Military Circle Redevelopment

[zeppelin14]

As a Veteran, a VA hospital is needed.

[EJ_LEWIS]

Don't like the sea of parking required for the VA Hospital.  What about building a parking garage instead hidden underneath or behind the VA Hospital?  The vision for Military Circle is to make it more urban not suburban.  A large parking lot screams suburbia of the 60s and 70s.  

[vdogg]

24 acres of prime real estate taken off the blocks for a VA hospital.... I'm all for taking care of our vets, but this is just not the right location. We need to think big here. I also wonder if this land will still be taxable after the VA purchase, anyone have insight on that? I'm not too excited about yet more Norfolk land being taken off the tax rolls by the federal government. Hoping this is not case.

[HRVA]

2 hours ago, vdogg said:

24 acres of prime real estate taken off the blocks for a VA hospital.... I'm all for taking care of our vets, but this is just not the right location. We need to think big here. I also wonder if this land will still be taxable after the VA purchase, anyone have insight on that? I'm not too excited about yet more Norfolk land being taken off the tax rolls by the federal government. Hoping this is not case.

It mentions the VA would lease the property, so presumably a developer will own the land/building as an income producing property and thus it would be taxable. 

[BFG]

I’m not against a VA hospital, but I’d put it somewhere in the new Sentara developments off Kempsville, or at JANAF given the military connections there. 

[baobabs727]

6 hours ago, vdogg said:

24 acres of prime real estate taken off the blocks for a VA hospital.... I'm all for taking care of our vets, but this is just not the right location. We need to think big here. I also wonder if this land will still be taxable after the VA purchase, anyone have insight on that? I'm not too excited about yet more Norfolk land being taken off the tax rolls by the federal government. Hoping this is not case

But Kenny says nothing has changed.  The developer will just have to work with the VA. That's all.  No problem! 

[zeppelin14]

Much to my surprise the Ross at Military Circle Mall is still open. Talking to an employee there, they have a lease that the company won't break because this particular store makes $10M a year. Their lease runs until 2025.

[vdogg]

Sooo... I have no clue what's going on. Apparently the VA hospital may not actually happen as earlier indicated, and according to the city, they're still in talks with Wellness Circle. I don't even know where to start with this.

https://www.pilotonline.com/2023/08/26/an-arena-housing-va-facility-the-plan-for-military-circle-remains-unclear/

[HRVA]

30 minutes ago, vdogg said:

Sooo... I have no clue what's going on. Apparently the VA hospital may not actually happen as earlier indicated, and according to the city, they're still in talks with Wellness Circle. I don't even know where to start with this.

https://www.pilotonline.com/2023/08/26/an-arena-housing-va-facility-the-plan-for-military-circle-remains-unclear/

I know with the Chesapeake outpatient clinic (which is what is being proposed here), the bids required the developer to have a site so there were at least two different sites in Chesapeake and at least another in Virginia Beach being considered.  Until the VA awards the contract there are likely multiple sites being considered with each taking whatever steps are required to obtain approvals. 

[BFG]

On 8/26/2023 at 9:59 PM, vdogg said:

Sooo... I have no clue what's going on. Apparently the VA hospital may not actually happen as earlier indicated, and according to the city, they're still in talks with Wellness Circle. I don't even know where to start with this.

https://www.pilotonline.com/2023/08/26/an-arena-housing-va-facility-the-plan-for-military-circle-remains-unclear/

I have to remember this is a family forum and choose my words carefully, but why is it so difficult for this city to make a decision on ANYTHING? Two dead malls, a downtown that’s a shell of its former self, and nothing but lip service left and right. You kick paying tenants out and offer no replacement.

You want a new arena but won’t pull the trigger. Same song and dance for the last 25 years. You want light rail to go somewhere but keep wasting everyone’s time with study after study. It really shouldn’t be this complicated. [Go number 2] or get off the pot and stop talking a big game if you won’t back it up. You wonder why the city won’t grow, it’s because you’re all talk and zero action. 

[mintscraft56]

So, to put it short for anyone not wanting to read the paragraphs, we have no damn idea where this project is going. 

[baobabs727]

As I've said from the very beginning, much to the consternation of my friends here on UP HR, BT was right about the arena.  He was right about many things, as he usually is.  And what he said in that article about the arena and, specifically about Pharrell Williams, well...wow. Just wow.   

Proof is in the pudding, folks. And so far, Mr. Happy's dog won't hunt....while Mr. Cavalier remains undaunted in his "I told ya so" finger-wagging.  

I think this proves the point that everyone has his/her strengths.  Sometimes ya just need to stay in ya lane and stick with what ya know....  Let the pros take it from here.

Edited August 28, 2023 by baobabs727

[Norva757]

Who is BT?

[BFG]

Bruce Thompson

[BFG]

So is this dead? Is Norfolk content with two dead malls or are they actually going to make a move this decade? An arena could be close to completed if they'd stop dragging their feet.

[BFG]

https://whro.org/news/local-news/43092-military-circle-mall-redevelopment-proposals-including-arena-plans-have-been-shelved?fbclid=IwAR1xUBS-I-wTT5tGCkv98t-BALMXlALTpbV-El8w0jfV-DtbaX2AMcRxVN8

To the surprise of absolutely no one, this is now on indefinite hold. I'm begging City Council not to propose any other major projects unless they are 110% positive they will move forward. I'm so sick and tired of this city promising one big project after another that's never even gotten close to a groundbreaking, let alone a ribbon cutting. You constantly hold the football out like Lucy, and so many of us fall for it like Charlie Brown.

Gateway Tower X
Performing arts venue on Scope Plaza X
Apartments on the open lot at MacArthur X
Anything regarding the future of MacArthur X
Redeveloping Military Circle X
Light rail going anywhere past EVMS and Newtown Road X
The casino ? although I'm pretty sure it'll also be X

To the councilmembers who lurk this forum, it's a reason people leave this area. Charlotte, Raleigh, Nashville and God knows how many other similar-sized markets would've completed most or all of the above, regardless of economic conditions or a pandemic. Your inability to pull the trigger on any major project and abide by the status quo is pathetic, and this is coming from someone who has defended you on various occasions. Thanks for nothing.

Edited November 27, 2023 by BFG

[varider]

2 hours ago, BFG said:

https://whro.org/news/local-news/43092-military-circle-mall-redevelopment-proposals-including-arena-plans-have-been-shelved?fbclid=IwAR1xUBS-I-wTT5tGCkv98t-BALMXlALTpbV-El8w0jfV-DtbaX2AMcRxVN8

To the surprise of absolutely no one, this is now on indefinite hold. I'm begging City Council not to propose any other major projects unless they are 110% positive they will move forward. I'm so sick and tired of this city promising one big project after another that's never even gotten close to a groundbreaking, let alone a ribbon cutting. You constantly hold the football out like Lucy, and so many of us fall for it like Charlie Brown.

Gateway Tower X
Performing arts venue on Scope Plaza X
Apartments on the open lot at MacArthur X
Anything regarding the future of MacArthur X
Redeveloping Military Circle X
Light rail going anywhere past EVMS and Newtown Road X
The casino ? although I'm pretty sure it'll also be X

To the councilmembers who lurk this forum, it's a reason people leave this area. Charlotte, Raleigh, Nashville and God knows how many other similar-sized markets would've completed most or all of the above, regardless of economic conditions or a pandemic. Your inability to pull the trigger on any major project and abide by the status quo is pathetic, and this is coming from someone who has defended you on various occasions. Thanks for nothing.

I feel your pain /: what else is there to say, other than that we just don’t have a lot going for us. Even the wind turbine things are hitting a snag and other areas are beating us to it.  It’s getting late in the game to expext any of these major developments to make a meaningful difference here  

[vdogg]

Of course delayed for another "study"... I don't even have the energy to discuss this now, just completely uninterested. I'm not paying any further attention to anything they say until piles are being driven into the ground. Rudderless, helpless, hopeless, feckless, such is Norfolk City Council. I'm done.

[carolinaboy]

As much as I hate to say it, I never thought a new arena should be built anyway. There is no major league team from any sport (new, expansion or relocating) that is going to locate here. Move forward with renovating Scope. At least it may be a catalyst for additional growth/development in downtown.

[BFG]

Someone jog my memory please…upgrading Scope was too costly right? But it would’ve brought us to about 15K capacity for basketball plus luxury suites? It was similar to what Seattle did with Climate Pledge Arena, but it was also one big design difference I forget.

Regardless, if a Scope overhaul could get us half the events Seattle has now I’d be happy. If more than 15K can happen and we keep the original exterior design I’m happy. 

[HRVT]

3 hours ago, carolinaboy said:

As much as I hate to say it, I never thought a new arena should be built anyway. There is no major league team from any sport (new, expansion or relocating) that is going to locate here. Move forward with renovating Scope. At least it may be a catalyst for additional growth/development in downtown.

Agreed. This isn't an "if you build it they will come" scenario. Hampton Roads will be nothing more than leverage for NHL/NBA relocations at this time and the foreseeable future.

Renovate Scope or if a new arena is a must, build one of an appropriate size (12k or so IMO). That should be enough to be marketable for some mid-level college basketball tournaments or even the 1st/2nd round of the NCAAs.

Other examples of 12K or so capacity arenas hosting the NCAA tournament (1st/2nd round) are San Diego (Viejas Arena as recently as 2018 and planned for 2026), Boise (most recently 2018), Providence, RI (most recently 2016 and planned 2025), Fort Worth (2022), and Spokane (2023).

Long and short: 12K seats should be big enough to attract most of what we'd want to see to Norfolk.

[mintscraft56]

I wonder if any city officials look at this site. I also wonder if they purposely tiptoe around our suggestions OR just ignore them all together.  

[BFG]

I believe a couple council members lurk from time to time. I’ve seen one (Tommy Smigel IIRC) respond to Reddit posts in the Norfolk sub. 

[HRVA]

6 hours ago, BFG said:

I believe a couple council members lurk from time to time. I’ve seen one (Tommy Smigel IIRC) respond to Reddit posts in the Norfolk sub. 

Martin Thomas will chime in on Reddit from time to time, most recently to correct some misinformation about some proposed changes to the zoning ordinance. 

[vdogg]

10 hours ago, mintscraft56 said:

I wonder if any city officials look at this site. I also wonder if they purposely tiptoe around our suggestions OR just ignore them all together.  

Yes, they've seen the site. No, they're not purposely tiptoeing around suggestions. They're not going to make decisions based on what a handful of people say on a website. We are but a minority in a sea of voices in this region, and many of us (myself included) are not Norfolk residents and therefore are not constituents and have no official say in the process. I firmly believe that they feel they're making the right choices in the governance of this city, but that's not going to stop me from calling for new blood on city council. All we can do is express opinions, just like anyone else, and hope that at least one of our suggestions is taken to heart. I was very pleased with how they decided to hold the Pamunkey's feet to the fire and made them adhere to the original agreement. That was new, and I believe that was due to, in large part, some of the criticism they received for past decisions.