" (most of which i do agree are wrong), jerry raised one very important point. the people who are on this site generally are in favor of urbanization, except when it comes to this particular project which plans to do the exact opposite. this project has hundreds of important questions still unanswered, and it sounds like they won't be answered until the relatively uneducated town of preston votes on it. it has serious potential to cause serious problems of sprawl and serious quality of life issues for a majority of the people who currently live in that part of the state. i, personally, don't care if the project will bring in thousands of new young people to populate this area. urbanizing a relatively rural area is not a good idea. it'll bring people in to tear down trees and build sprawling condos and cluster housing. and soon enough, SE CT, a fairly rural part of CT, turns into fairfield county, the worst sprawl in the state.

and the biggest thing i can get out of all this is that part of the reason you are all so in favor of this is that it's not happening in your backyard and won't affect your quality of life. people live in preston because they want the rural atmosphere and the quiet and solitude that it offers. this project takes all that and tosses it out with yesterday's dirty diapers. do you not see that?

and the one other thing i am really confused about is how you see SE CT as a resort tourist destination. what is there now besides the casinos which attract far fewer tourists than you want to believe. the numbers that the casinos give mean nothing. again, most of the people who visit them live within an hour. it's not currently a major destination. and other than them, there's nothing else in that part of the state that is a destination with the exception of mystic, which gets mostly day trippers from other parts of CT and RI.

[SOCOM]

let's not get into a vs. fight, but providence is hardly a suburb of boston and utopia will not even come close to making providence a suburb of new london, which is hardly a destination city, nor do i see it becoming one, even if utopia is built.

i lived in CT for most of my life. i spend quite a bit of time in or driving through SE CT. i think i can speak facts about CT and SE CT. i don't know quite as much about the hartford area, but i went to uconn and spent a bit of time in and around hartford as well, along with travelling through that area and visiting friends and family in that area.

even with his unchecked "facts" (most of which i do agree are wrong), jerry raised one very important point. the people who are on this site generally are in favor of urbanization, except when it comes to this particular project which plans to do the exact opposite. this project has hundreds of important questions still unanswered, and it sounds like they won't be answered until the relatively uneducated town of preston votes on it.

Somehow I got lumped into a group that is blindly supporting this development. I actually agree with the anti-Utopia group as it stands right now (unless we are given far more details I see no reason to support this), what I had issues with is the way in which some of you attacked the proponents of the project and spewed out false information.

[HartfordTycoon]

let's not get into a vs. fight, but providence is hardly a suburb of boston and utopia will not even come close to making providence a suburb of new london, which is hardly a destination city, nor do i see it becoming one, even if utopia is built.

i lived in CT for most of my life. i spend quite a bit of time in or driving through SE CT. i think i can speak facts about CT and SE CT. i don't know quite as much about the hartford area, but i went to uconn and spent a bit of time in and around hartford as well, along with travelling through that area and visiting friends and family in that area.

even with his unchecked "facts" (most of which i do agree are wrong), jerry raised one very important point. the people who are on this site generally are in favor of urbanization, except when it comes to this particular project which plans to do the exact opposite. this project has hundreds of important questions still unanswered, and it sounds like they won't be answered until the relatively uneducated town of preston votes on it. it has serious potential to cause serious problems of sprawl and serious quality of life issues for a majority of the people who currently live in that part of the state. i, personally, don't care if the project will bring in thousands of new young people to populate this area. urbanizing a relatively rural area is not a good idea. it'll bring people in to tear down trees and build sprawling condos and cluster housing. and soon enough, SE CT, a fairly rural part of CT, turns into fairfield county, the worst sprawl in the state.

and the biggest thing i can get out of all this is that part of the reason you are all so in favor of this is that it's not happening in your backyard and won't affect your quality of life. people live in preston because they want the rural atmosphere and the quiet and solitude that it offers. this project takes all that and tosses it out with yesterday's dirty diapers. do you not see that?

and the one other thing i am really confused about is how you see SE CT as a resort tourist destination. what is there now besides the casinos which attract far fewer tourists than you want to believe. the numbers that the casinos give mean nothing. again, most of the people who visit them live within an hour. it's not currently a major destination. and other than them, there's nothing else in that part of the state that is a destination with the exception of mystic, which gets mostly day trippers from other parts of CT and RI.

I personally do not see it becoming a true destination unless Utopia happens. That's my reason for wanting it period. You're right I don't live there, but I already live in an urban area that I would like to see get more dense and urban. I know if Hartford thrives, traffic will increase and things may get less convenient sometimes but I still want Hartford to thrive. Like I said I understand that this is a big change, but I give the residents of Preston enough credit to decide. I think they grasp the scope of this and want a change. How do you know that people in that part of the state don't want it to become more urban? I'm sure many don't but I would have to assume there are those who do. They deserve a voice too. I still say if the State and the Towns put restrictions in place to protect themselves thy can mitigate the effects. They can steer massive development towards Norwich (I know the business owners and politicians want this to happen). That's great news for a dead city. I WISH Greater Hartford had a market for this, I just don't see it. Preston is perfect for Utopia (the concept). I'm sticking to that belief.

[drc72]

i've driven north on 91 through springfield... there's not much between hartford and windsor locks and not much north of there until you get to springfield. and the only reason there's stuff around windsor locks is because of the airport. i've been in those towns, i don't even know if i'd classify many of them as suburban.

What? Hartford county alone is more industrialised than the whole state of RI. I been out to those areas many times and theres plenty there industry wise. A lot of those areas do have a suburban feel north of Hartford, but there's also a lot of industry as well. And I don't believe the airport is the only reason they are doing business there. Dude where are you getting your info? Honestly I'm laughing as I read your posts. You need to get off your RI superiority complex. Calling HartfordTycoon childish? Please! Your the one insulting him.

[runawayjim]

Somehow I got lumped into a group that is blindly supporting this development. I actually agree with the anti-Utopia group as it stands right now (unless we are given far more details I see no reason to support this), what I had issues with is the way in which some of you attacked the proponents of the project and spewed out false information.

my point was that not all of us rhode islanders attacked anyone with false info.

i think in the past day we've exhausted all possible arguments for and against the project and unless they give any new information (which they really need to do, and it shouldn't be on the eve of the voting), i don't think any of our opinions will change.

[runawayjim]

What? Hartford county alone is more industrialised than the whole state of RI. I been out to those areas many times and theres plenty there industry wise. A lot of those areas do have a suburban feel north of Hartford, but there's also a lot of industry as well. And I don't believe the airport is the only reason they are doing business there. Dude where are you getting your info? Honestly I'm laughing as I read your posts. You need to get off your RI superiority complex. Calling HartfordTycoon childish? Please! Your the one insulting him.

you're confusing some of my posts with another rhode islander.

hartford county is very industrialized, i know this. but it also has a lot of suburban and relatively rural areas. industry does not make an area urban, density does. once you leave hartford to the north, the density greatly decreases. most of hartford county's density exists east and south of the city, there's not as much north and west.

but next time you decide to insult me, check the actual posters... i may not be in favor of this project, and i may believe that it would be better suited from an urbanization/quality of life/sprawl standpoint in the hartford area, but at no point in time did i call anyone childish.

[runawayjim]

How do you know that people in that part of the state don't want it to become more urban? I'm sure many don't but I would have to assume there are those who do. They deserve a voice too. I still say if the State and the Towns put restrictions in place to protect themselves thy can mitigate the effects. They can steer massive development towards Norwich (I know the business owners and politicians want this to happen).

if they wanted to live in a more urban area, they would not have chosen preston, they would have chosen new london or norwich for their home. i wanted to live in an urban area, which is why i'm not living in an apartment outside of the city. i think it's pretty safe to say that these people don't want to live in an urban area. preston isn't even remotely urbanized when compared to somewhere like waterford or niantic or groton. much of that part of the state is barely even suburbanized (if that's even a word).

if, and only if, 90% of the new development happens in norwich and new london, and only those places, the project wouldn't be quite as bad. but outside those cities, there should be very little development. and again, this still doesn't address the infrastructure concerns, especially on rt 12, which has no room for expansion without taking people's homes.

[HartfordTycoon]

if they wanted to live in a more urban area, they would not have chosen preston, they would have chosen new london or norwich for their home. i wanted to live in an urban area, which is why i'm not living in an apartment outside of the city. i think it's pretty safe to say that these people don't want to live in an urban area. preston isn't even remotely urbanized when compared to somewhere like waterford or niantic or groton. much of that part of the state is barely even suburbanized (if that's even a word).

if, and only if, 90% of the new development happens in norwich and new london, and only those places, the project wouldn't be quite as bad. but outside those cities, there should be very little development. and again, this still doesn't address the infrastructure concerns, especially on rt 12, which has no room for expansion without taking people's homes.

You make it sound like people don't just stay places because it's where they are from. I would like Hartford to change but I stay here and hope it will. I could live anywhere too.

[runawayjim]

You make it sound like people don't just stay places because it's where they are from. I would like Hartford to change but I stay here and hope it will. I could live anywhere too.

but to stay in a relatively rural town while wanting to live in an urban area is completely different. it'd be like you saying you want hartford to have more farms.

seriously, if you get a chance this weekend (although probably not the best weekend because of the rain), take a drive down rt 2. get off at the rt 12 exit in norwich and follow 12 a couple miles south of rt 2A (the mohegan bridge). then tell me that the area is industrial and suburban (once you get to the hospital site the houses are much more sparse) and tell me if you think 12 can handle the increase in traffic. i have friends who used to live right on rt 12 half a mile north of the hospital site (in norwich) and about a mile south of it (in gales ferry) (same people, they moved from an apartment to a rented house when another friend got a job in the area). i used to be there all the time. it just won't be able to handle the traffic.

[HartfordTycoon]

but to stay in a relatively rural town while wanting to live in an urban area is completely different. it'd be like you saying you want hartford to have more farms.

seriously, if you get a chance this weekend (although probably not the best weekend because of the rain), take a drive down rt 2. get off at the rt 12 exit in norwich and follow 12 a couple miles south of rt 2A (the mohegan bridge). then tell me that the area is industrial and suburban (once you get to the hospital site the houses are much more sparse) and tell me if you think 12 can handle the increase in traffic. i have friends who used to live right on rt 12 half a mile north of the hospital site (in norwich) and about a mile south of it (in gales ferry) (same people, they moved from an apartment to a rented house when another friend got a job in the area). i used to be there all the time. it just won't be able to handle the traffic.

I honestly take your word that I need to do that. Your opinion is formed from first hand knowledge. I do respect that. I'll try to get down there sometime soon and have a look.

[drc72]

you're confusing some of my posts with another rhode islander.

hartford county is very industrialized, i know this. but it also has a lot of suburban and relatively rural areas. industry does not make an area urban, density does. once you leave hartford to the north, the density greatly decreases. most of hartford county's density exists east and south of the city, there's not as much north and west.

but next time you decide to insult me, check the actual posters... i may not be in favor of this project, and i may believe that it would be better suited from an urbanization/quality of life/sprawl standpoint in the hartford area, but at no point in time did i call anyone childish.

I never insulted you, I just disagree with you.

[damus]

but to stay in a relatively rural town while wanting to live in an urban area is completely different. it'd be like you saying you want hartford to have more farms.

seriously, if you get a chance this weekend (although probably not the best weekend because of the rain), take a drive down rt 2. get off at the rt 12 exit in norwich and follow 12 a couple miles south of rt 2A (the mohegan bridge). then tell me that the area is industrial and suburban (once you get to the hospital site the houses are much more sparse) and tell me if you think 12 can handle the increase in traffic. i have friends who used to live right on rt 12 half a mile north of the hospital site (in norwich) and about a mile south of it (in gales ferry) (same people, they moved from an apartment to a rented house when another friend got a job in the area). i used to be there all the time. it just won't be able to handle the traffic.

Sorry to nitpick, but route 2 abruptly ends around Backus Hospital in Norwich. There is no rt 12 exit, only a rt 12 "junction" downtown. You'd wanna turn right onto the viaduct in Norwich and follow it through the Laurel Hill neighborhood. The Norwich side would be very difficult to expand. Into Ledyard it is feasible, but not desirable.

I received some third hand knowledge about the rt 12 area today. I had made a comment about some guy whose property was adjacent to the hospital property having a "preston residents for utopia sign" saying he was probably already offered money for it from Joe G. I heard that a lot of people this person knows on rt 12 have been approached by Utopia already and they indicated that Utopia will want to buy their property when the time is right. This is all hearsay so for all I know the people approaching the Laurel Hill and Poquetoneck (preston) residents are just speculative investors, but I would not be surprised at all if the Utopia people were already poking around in those areas.