Laurens Road Corridor

[vistatiger]

5 hours ago, GvilleSC said:

Is this really that big of a deal? If they want to be here, reduced (read: normal) operating hours isn't going to stop that. 

Yeah I remember when Harris Teeter agreed to close at 11pm when they were being vetted for Lewis Plaza.  (The HT out on Roper Mountain Rd was open 24 hrs back in the day)

Had Whataburger been another car wash I'm thinking it would have been approved with flying colors. 

 

[gman430]

Whataburger thinks they can eventually get it approved with 24/7 drive thru service. If not, they might take it to circuit court: 

https://www.thestate.com/news/local/article279370889.html

[apaladin]

On 9/16/2023 at 3:12 PM, gman430 said:

Whataburger thinks they can eventually get it approved with 24/7 drive thru service. If not, they might take it to circuit court: 

https://www.thestate.com/news/local/article279370889.html

6 Nimbys, geesh. The power of minimal beotching!!

[gman430]

51 minutes ago, apaladin said:

6 Nimbys, geesh. The power of minimal beotching!!

Yep. It’s sad and pathetic. ALL of their 900+ locations across the country are open 24/7 but there are a few NIMBY forum members on here who think they’re still gonna come to that site if it’s not open 24/7. That’s not how it works. The City of Greenville is so damn backwards right now, it’s stupid. I for one hope Whataburger files a lawsuit and wins. 

Edited September 17, 2023 by gman430

[NewlyUpstate]

24 minutes ago, gman430 said:

Yep. It’s sad and pathetic. ALL of their 900+ locations across the country are open 24/7 but there are a few NIMBY forum members on here who think they’re still gonna come to that site if it’s not open 24/7. That’s not how it works. The City of Greenville is so damn backwards right now, it’s stupid. I for one hope Whataburger files a lawsuit and wins. 

I really am curious.. what's the benefit to Greenville for Whataburger coming here? I think its good, but it's not like its generating significant economic value to the area (people wouldn't be traveling here that otherwise wouldn't, it would more likely just reroute spend already happening within city limits).  It would likely just take traffic from Cookout, Chick fil a, and Culvers.

This isn't about being NIMBY. It's more about sticking to your values. Why even create a zoning plan (especially with all the fanfare that happened around the new one) if you are just going to cut it to pieces immediately?

Same reason I was against a Whole Foods with a giant surface lot in the new expanded city center for downtown.

Edited September 17, 2023 by NewlyUpstate

[vicupstate]

I'm sure there are zoning classifications that allow 24/7 hours. Whataburger could have selected a location in one of those zones. They could have purchased the property conditional to getting an approval for the site they choose too.  They took that chance. In this particular instance I feel there is sufficient buffer between it and the first home, but it is foolish to think  that 24/7 locations cannot become problematic. If it in fact did, the loss of property vales of the nearly homes could easily offset any financial gain to the city from the Whataburger. It's easy to call it a NIMBY overreach when you're not the one that has to smell burger grease 24/7 or deal with people urinating in your yard at 3:00.    

The rules are there for a reason and if all it takes to nullify a zoning restriction is going to circuit court, then the laws will be powerless in a short time. 

[vistatiger]

1 hour ago, vicupstate said:

I'm sure there are zoning classifications that allow 24/7 hours. Whataburger could have selected a location in one of those zones. They could have purchased the property conditional to getting an approval for the site they choose too.  They took that chance. In this particular instance I feel there is sufficient buffer between it and the first home, but it is foolish to think  that 24/7 locations cannot become problematic. If it in fact did, the loss of property vales of the nearly homes could easily offset any financial gain to the city from the Whataburger. It's easy to call it a NIMBY overreach when you're not the one that has to smell burger grease 24/7 or deal with people urinating in your yard at 3:00.    

The rules are there for a reason and if all it takes to nullify a zoning restriction is going to circuit court, then the laws will be powerless in a short time. 

Good points. The almost certain booming music that will come from the cars in that drive thru as they wait at 3 in the morning would be the thing that would drive me crazy. I live in a subdivision  and the bass from just passers by and vibrating my walls in the middle of the day drives me crazy.  I'm sure they get some of that from passers by on Laurens Rd now but would be nothing like someone sitting in that drive thru with it booming.

[btoy]

IMO the City has no business telling any business what their hours of operation are.  Yes they may have pass some laws giving themselves that power, but they shouldn't have.  

IMO the City has no business telling any business what their hours of operation are.  Yes they may have pass some laws giving themselves that power, but they shouldn't have.  

 

Also, these are the dumbest reasons to block it. 

"Michael Austin said the drive-thru late hours would increase traffic through the neighborhood" - only traffic through their neighborhood to get to Laurens rd. is going to be from their neighbors.

 

 “With no bathrooms open people would be urinating."  - this is just stupid, is people pissing out side at drive-thru's really a thing?  If so, require them to have a restroom available, easy fix.  Doesn't have to be one inside, it could have an exterior entrance like gas stations used to have.  But again, its a drive-thru, people are hanging around to eat and take a piss.

 

 

[GvilleSC]

^^ I'm sympathetic to the root of that argument, but I also recognize that, in practice, limitations do have a place in a functional society. As a downtown resident, I appreciate that bars close at 2. It eliminates not only drunkenness, but also associated street noise from cars and associated cruising. 

[gman430]

A suburban looking Whole Foods in the heart of downtown, a 24/7 QT along Academy Street, and a 24/7 Waffle House along Stone Avenue which all have homes literally right next door are okay but a Whataburger along a commercial corridor isn’t. Only in Greenville. What a joke. Don’t forget that Cookout that is open until 4am is literally right across the street. Can’t wait to watch the city coffers take a hit from the lawsuits. 

Edited September 18, 2023 by gman430

[NewlyUpstate]

8 minutes ago, gman430 said:

A suburban looking Whole Foods in the heart of downtown, a 24/7 QT along Academy Street, and a 24/7 Waffle House along Stone Avenue which all have homes literally right next door are okay but a Whataburger along a commercial corridor isn’t. Only in Greenville. What a joke. Don’t forget that Cookout that is open until 4am is literally right across the street. Can’t wait to watch the city coffers take a hit from the lawsuits. 

Situations where business is able to occur under previous law happens everywhere around the world.. not just in Greenville... I'm not familiar with the current zoning of those areas but they would be grandfathered into the old zoning regardless. 

[gman430]

12 minutes ago, NewlyUpstate said:

Situations where business is able to occur under previous law happens everywhere around the world.. not just in Greenville... I'm not familiar with the current zoning of those areas but they would be grandfathered into the old zoning regardless. 

The Whole Foods Market goes against the master plan of the site that was approved by the planning commission but it still got approved with flying colors. I stand by my statement regarding Whataburger. The proposed site for them is along a commercial corridor surrounded by other fast food establishments and therefore it should be zoned to allow such. 

Edited September 18, 2023 by gman430

[vicupstate]

1 hour ago, gman430 said:

The Whole Foods Market goes against the master plan of the site that was approved by the planning commission but it still got approved with flying colors. I stand by my statement regarding Whataburger. The proposed site for them is along a commercial corridor surrounded by other fast food establishments and therefore it should be zoned to allow such. 

Whole Foods DIDN'T get approved. The agreement with the developers does not REQUIRE an approval for them to change their plans. One of the reasons that was controversial.  

I assure you these type of controversies occur all the time all across the country. 

The closest house to that Cookout is between 400 and 500 feet versus 175' with Whataburger.  Regardless, it was approved under the old code. 

[btoy]

If I recall, 24 hour operations didn't used to take special approval until the Stone Ave. waffle house.  And I think drive-thrus didn't need special approval until CFA tried to go on Augusta St.

[gman430]

7 hours ago, vicupstate said:

Whole Foods DIDN'T get approved. The agreement with the developers does not REQUIRE an approval for them to change their plans. One of the reasons that was controversial.  

I assure you these type of controversies occur all the time all across the country. 

The closest house to that Cookout is between 400 and 500 feet versus 175' with Whataburger.  Regardless, it was approved under the old code. 

I should have been more clear. Planning Commission staff did have to approve the Whole Foods Market due to the site being within the downtown design guidelines area. I don’t believe it had to be approved by the full board as an agenda item though. 

Edited September 19, 2023 by gman430

[gman430]

Starbuck’s with drive thru approved even though it goes against the new zoning law: 

https://www.postandcourier.com/greenville/news/not-my-favorite-tasting-coffee-starbucks-may-spark-growth-in-neglected-greenville-area/article_b15077bc-53e0-11ee-97d6-8b4bc864571e.html

 

 You can’t make this up:

Board members with the BZA said they agreed with city staff’s recommendation to approve the project even though it doesn’t fit the typical vision for the property’s zoning of “urban node mixed-use.”

The one-story coffee shop has 16 spaces planned for vehicles in a drive-thru, but an urban node is zoned for retail, office and residential development of four to six stories.

Neighbors expressed concerns over the traffic caused by the drive-thru as a potential hazard for pedestrians.

The only driveway into the Starbucks which would be installed about 10 feet from the boundary of Atrevia Bonaparte-Carlile’s home on Waters Avenue.

Susan Lueck said she was “super excited” the property would be redeveloped but worried that it wasn’t a good fit because it wouldn’t fit the vision for a potential node.

Although the board members acknowledged residents’ traffic concerns, they unanimously approved the drive-thru, on the condition that Redmon follows city staff’s recommendations from a forthcoming traffic study.

Edited September 19, 2023 by gman430

[vicupstate]

Some Special Exceptions are granted and some are not. That's why they are called special exceptions.  

The neighbors on Laurens were unanimously opposed, and in the Starbucks case it was divided. Makes a big difference whether you are talking about a special exception, a rezoning or land use change.  That applies to BZA, DRB, PC and especially City Council. 

[apaladin]

4 hours ago, vicupstate said:

Some Special Exceptions are granted and some are not. That's why they are called special exceptions.  

The neighbors on Laurens were unanimously opposed, and in the Starbucks case it was divided. Makes a big difference whether you are talking about a special exception, a rezoning or land use change.  That applies to BZA, DRB, PC and especially City Council. 

So six people from a neighborhood is unanimous? 

[GvilleSC]

5 minutes ago, apaladin said:

So six people from a neighborhood is unanimous? 

Did anyone  from the adjacent neighborhood voice support?

[ausrutherford]

19 hours ago, gman430 said:

I should have been more clear. Planning Commission staff did have to approve the Whole Foods Market due to the site being within the downtown design guidelines area. I don’t believe it had to be approved by the full board as an agenda item though. 

 

No applications for the Whole Foods have been received by the City, let alone approved, as of yet. 

Edited September 19, 2023 by ausrutherford

[gman430]

3 hours ago, ausrutherford said:

 

No applications for the Whole Foods have been received by the City, let alone approved, as of yet. 

Thanks for the info. I figured it had already gotten approved due to the site work currently underway. My mistake. It still has to be approved by PC staff correct? That’s what I was told by other city officials. 

Edited September 20, 2023 by gman430

[NewlyUpstate]

Noticed the Laurens Rd Whataburger was not on their list of initial locations. Wonder if this location will still happen.

Honestly, I've been several times (and just recently last week) and tried various things on the menu and everything I've had is mediocre at best.  Probably one of the weakest "regional" burger chains.

Edited November 15, 2023 by NewlyUpstate

[gman430]

The proposed Taco Boy for Laurens Road has stalled out. Those interest rates are starting to finally bite. 

Edited January 5 by gman430

[vistatiger]

5 hours ago, gman430 said:

The proposed Taco Boy for Laurens Road has stalled out. Those interest rates are starting to finally bite. 

I believe the Taco Boy at Biltmore Park in Asheville (announced at the same time as Greenville) has opened. Maybe there is some other issue.

[gman430]

Whataburger took the denial to court. Good to see. Hope they win: 

https://www.postandcourier.com/greenville/whataburger-greenville-sc-laurens-road/article_136a567c-ba28-11ee-98e7-af482b4ee2d3.html