Fifth Third Park | $425 million MiLB Stadium + Mixed-Use Development

[spartanburgh]

I guess they were able to aquire the needed property from CSX. The excavators were clearing the trees

on that property today in the rain. 

[Spartan]

So is the entire hospitality tax being consumed by this project and Memorial auditorium? I'm all for these projects, but feels like committing all of our hospitality tax resources for the next generation is not the most fiscally responsible path.

[westsider28]

17 hours ago, Spartan said:

So is the entire hospitality tax being consumed by this project and Memorial auditorium? I'm all for these projects, but feels like committing all of our hospitality tax resources for the next generation is not the most fiscally responsible path.

So there are two separate pots (HJ article with the info)- this action applies to the 3% local accommodations tax. Historically, one-third of those revenues have gone to Spartanburg Memorial Auditorium and two-thirds toward paying off two former bond issues from the late 1990s. (not sure what those were, but probably the renovations to SMA that added the expanded lobby and backstage space). Those bond issues have since been retired, and about $2.8 million in non-designated uses has accumulated in that fund (to be used for SMA renovations in the near future).

There is a separate statewide 2% accommodations tax, and those revenues the county receives each year are directed to local organizations that apply for funds. That tax and those funds are not affected by the change.

So it seems that the specific fund being used was only ever used for SMA anyway, so this doesn't change much.  I presume we wouldn't be able to fund any other large capital projects from this pot during the term of the stadium reimbursement period, but I don't foresee any scenario where we'd need them.  (Well, unless that rumored convention center is still being planned...)

[gman430]

 

Edited August 15, 2023 by gman430

[westsider28]

Edit: LOL, @gman430 beat me to it.

Saw some renderings of this project on Facebook.  They appear to be from a OneSpartanburg presentation.  This development is the "Project Core" that was mentioned so much in City Council executive sessions.

Anyway, it looks great.  Lots of brick.  The baseball stadium is in the interior (next to the RR tracks, closer to Henry) surrounded by development.  Residential is 6-stories (w/basement retail facing plaza), 275-units, 320k SF, along Daniel Morgan closer to Henry.  Office is 5-stories, 120k SF, next to the RR tracks closer to W Main.  Event center is 25k SF, along Daniel Morgan closer to the AC Hotel.  Also a restaurant space between the event center and apartments.  50-75k retail space total.  Lots of outdoor plaza space.  There's an interior street between the event center and AC Hotel to access the office building.

Not sure where parking is, possibly a deck on the current AC Hotel parking lot?  It looks like there's parking under the apartment building, but not sure if that's residents-only or public.  There also looks to be a smaller building between the office building and W Main (possibly more retail/restaurant).  Not sure what Henry Street looks like behind the grandstands (is there a stadium entrance?)  Here's a conceptual site plan (retail/restaurant, office, apartments, plaza) based on the renderings (AC Hotel parking lot is unknown):

Edit 2 - Since the renderings are out there now:

Edited August 15, 2023 by westsider28

[gman430]

 Sorry man. I’ve actually had the pdf file (24 pages long) for this project for a while now but didn’t get permission to release it until today. Hopefully I did a good job of hiding that fact. Lol. I only posted the good stuff. I was really hoping for at least one tall building 15+ stories tall due to the site elevation and to help expand the skyline. Besides that though, I love it. The layout and architecture look awesome. Expect a news story very soon from the Post & Courier. Here is the funding layout:

Edited August 15, 2023 by gman430

[gman430]

Here is the entire pdf file: 

Edited August 15, 2023 by gman430

[NotNotSanti]

SOLID! Helllllllo downtown expansion!

[NotNotSanti]

Kind of an aside, but...

20,000+ students are we only have a couple of pizza joints?! 

It's always amazed me how little we feel like a college town with our many institutions of higher learning. Now, that might be a good thing, but I guess that might be because colleges were bubbles for a long time with not much to do outside...? When I went to Wofford, walking to downtown would not have been advisable. Now I see more and more of that happening. Brings a nice level of vibrancy!

[roads-scholar]

1 hour ago, NotNotSanti said:

Kind of an aside, but...

20,000+ students are we only have a couple of pizza joints?! 

It's always amazed me how little we feel like a college town with our many institutions of higher learning. Now, that might be a good thing, but I guess that might be because colleges were bubbles for a long time with not much to do outside...? When I went to Wofford, walking to downtown would not have been advisable. Now I see more and more of that happening. Brings a nice level of vibrancy!

When I attended Wofford NOBODY went downtown.  Back then there was NuWay Lounge.  NO pizza.   

Edited August 15, 2023 by roads-scholar

[westsider28]

1 hour ago, NotNotSanti said:

Kind of an aside, but...

20,000+ students are we only have a couple of pizza joints?! 

It's always amazed me how little we feel like a college town with our many institutions of higher learning. Now, that might be a good thing, but I guess that might be because colleges were bubbles for a long time with not much to do outside...? When I went to Wofford, walking to downtown would not have been advisable. Now I see more and more of that happening. Brings a nice level of vibrancy!

We hit "peak-pizza" several years ago, but then a couple of places closed (Wild Ace, Mellow Mushroom, Brickhouse).  Now Mexican seems to be the top cuisine.  Also BBQ was non-existent a few years back, and now we have 3 in the DT area.

As for feeling like a college town or not: unfortunately Wofford and Converse aren't really large enough to give that "feel" even if most students decide to frequent downtown.  And USC Upstate (much larger) is soooo far away and is a commuter school anyway.  To get a true college-town feel, you really need a large, preferably public, residential college in-town.

Back on-topic: it will be interesting to see how the office building here potentially affects the one on Liberty Street.  This one is 120k SF, which is the same size as RedSail (which, by the way, has 40k SF available), versus 84k SF for the Liberty office building.  I hope we have enough tenants to go around, so that the Liberty building still happens.

Edited August 15, 2023 by westsider28

[gman430]

News story on the renderings: 

https://www.wspa.com/news/local-news/first-renderings-of-spartanburg-minor-league-baseball-stadium-released/?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=socialflow&fbclid=IwAR3cXmOv-T_TqOMFf7ECA6w00D4N4b0_eW9NT2MBg-rxGAxnB-_4IDGK_JY_aem_AQ8xDGTT-KIaviHEUHxeXKF5EnEc-TTJXzYjCuN-O4dyRispFQsmY7D3Xv-_afqmZV4&mibextid=Zxz2cZ

Edited August 17, 2023 by gman430

[GvilleSC]

This is a formidable development for downtown. I hope they're prepared to fully see this through. The location and orientation in proximity to current activity centers feels right and should leave ample room for solid spin-off development/infill. 

[NotNotSanti]

I'd say it has vibes from what was envisioned in the Comprehensive Plan, which was love at first sight for me. Obviously, no historic buildings, but that center plaza area with trees and retail/restaurants? Perfection!

[westsider28]

Post & Courier story on the development (featuring the renderings).  The renderings are from a SC House Ways & Means presentation.  The article talks about the shown budget break-down, but mentions that it's not yet set-in-stone.  The city hasn’t yet filed paperwork with the state to receive the $54 million in earmarked funds that have stacked up over the past three years.  Tentative plan for the locally sourced $41 million calls for using county accommodations taxes, city hospitality taxes, downtown district funds and revenues from the project to pay back city–issued debt.  Issuing a bond would require a council vote. The amount of the bond hasn’t been set in stone, nor has the $41 million local share projected to be split by the city and county.  How long the accommodation taxes would be allocated to the ballpark and how long they would be used to pay back debt service hasn’t been decided.  A final funding plan is still a couple months away, officials said.

IMO, stadium construction needs to start by the end of this year to have any chance of finishing by the 2025 season.  Then again, it's more important to get the funding and design situation right than the (somewhat arbitrary) timeline.

[gman430]

Construction is slated to start in October.

[westsider28]

4 hours ago, gman430 said:

Construction is slated to start in October.

I would be shocked if that happens.  For instance, September's DRB meeting has already been cancelled.  That means October would be the earliest their design could be considered, and it usually takes 2 meetings (i.e. 2 months) for preliminary then final approval (and that's assuming the design doesn't have any big issues).  And a potential City bond approval (for stadium funding) would take 2 readings at City Council, which would take a month at best (factor in the public notice buffer for a vote like that as well).

[distortedlogic]

Wow, nice looking development! This is going to really change the scope of DT. Spartanburg seems to do a good job of paying attention to strong architectural details with a lot of it's development; kudos to them.

[spartanburgh]

They can get a grading permit without a building permit to begin in Oct/Nov.  The site looks like it will take a lot of time just 

to get it ready for buildings. They have new roads, utilities, storm drainage etc. that can get underway fairly quickly.  

[hub-city]

Looking over the conceptual drawings, I see why the stadium only has 3500 seats.  It looks like you can watch a game free from the plaza, office building, or condos.  Do you think they would have some type of “cover” charge on game days?

[westsider28]

58 minutes ago, hub-city said:

Looking over the conceptual drawings, I see why the stadium only has 3500 seats.  It looks like you can watch a game free from the plaza, office building, or condos.  Do you think they would have some type of “cover” charge on game days?

If it's anything like Durham Bulls Athletic Park, the concourses in front of the buildings and possibly the whole plaza area will be controlled-access / ticket-holder-only on game days (and open to the public otherwise).  Like Durham, the Greenville Drive also have an office building and apartments overlooking the field.  It's a pretty common setup for urban ballparks in general, and it doesn't materially impact attendance.

3 hours ago, spartanburgh said:

They can get a grading permit without a building permit to begin in Oct/Nov.  The site looks like it will take a lot of time just 

to get it ready for buildings. They have new roads, utilities, storm drainage etc. that can get underway fairly quickly.  

Good point.  Speaking of permits: I wish the City would have them publicly accessible online like many other cities do...

[Spartan]

Any rumblings on a team name yet?

[westsider28]

Saw a notice in the paper about a Third Amendment to the VCC for the Spartan Grain site (DHEC listing).  This one seems to focus on the City-owned parcels (maintenance yard and former street ROWs) that the VCC says will be conveyed to the developer.  It talks about taking various soil samples, analyzing them, and monitoring the site (the usual VCC stuff).  Public comment period lasts until October 18.  Anyway, just another step forward in this long and complicated process.

[Historyguy]

The City Council meeting packet for Monday night has a draft development agreement for the properties involved in Project Core, between the City and JDA.  It's an even bigger parcel of land than we've been talking about on here.  It includes the land surrounded by West Main, Daniel Morgan, West Henry, and the railroad tracks, but also the HJ block - the block surrounded by West Main, Daniel Morgan, West Broad, and South Spring, and the city-owned properties at the corner of South Spring and West Broad - across from City Hall.  It also has some timelines.  

https://spartanburgsc.portal.civicclerk.com/event/157/files

The agreement discusses the financing in more detail, and it discusses construction of 3 parking garages with approximately 1,600 spaces.  

The agreement makes reference to a 150-room hotel, 2 multi-family housing structures with nearly 400 units, and 2 office buildings with a combined @200,000 square feet of space, with completion dates between 2026 and 2031.  The 5 private buildings - residential, hotel, and office, are actually over $300 million in developments.  That's on top of the stadium and garages and infrastructure.  

Some of the details are finally getting made public.  

Big news.  

[westsider28]

4 hours ago, Historyguy said:

The City Council meeting packet for Monday night has a draft development agreement for the properties involved in Project Core, between the City and JDA.  It's an even bigger parcel of land than we've been talking about on here.  It includes the land surrounded by West Main, Daniel Morgan, West Henry, and the railroad tracks, but also the HJ block - the block surrounded by West Main, Daniel Morgan, West Broad, and South Spring, and the city-owned properties at the corner of South Spring and West Broad - across from City Hall.  It also has some timelines.  

https://spartanburgsc.portal.civicclerk.com/event/157/files

The agreement discusses the financing in more detail, and it discusses construction of 3 parking garages with approximately 1,600 spaces.  

The agreement makes reference to a 150-room hotel, 2 multi-family housing structures with nearly 400 units, and 2 office buildings with a combined @200,000 square feet of space, with completion dates between 2026 and 2031.  The 5 private buildings - residential, hotel, and office, are actually over $300 million in developments.  That's on top of the stadium and garages and infrastructure.  

Some of the details are finally getting made public.  

Big news.  

The parking seems seriously excessive, but the development scope expanding otherwise is exciting!

Edited September 24, 2023 by westsider28