Fifth Third Park | $425 million MiLB Stadium + Mixed-Use Development

[Sparkleman]

The small piece of property down below the hotel and right before the RR tracks is a minor sticking point. It is owned by CSX and if anyone not named GDJ was involved they would not let it go and it would possibly sink the deal.

Fortunately GDJ is involved and owns the rest of the land so he'll get that piece of land but price tag will be steep.

Edited June 5, 2023 by Sparkleman

[Spartan]

On 6/2/2023 at 12:18 PM, westsider28 said:

I believe residential on top of a parking deck would require the deck to be cast-in-place (vs precast, which is what all our other decks are).  I find this highly unlikely, as cast-in-place is more expensive and takes longer to build.  It's typically only worth it if you're building a tower above (see Charlotte, ATL, etc).  I suspect the apartments are more likely to abut or wrap a deck, as that can be done with precast decks (see the ubiquitous "Texas-donut"-style, 5-over-1 apartments all over the country).

Herald-Journal has an article musing about team names.  The article mentions various historic names (Sluggers, Spinners, Peaches); wonders about Spartanburg vs Hub City vs Sparkle City; suggests possible animals (Woodcocks, Spaniels) or something music- or trail-related.  As I said with the Spartanburgers, I heavily favor "Spartanburg Peaches".  What do y'all think?

I feel like a deck wrap (which could include apts/amenity deck on top of the parking) seems most likely. The places in Charlotte where you have a pure podium style structure (building on top of parking structure) are almost all terrible designs and tend to be located in areas with very high land values (Uptown, South End).  

[gman430]

https://www.cityofspartanburg.org/CivicAlerts.aspx?AID=34

[westsider28]

Herald-Journal has an article about the process to come over the next few months before construction can begin.  It mentions the project will go before City and County Councils next (presumably for a development agreement / FILOT).  Then it will go before the DRB as soon as August.  The funding breakdown is still being worked on (state funds, hospitality tax, ticket revenue, private funds, etc). 

The article also mentions the potential for a rezoning of some parcels.  The whole site is currently D-T5, which allows a maximum by-right height of 6-stories (or 10-stories w/DRB approval).  If they're considering rezoning (likely to D-T6), that would suggest the intent for a building >10 stories.  Can't wait for more details.

[spartanburgh]

I would hope that a tall building would be built on the City Hall site, not on the 16 acres. It would not add much to the sky line

if a 10-12 story building is built in a hole, but on the high elevation site of City Hall, it could have a huge impact. 

[gman430]

Going off the article, it still seems like there are still too many “ifs” regarding this project especially when it comes to the financing. They better get moving before the Fed decides to raise interest rates even more. And notice there are still no renderings or site plans. I hate to take the glass half empty approach but I won’t believe this project is happening until I see dirt actually moving on site. 

[westsider28]

9 hours ago, gman430 said:

Going off the article, it still seems like there are still too many “ifs” regarding this project especially when it comes to the financing. They better get moving before the Fed decides to raise interest rates even more. And notice there are still no renderings or site plans. I hate to take the glass half empty approach but I won’t believe this project is happening until I see dirt actually moving on site. 

They said it could go before the DRB in August; that's quite soon.  Also, the Johnsons have enough cash on-hand to not need the kind of financing a typical developer would.  I read it more as working out the fine details of the development agreement and public financing breakdown.  The project could also be developed in phases, with parking deck (likely publicly financed) and stadium coming first.

[rancenc]

Another article on the upcoming baseball stadium for downtown Spartanburg.

https://upstatebusinessjournal.com/economic-development/bringing-baseball-back-to-spartanburg-sc-part-of-master-plan/

[westsider28]

Here's an example of the legal/administrative details that have to be put in order so this project can come to fruition: an amendment to an ordinance about the Local Accommodations Tax is on the agenda for the July 17 County Council meeting (pages 132-34 of the agenda).  I've screenshotted some important sections below (Section 2-c-i being the most pertinent).  As you can see, this would clear the way for using the Local Accommodations Tax to help fund the baseball stadium.

[westsider28]

Via Post & Courier: Leadership for the Greenville Drive are actively protesting the coming of a minor league team to Spartanburg, saying it's a threat to their business. 

Cry me a river, lol.  What a ridiculous and, frankly, pathetic reaction.  The argument holds no water.  The Triad in NC is about the same population as the Upstate and they have THREE teams (including two in the same league)!  I know Greenville thinks they're the only city in the Upstate, but they are not.  We have our own MSA, our own amenities, our own corporate base, etc.  I think they'll do fine drawing attendance from their 900k+ pop. MSA.  What a clown show over there. 

[spartanburgh]

Yes, that Greenville. When Greenville wanted a team back in the day Spartanburg had no objection to their getting the Greenville Braves. In fact,

I remember the owners of the Spartanburg Phillies saying that it could be a positive and the teams could play each other and create a rivalry even 

if one was A and the other AA. The rivalry could help "fill the stands".  Later the teams did play and have great attendance.  Greenville might not have

had a team at the old Greenville Braves location because it was much closer than their current facility. 

[roads-scholar]

I attended a G-Drive game earlier in the month and the stadium was less than half full on a beautiful Friday evening.   One game's attendance may or may not mean much to this discussion but I haven't seen any marketing outreach to the Spartanburg market.  

Maybe the G-Drive is concerned they'll lose stadium ad revenue from Spartanburg-based companies?  AFL and Milliken both pay to have their logos on the outfield wall.  
 

I've personally met the owner of the G-Drive and his son and came away impressed.  Their operation is first class and I'm confident they can continue to be successful without having to rely on Spartanburg  

For the record, I think the upstate is strong enough to support two minor league teams.   

 

Edited July 16, 2023 by roads-scholar

[GvilleSC]

19 hours ago, roads-scholar said:

I attended a G-Drive game earlier in the month and the stadium was less than half full on a beautiful Friday evening.   One game's attendance may or may not mean much to this discussion but I haven't seen any marketing outreach to the Spartanburg market.  

Maybe the G-Drive is concerned they'll lose stadium ad revenue from Spartanburg-based companies?  AFL and Milliken both pay to have their logos on the outfield wall.  

Just for the record, I think the upstate is strong enough to support two minor league teams.   

I agree that the Upstate can support two teams. I think you’re onto something regarding ad revenue. 
I feel like the Upstate is growing in such a way and the cities are developing in unique ways that Greenville and Spartanburg are truly compliments to each other. 

Edited July 16, 2023 by GvilleSC

[Spartan]

I'm not going to suggest Spartans never travel to Greenville for an occasional Drive game, but I think people are less willing to travel for the sole purpose of a minor league baseball game. I doubt this will hurt their business at all. Greenville has a lot of great things going for it, but let's not lose the perspective that this is just a minor league baseball team.

[westsider28]

On 7/10/2023 at 9:36 PM, westsider28 said:

Here's an example of the legal/administrative details that have to be put in order so this project can come to fruition: an amendment to an ordinance about the Local Accommodations Tax is on the agenda for the July 17 County Council meeting (pages 132-34 of the agenda).  I've screenshotted some important sections below (Section 2-c-i being the most pertinent).  As you can see, this would clear the way for using the Local Accommodations Tax to help fund the baseball stadium.

Herald-Journal has an article with more details about this County funding of the stadium.  The local 3% accommodations tax generates ~$2.1M per year, so 2/3 would be roughly $1.4M per year for the baseball stadium (leaving $700k per year for the Auditorium).  That funding split will remain "for the foreseeable future". 

It's a bit odd to me that there's not a concrete window of time. Most areas that do this have a specific number of years.  Twenty years at $1.4M per year would generate $28M; 25 years would be $35M.  It sounds like we could get more details before the third reading (likely in September).

As far as City funding, Chris Story says funding will come from ticket sales, the 2% food/beverage tax, and likely the Downtown Development District Major Project Fund ― "a mechanism that's been in place since the Broad Street Tax Increment District expired, which redirects some of the taxes generated downtown into a fund for further public investments directly in downtown."

The County accommodations tax is separate from the State 2% hospitality tax that funds local organizations who apply (which won't be affected).  Also, since the bonds for the Auditorium were retired, $2.8M has been accumulated in the fund, which will be used for a new roof and other capital improvements for the Auditorium.

[spartanburgh]

WYFF had an article on the stadium yesterday. It indicated that construction on the stadium would likely start in October. 

Not sure how reliable this information is, but that would be a little surprising to me. 

[gman430]

And yet still no renderings or site plans. Weird. 

[gman430]

On 7/20/2023 at 9:03 AM, spartanburgh said:

WYFF had an article on the stadium yesterday. It indicated that construction on the stadium would likely start in October. 

Not sure how reliable this information is, but that would be a little surprising to me. 

October it is: 

https://www.wyff4.com/amp/article/construction-to-begin-this-fall-on-south-carolina-baseball-stadium/44592187

[spartanburgh]

This project keeps being touted as the largest development in Downtown Spartanburg's history.  If it happens that will be true, but

I wonder if  the proposed Spartan Square development from the late 70's would have been bigger and more impactful if it had been

developed. Adjusted for inflation,  I think it may have been bigger.  It consisted of a 15 story hotel, 2  seven story office buildings, 

a "mall " with an ice rink below, parking garages and a new convention center.  I don't remember the estimated cost, but it could have

provided a similar or greater impact.  Anyway, just reminiscing and hoping this one has a different outcome! 

[roads-scholar]

On 7/23/2023 at 10:31 AM, spartanburgh said:

This project keeps being touted as the largest development in Downtown Spartanburg's history.  If it happens that will be true, but

I wonder if  the proposed Spartan Square development from the late 70's would have been bigger and more impactful if it had been

developed. Adjusted for inflation,  I think it may have been bigger.  It consisted of a 15 story hotel, 2  seven story office buildings, 

a "mall " with an ice rink below, parking garages and a new convention center.  I don't remember the estimated cost, but it could have

provided a similar or greater impact.  Anyway, just reminiscing and hoping this one has a different outcome! 

I was a teenager when "Spartan Square" (or whatever it was called) was first proposed in 1974.  Agree it would have had a huge and lasting impact on downtown had it reached fruition.  I think the biggest differences in that project and the one today is (1) the lead developer (The Johnson Group) is local, (2) the financing (at least pertaining to the stadium) seems mostly set on paper, (3) the national economy is robust compared to the stagnant 70's, and (4) grand downtown development schemes like Spartan Square were not something the  investment community was interested in. 

The city still charged ahead with Spartan Square waiting for the project to germinate.  But sadly we lost the Andrews Building and the core of the city of was a vast empty lot for a generation.  

Edited July 24, 2023 by roads-scholar

[camtology]

19 hours ago, roads-scholar said:

I was a teenager when "Spartan Square" (or whatever it was called) was first proposed in 1974.  Agree it would have had a huge and lasting impact on downtown had it reached fruition.  I think the biggest differences in that project and the one today is (1) the lead developer (The Johnson Group) is local, (2) the financing (at least pertaining to the stadium) seems mostly set on paper, (3) the national economy is robust compared to the stagnant 70's, and (4) grand downtown development schemes like Spartan Square were not something the  investment community was interested in. 

The city still charged ahead with Spartan Square waiting for the project to germinate.  But sadly we lost the Andrews Building and the core of the city of was a vast empty lot for a generation.  

Anything that Spartanburg does from now on will be helped by the fact that its position o n I-26 and I-85 gives it a good location between 3-4 major cities (Columbia & Asheville as well as Atlanta & Charlotte). Its becoming an increasingly opportune place to live and with the help of some national railway projects could become not only one of the fastest growing cities in the country but also one of the safest urban/semi-urban investments possible. All Spartanburg has to do is make sure it doesn't hit any major roadblocks and it should be able to get everything it wants or needs and the foreseeable future

[spartanburgh]

There was an excavator on site this morning! I hope this means dirt is going to start moving soon.

[gman430]

1 hour ago, spartanburgh said:

There was an excavator on site this morning! I hope this means dirt is going to start moving soon.

And yet still no renderings, site plans, or DRB approval. Weirdest project ever. 

[westsider28]

7 minutes ago, gman430 said:

And yet still no renderings, site plans, or DRB approval. Weirdest project ever. 

All in good time.  This is the normal process.  As I mentioned upthread, public financing is still in-progress, so it can't move forward until that's finalized anyway.  DRB approval is one of the last steps.

[gman430]

Two backhoes now on site. We shall see,