Hampton Roads Off-Topic Talk

[vdogg]

I don't like her, she is so anti-Norfolk.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

She seems pretty ok to me. I don't like a lot of her politics but on development issues she really hits the mark. And being pro-Va. Beach isn't any more anti-Norfolk than being pro-Norfolk is anti-Va. Beach. I'm pro-both and it seems to work for me just fine.

[urbanvb]

I appreciate the mayor's focus on bringing on good paying jobs to the city. Also to the redevelopment of the northern urban half from the mostly suburban southern half.

[hoobo]

I don't like her, she is so anti-Norfolk.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So the Beach mayor should bow to Norfolk's wishes? Her job is to look out for VB's interests, not Norfolk's. Should VB have to chip in for an arena in Norfolk or for MacArthur? No. Should Norfolk have to chip in for a super-regional convention center or TC? No. Should VB let Norfolk have a company when VB has a shot at it? No. Same question for Norfolk. No. Having a county wouldn't help either. Look at Orange County in California. All the cities hate each other. Anaheim, Orange, Costa Mesa, Santa Ana, Huntington Beach, and Irvine are all trying to become the center of OC. Irvine wanted to steal the Courts plaza from Santa Ana. Anaheim and Santa Ana want to take away the title of tallest building from Costa Mesa. They're separate municipalities and need to look after their own interests. That's why Meyera and Paul are good mayors.

[urbanvb]

So it seems that it's just not our area that is like that. I would think with metropolitan areas that have numerous cities it would be the same. Each city is vying for the best paying jobs, to be the center of commerce, etc.

Edited July 1, 2005 by guynvb

[vdogg]

So it seems that it's just not our area that is like that. I would think with metropolitan areas that have numerous cities it would be the same. Each city is vying for the best paying jobs, to be the center of commerce, etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And there is really nothing wrong with that. The only issue that i have a problem with the lack of cooperation is the transportation issue, but thats already in a separate thread so i'm not gonna start a debate about that here. It is a job of a city to look out for the interest of it's citizens, otherwise, why have cities at all?

[rusthebuss]

So the Beach mayor should bow to Norfolk's wishes?  Her job is to look out for VB's interests, not Norfolk's.  Should VB have to chip in for an arena in Norfolk or for MacArthur?  No.  Should Norfolk have to chip in for a super-regional convention center or TC?  No.  Should VB let Norfolk have a company when VB has a shot at it?  No.  Same question for Norfolk.  No.  Having a county wouldn't help either.  Look at Orange County in California.  All the cities hate each other.  Anaheim, Orange, Costa Mesa, Santa Ana, Huntington Beach, and Irvine are all trying to become the center of OC.  Irvine wanted to steal the Courts plaza from Santa Ana.  Anaheim and Santa Ana want to take away the title of tallest building from Costa Mesa.  They're separate municipalities and need to look after their own interests.  That's why Meyera and Paul are good mayors.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, Mayor Meyera has said alot of negative things about the city of Norfolk and that is why I don't like her. She thinks that Vabeach is sooooo much better than Norfolk it makes me sick. I never said that they should bow to Norfolk and I don't know where you got that from in that comment I made. I've never heard Mayor Fraim say any negative thing towards any other city in this area!

[hoobo]

No, Mayor Meyera has said alot of negative things about the city of Norfolk and that is why I don't like her. She thinks that Vabeach is sooooo much better than Norfolk it makes me sick. I never said that they should bow to Norfolk and I don't know where you got that from in that comment I made. I've never heard Mayor Fraim say any negative thing towards any other city in this area!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not to get to much off topic, but what comments? And are they really any different than what other cities say about their neighbors especially the ones towards which they feel inferior?

[rusthebuss]

Not to get to much off topic, but what comments?  And are they really any different than what other cities say about their neighbors especially the ones towards which they feel inferior?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They were quoting in saying they didn't want the Norfolk element in VaBeach. There have been many more comments but i will leave it at that one. I have never heard any negative comments come from any Norfolk councilman or mayors.

[hoobo]

They were quoting in saying they didn't want the Norfolk element in VaBeach. There have been many more comments but i will leave it at that one. I have never heard any negative comments come from any Norfolk councilman or mayors.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm taking this to the OT thread.

[hoobo]

They were quoting in saying they didn't want the Norfolk element in VaBeach. There have been many more comments but i will leave it at that one. I have never heard any negative comments come from any Norfolk councilman or mayors.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought you'd mention that comment. Every town with a higher per cap income than their neighbor will say that. Georgetown didn't want the Metro because of that. Irvine didn't want CenterLine because of that (Irvine is much more wealthy than Santa Ana). Most of West L.A. is against public transport (besides buses) because it'll bring the bad element in droves. That comment was in reference to light rail which at the time would've been useless for VB. Now with TC, the benefits have gone up, but I don't think it'll be cost-effective. VB is looking into BRT which would tie into Norfolk's LRT. You think Meyera has softened her stance on the "Norfolk element"? Wasn't Meyera happy when Norfolk built MacArthur becuase she wouldn't have to drive to NoVa for good shopping?

[vdogg]

The projects listing will be down for regular maintenance. It will return later tonight.

[urbanfan]

I thought you'd mention that comment.  Every town with a higher per cap income than their neighbor will say that.  Georgetown didn't want the Metro because of that.  Irvine didn't want CenterLine because of that (Irvine is much more wealthy than Santa Ana).  Most of West L.A. is against public transport (besides buses) because it'll bring the bad element in droves.  That comment was in reference to light rail which at the time would've been useless for VB.  Now with TC, the benefits have gone up, but I don't think it'll be cost-effective.  VB is looking into BRT which would tie into Norfolk's LRT.  You think Meyera has softened her stance on the "Norfolk element"?  Wasn't Meyera happy when Norfolk built MacArthur becuase she wouldn't have to drive to NoVa for good shopping?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How on earth can you say it would be useless. Considering the majority of people in virginia beach head other places to work. More and more jobs are coming to the beach but that doesn't change the fact that traffice is heavy in the morning all the way to norfolk, and opposite during evening rush hour. This light rail would have allowed people living in the beach to drop there car off at 264 and ride it in to downtown. Taking hundreds of cars off the road. For each car that's off of the road that is one less car that tourists have to drive with coming into the beach. Sounds to me that VB would be pretty smart to hop on the light rail. The whole purpose of the light rail line was to take some of the burden off of 264. So yes, the beach had plenty of need for it.

[baobabs727]

Meyera is the mayor of Virginia Beach, not Norfolk or Hampton Roads. She's the best advocate they've ever had, period. Mayor Faim, too, is a great advocate for Norfolk. Both have a duty to serve the interests of their respective citizenry. As much as some would not like to hear it, sometimes what is good for one is not the best for the other. That's life, folks. I think the cities (and we) need to agree to disagree on some issues and move on toward common ground on others where we can.

With respect to the history of Norfolk-Virginia Beach relations, there is not enough room in this thread to accomodate that disussion in full. Suffice it to say, Russ, that both sides have said and done things they might regret. I do seem to recall Norfolk's holding the water supply over Virginia Beach's head for a time. Course the Kellams engineered Norfolk's ever-shrinking territorial status (for which they've never forgiven the V.B elite), and I also recall the "Norfolk element" comments by some prominent folk of the P.A. County variety a long while back. Please, let's not dredge up old issues and agree to admit that things have progressed a bit since that time. Until then, with due respect, I'll add Virginia Beach and Meyera to the things you don't like--along with Richmond, Richmonders and Ukrops--which you more than dislike. Can't we all just get along?!

[mercuex]

Meyera is the mayor of Virginia Beach, not Norfolk or Hampton Roads. She's the best advocate they've ever had, period. Mayor Faim, too, is a great advocate for Norfolk. Both have a duty to serve the interests of their respective citizenry. As much as some would not like to hear it, sometimes what is good for one is not the best for the other. That's life, folks. I think the cities (and we) need to agree to disagree on some issues and move on toward common ground on others where we can.

With respect to the history of Norfolk-Virginia Beach relations, there is not enough room in this thread to accomodate that disussion in full. Suffice it to say, Russ, that both sides have said and done things they might regret. I do seem to recall Norfolk's holding the water supply over Virginia Beach's head for a time.  Course the Kellams engineered Norfolk's ever-shrinking territorial status (for which they've never forgiven the V.B elite), and I also recall the "Norfolk element" comments by some prominent folk of the P.A. County variety a long while back. Please, let's not dredge up old issues and agree to admit that things have progressed a bit since that time. Until then, with due respect,  I'll add Virginia Beach and Meyera to the things you don't like--along with Richmond, Richmonders and Ukrops--which you more than dislike. Can't we all just get along?! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hmmm ... well, I like Richmond, I just don't like how Richmond gets a grossly inordinate amount of money compared to the rest of the state. But I live with it.

[Former Resident of HR]

Wasn't Meyera happy when Norfolk built MacArthur becuase she wouldn't have to drive to NoVa for good shopping?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As well as the fact that she has attended some official Norfolk city dedications and functions (I was in attendance at the Dr. MLK Jr. memorial dedication as was she).

I think that people are way off base getting riled up if the mayor does or does not "like" Norfolk. I personally like the city aspect but after moving to VA Beach, I can honestly say that there a lot of things about Norfolk that I do not miss at all, especially my dealings with any city office/library, the schools and the embarrassing council member who says racist things. Paul Riddick gets away with saying "why don't they have a drug bust at the Palace Shoppes where all the Jews shop?" and he is still in office! What a joke. Replace that quote with "Military Circle Mall" and "Blacks" and that council member would be unemployed now.

Norfolk is nice but seriously the city workers need a major attitude overhaul from the top down. Paul Fraim is a pretty cool guy but if Riddick is ever mayor look out!

Edited July 1, 2005 by JPN0731

[PeninsulaKiddo]

As well as the fact that she has attended some official Norfolk city dedications and functions (I was in attendance at the Dr. MLK Jr. memorial dedication as was she). 

I think that people are way off base getting riled up if the mayor does or does not "like" Norfolk.  I personally like the city aspect but after moving to VA Beach, I can honestly say that there a lot of things about Norfolk that I do not miss at all, especially my dealings with any city office/library, the schools and the embarrassing council member who says racist things.  Paul Riddick gets away with saying "why don't they have a drug bust at the Palace Shoppes where all the Jews shop?" and he is still in office!  What a joke.  Replace that quote with "Military Circle Mall" and "Blacks" and that council member would be unemployed now.

Norfolk is nice but seriously the city workers need a major attitude overhaul from the top down.  Paul Fraim is a pretty cool guy but if Riddick is ever mayor look out!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If Riddick is made mayor of Norfolk, that's the last straw and I'm moving to Charlotte until he's gone!

[hoobo]

How on earth can you say it would be useless.  Considering the majority of people in virginia beach head other places to work.  More and more jobs are coming to the beach but that doesn't change the fact that traffice is heavy in the morning all the way to norfolk, and opposite during evening rush hour.  This light rail would have allowed people living in the beach to drop there car off at 264 and ride it in to downtown.  Taking hundreds of cars off the road.  For each car that's off of the road that is one less car that tourists have to drive with coming into the beach.  Sounds to me that VB would be pretty smart to hop on the light rail.  The whole purpose of the light rail line was to take some of the burden off of 264.  So yes, the beach had plenty of need for it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It was estimated that a LR trip from Pembroke to Downtown would take about 25 minutes. Even in bad traffic, it takes 30 minutes driving. With flowing traffic, it takes at most 15 minutes. Where's the LR advantage?

[PeninsulaKiddo]

It was estimated that a LR trip from Pembroke to Downtown would take about 25 minutes.  Even in bad traffic, it takes 30 minutes driving.  With flowing traffic, it takes at most 15 minutes.  Where's the LR advantage?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

30 minutes? It's been a while since I've driven that stretch, so maybe I'm outdated here, but my last experience driving that distance on 264 took about 45 minutes-1 hour because of the jam right at the I-64 interchange. I know that it can and sometimes is much better, but with more and more cars on VB and Norfolk roads we need this now before it gets any worse.

Plus trains have the advantage of moving tourists and getting their cars (and bad driving) off our roads.

[hoobo]

30 minutes?  It's been a while since I've driven that stretch, so maybe I'm outdated here, but my last experience driving that distance on 264 took about 45 minutes-1 hour because of the jam right at the I-64 interchange.  I know that it can and sometimes is much better, but with more and more cars on VB and Norfolk roads we need this now before it gets any worse.

Plus trains have the advantage of moving tourists and getting their cars (and bad driving) off our roads.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, it's been about 4 years for me since I've done the drive during rush hour. I'm just not a fan of light rail. I like heavy rail and am intrigued by BRT. The former gets you there fast and the latter serves the same purpose as LRT for less money.

How will trains keep tourists off the road? Will they be forced to park in New Kent and made to ride a train down?

Edited July 1, 2005 by hoobo

[PeninsulaKiddo]

Well, it's been about 4 years for me since I've done the drive during rush hour.  I'm just not a fan of light rail.  I like heavy rail and am intrigued by BRT.  The former gets you there fast and the latter serves the same purpose as LRT for less money.

How will trains keep tourists off the road?  Will they be forced to park in New Kent and made to ride a train down?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Haha, whatever it takes. J/K. But if a tourist could park at a VB municipal garage and take trains around the area instead of driving around the area, it would take a lot of cars off the road that just don't need to be there.

BRT is an interesting concept, and perhaps if it's successful it can replace LRT altogether and be expanded into Norfolk. I've never ridden BRT, so I look forward to seeing the VB prototype.

[mercuex]

It was estimated that a LR trip from Pembroke to Downtown would take about 25 minutes.  Even in bad traffic, it takes 30 minutes driving.  With flowing traffic, it takes at most 15 minutes.  Where's the LR advantage?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well its not really about necessarily getting somewhere faster so much as providing a reliable and predictable alternative. If you ride the metro, you know it takes 15 minutes to get from Brookland/CUA to Union Station. If you drive, however, it could take anywhere from 10 to 30 minutes or more. I think you see my point.

Plus it always takes me like 45 to go from Pembroke to DT even in the heaviest of traffic.

[rusthebuss]

As well as the fact that she has attended some official Norfolk city dedications and functions (I was in attendance at the Dr. MLK Jr. memorial dedication as was she). 

I think that people are way off base getting riled up if the mayor does or does not "like" Norfolk.  I personally like the city aspect but after moving to VA Beach, I can honestly say that there a lot of things about Norfolk that I do not miss at all, especially my dealings with any city office/library, the schools and the embarrassing council member who says racist things.  Paul Riddick gets away with saying "why don't they have a drug bust at the Palace Shoppes where all the Jews shop?" and he is still in office!  What a joke.  Replace that quote with "Military Circle Mall" and "Blacks" and that council member would be unemployed now.

Norfolk is nice but seriously the city workers need a major attitude overhaul from the top down.  Paul Fraim is a pretty cool guy but if Riddick is ever mayor look out!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dude I totally agree with you on that. If a white city councilman had said something to his caliber they would have been thrown under the jail. I wish the hipocrisy, i think i spelled it right, has got to stop. I went to school with his son and he has always had the attitude that white people are out to get him. The sad thing is would the other councilman supported someone if it was reversed? I don't know if things like this will ever be resolved in anyones life time. I don't think you will have to worry about him becoming mayor because the city would go belly up.

[PeninsulaKiddo]

I don't know how many people on here get the Daily Press---I'd imagine all our peninsula people---but for those who don't know, the DP does an annual, springtime special section called "Living Here" where they go in-depth on info about the region, i.e. population stats, where to go, where to shop, etc. They have Hampton Roads' population stated (on page 24, second column) as 1,864,590??? I think they're including considerably more counties (middle peninsula, New Kent) than the census bureau does... *confused* I'll take that number, though, over 1.68 million, lol.

[Merrittk92]

Well its not really about necessarily getting somewhere faster so much as providing a reliable and predictable alternative. If you ride the metro, you know it takes 15 minutes to get from Brookland/CUA to Union Station. If you drive, however, it could take anywhere from 10 to 30 minutes or more. I think you see my point.

Plus it always takes me like 45 to go from Pembroke to DT even in the heaviest of traffic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well put. It's not only about the economic impact, but also the ecologic. Adding another car to the train is considerably cheaper than widening the road.

[vdogg]

So I guess you can say we have a bit of a problem on our hands

Gangs in HR

A quote from the article:

"A warning has come from the feds.

An FBI informant says MS-13, a notorious street gang with ties to El Salvador, recently issued an order for its members to kill someone