CATS Long Term Transit Plan - Silver, Red Lines

[tozmervo]

If you live on the Central corridor Further out than Eastway... as many working poor do, you have great bus service IF:

1. you can walk to the bus

2. you work within walking distance of one of the three bus lines that travel Central.

 

If either of these are untrue, your commute to work can be well in excess of an hour.  I would be willing to wager that more than 50% of the riders fall into that catagory.

 

I am not  a transit engineer, but it seems to me that if the system worked similar to big city transit systems routes could be strung together more efficiently.  Perhaps having routes that do not terminate uptown, but continue through uptown and overlap at one or two central stations would provide a network of connections that commuters could string together to make an efficient travel trip.  I think that Dallas or Houston or some out west city may have redesigned theirs this way recently.

 

So, a couple of thoughts - 

The first is that I totally agree that some of our spoke routes should be combined to create full through routes (maybe 9 + 7, or 3 + 16, etc). The downside to that is schedule reliability and predictability from Uptown will tank unless those through routes are scheduled with a lot of buffer time just sitting in Uptown. It would, at least, reduce some percentage of transfers. 

 

But at the same time it's a little unfair to suggest that CATS should provide walking-distance bus service to any major employment area in the city. Most big cities (particularly those with grid development) have a roughly tartan grid pattern of bus service which will entail at least one transfer. But to use your example, let's say you live near Kilborne Park: you are within walking distance of 39 (to Uptown), 9 (Albemarle to Uptown), 17 (Matthews to Uptown) and 232 circulator which will take you to the (29) University to South Park (27) Monroe Rd or (15) Randolph Rd. That's a hell of a lot of employment with 0 to 1 transfers. Obviously if we could afford, we could run all those routes on 10 minute headways throughout the day and dramatically cut down on commute times. 

 

Having said that, it is a well documented issue that as cities gentrify and become more expensive, lower income populations are being forced outward where bus services are much less common and more expensive to maintain. This problem is amplified in Charlotte (and other new-south cities) where connectivity between areas is a joke, so options for bus routes are nil. Repeat for police service, school busing, etc...

[archiham04]

I used the bus on a regular basis when I was employed in uptown.  My office moved, and I am no longer a full time busrider.  I agree that the uptown central transfer can work.  I just think that if there were more options for where any given transfer took place, there would be infinitely more combinations for better service.

[dcharlotte]

Interesting article from Seattle about how they lost out on transit funding money and the money was instead used to help build MARTA. This thinking can still be applied for new starts and other transit funding today.

 

 http://www.seattletimes.com/business/economy/the-mass-transit-system-seattle-might-have-had-jon-talton/

[kermit]

Price competition finally arrives in the rail transit construction industry. Alstom announces a cheaper and faster rail construction package: http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/urban/single-view/view/build-a-tramway-in-30-months.html

 

The 20% price reduction is significant, but with some luck, rail manufacturers might get into a price war and actually begin to innovate on construction.

[kermit]

Minneapolis has proposed parking minimums of zero (e.g. developers are not required to provide parking) for residential units in places where rail or bus frequency is at least every 15 minutes.

 

http://www.streetsblog.net/2015/06/12/minneapolis-may-drop-parking-minimums-near-transit/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+StreetsblogCalifornia+%28Streetsblog+California%29

Edited June 12, 2015 by kermit

[15895]

Someone shared this link before and I just filled out the questionnaire. The NCDOT has a survey on what to improve and rate their services

 

 

http://ncsu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_6VXzCNLGcdEtpwV

 

I chose Biking, Light Rail and Pedestrian access as the 3 big things improve in at the end. It does ask for Zip and county.

[Third Strike]

So NCDOT's STIP was updated, and an intercity bus line between Charlotte and Wilmington, along with points in-between, is planned. This will be done through Coach America. Hopefully this line is successful, and leads to a possible intercity rail between the two cities. One day...

 

http://www.enquirerjournal.com/news/x110771873/Transportation-priorities-include-Bypass-Old-Charlotte-improvements#.VX8lFs5QLow.reddit

 

https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/STIPDocuments/2016-2025%20STIP%20Division%2010.pdf

 

In other unrelated Charlotte news, the Durham-Orange light rail appeared in the STIP, for a cost of $1.4 billion. Is that cost more expensive than the BLE?

[kermit]

In other unrelated Charlotte news, the Durham-Orange light rail appeared in the STIP, for a cost of $1.4 billion. Is that cost more expensive than the BLE?

 

yup, by around $300,000-$400,000 -- although I believe Durham-Orange is about 8 miles longer than the BLE. Durham-Orange will be roughly the same length as the whole Blue Line (and roughly the same price based on current estimates).

Edited June 16, 2015 by kermit

[kermit]

This is going to be an interesting year for CATS and the MTC. In the next few months (IIRC) we should have substantial news on 1) the cost of the revised Red Line (NS should release their rail traffic forecasts for the O-Line and decide on exactly how much they will extort from the city for commuter rail) and 2) the Sliver Line (Matthews) alternatives analysis 3.0. 3) a pretty good idea about cost overruns (if they exist) on the BLE project.

These three reports should allow for the development of our MUCH NEEDED 2040 Transit Plan. While I am a crappy prognosticor I think we will see:

• The Red Line essentially abandoned due to NS asking for too much. The plan will languish until the toll lane non-compete fiasco results in state and federal money for the track upgrades to facilitate commuter service in 2022.
• The Silver Line remaining in its step-child status and essentially sitting on the shelf for another 15-20 years due to all the options being out of CATS's price range.
• The BLE being slightly delayed and slightly (but not disastorously) over budget.

Hopefully the MTC does not plan to sit on the current do-nothing status quo. I would like to see:

• Gold Line Phase III (including significant amounts of dedicated lanes rather than mixed-traffic running). find a dedicated revenue source for Gold Line operations cost
• Progress on West side / airport rail transit service (not heavy rail on the existing NS tracks -- that should be a seperate animal paid for by the state)
• Some type of high capacity service to the Southpark business district (minimally 7 minute frequency BRT on Park rd or Providence. BRT would loop around the business district before making a low-stop trip downtown. Better option would be full LRT running in dedicated ROW in the middle of Tyvola)
• The Ballantyne Blue Line extension
• Wifi on rail! (get google to pay for this)
• Full realtime vehicle tracking / smartphone integration jamboree (play up the presence of google fiber)
• Greater integration between CATS and Bcycle. CATS should sell a monthly pass option that includes Bcycle (extra $3 bucks per month?)
• Find a way to make the CTC more user friendly (e.g. reducing noise and fumes) Some type of integration with another CATS bus hub at Gateway?
• Ped / bike bridge over N Tryon rail yard.

Some other things I would like to see that are not currently part of CATS or MTC pervue:

• The integration of transit planning and parking provision (have neighborhood parking garage development by the city occur in cooperation with developing the 2040 plan). The goal being to facilitate the commercial growth (e.g. retail) in the corridors.
• revise / update our zoning! (form based, remove parking minimums....)
• Revise and update neighborhood plans and find a way for -enforce- the plans
• Reduce the amount of space devoted to cars and parking in the corridors (less parking, dedicated lanes for buses and streetcars)
• Better integration of bike infrastructure and transit. Have protected bike lanes runing to every rail station. Create tansit maps showing connections between transit and dedicated bike infra...
• Gateway, Gateway, Gateway!
• Commuter rail to Concord / Salisbury on the NCRR. Gastonia and Belmont (and the airport) on the NS

Big picture stuff:

• Plan our transit as if somone realized that we are one of the most rapidly growing large metros / counties / cities in the country
• Revenue! Its time to expand transit revenues in order to build a better transit system -- grow a pair and figure out how to get the revenue. Getting the BLE finsihed on time and under budget will help!
• Costs: find a cheaper way to construct rail transit (North American costs are very high -- more off the shelf products and systems would help)
• Keeping the MTC together. Can the outlying towns be kept in the MTC if getitng service to them (other than express bussess) is too expensive?
• Better integration of NC Intercity rail, CATS, bike

Enough rambling, I am clearly procrastinating.

TLDR: Update the damn long term transit plan before we become more like Atlanta

Edited June 18, 2015 by kermit

[LKN704]

The one thing that surprises me about the HOT lanes is that with all the people complaining about the upcoming project, NO ONE has said anything about transit (aka rail) alternatives. If I were CATS, I would prioritize the construction of LRT to Ballantyne and SouthPark over the Silver Line, with the Red Line being last in priority. I don't even think that Iredell is on board with the Red Line anymore.

 

I'll call the extension to Ballantyne the Lynx Southeast Extension. I could see potential stops at Downtown Pineville, Carolina Place Mall, Ballantyne "Central", and then maybe a terminus near Ardrey Kell Road. I'll call the extension to SouthPark the Lynx Green Line, as it would be essentially a whole new line joining the Blue Line at a spur/interchange station. I could see this going down either Woodlawn or Tyvola, terminating at Fairview/Colony Road. The problem is I feel like this spur would have to be either elevated or underground due to the congestion and development in the area, which would add a considerable expense. I think a spur from Woodlawn makes the most sense, with stations at Park Road, Barclay Downs/Piedmont Town Centre, SouthPark Mall, and Fairview/Colony Road.

 

I am still waiting for my smart card payment system after all these years. CATS has to be the largest transit system in the US without a contactless fare card system in place.

Edited June 19, 2015 by LKN704

[kermit]

I am still waiting for my smart card payment system after all these years. CATS has to be the largest transit system in the US without a contactless fare card system in place.

 

The city's only TIGER grant this cycle was for a new transit fare system which would be contactless (I believe). It didn't seem particularly innovative or transformative to mobility so I think its very unlikely they will get the grant. The summary of the proposal I read suggested that the BLE will have a smart card payment system regardless the grant outcome.

 

The state also submitted an applicaiton for Gateway Station track work.

[Spartan]

I found an excellent article about the I-77 HOT Lanes project, and why transit is a better investment. Definitely worth a read.

 

http://cityandplace.com/2015/06/11/why-the-debate-about-widening-i-77-in-charlotte-is-not-answering-the-right-question/

[Third Strike]

• Commuter rail to Concord / Salisbury on the NCRR. Gastonia and Belmont (and the airport) on the NS

 

Besides a small gap along the Catawba, the NS line is double tracked. However, would NS be okay with sharing their tracks with a commuter line? At the moment, Amtrak's Crescent line utilizes the tracks along with NS' freight trains.

[kermit]

However, would NS be okay with sharing their tracks with a commuter line?

 

Yes and No

 

For everything South of the current Amtrak station (roughly) NS would not be OK with commuter rail and they would certainly want lots of $ for capacity increases.

 

North of the current Amtrak station is NCRR territory which is leased to NS. The lease agrement allows the NCRR to run as many passenger trains as they want, as long as it does not interfere with NS freight. When they are complete next year the ARRA funded improvments should provide plenty of capacity for the comuter rail. They would need to build some service and turning facilities at the north end of the line (Spencer?).

Edited June 19, 2015 by kermit

[ajfunder]

They wouldn't need turning facilities if they operate in push-pull with cab cars on one end. That would eliminate a large expense. I think a commuter rail line to Salisbury with a possible terminus in Spencer would be an awesome, and feasible addition.

[birky]

I found an excellent article about the I-77 HOT Lanes project, and why transit is a better investment. Definitely worth a read.

 

http://cityandplace.com/2015/06/11/why-the-debate-about-widening-i-77-in-charlotte-is-not-answering-the-right-question/

 

Great stuff.

 

The truth is that we simply need more choices, and ones that aren’t predicated on accommodating single person occupancy vehicles on single-purpose freeways. Until we all move over to Smart Car-sized autonomous cars, freeways are a lost cause for improving travel times. Instead, we need to look at providing more choices in our corridors – choices in the network and in the mode.

 

When you look at a congestion map of Mecklenburg County, the deepest red, signaling the worst congestion, begins about 15 miles from the Center City, where the number of choices in the street network decreases dramatically.

 

[dubone]

I'm glad they are talking about the airport line and other updates to the transit plan at the MTC.  

 

http://charmeck.org/city/charlotte/cats/about/CATSBoard/mtc/_layouts/15/WopiFrame.aspx?sourcedoc=/city/charlotte/cats/about/CATSBoard/mtc/MTC%20Agenda/MTC-Agenda-150624.pdf&action=default

 

 

Many signs point to the need for an updated transit plan. Key components of the 2050 Regional Plan will be leveraging the full length of the LYNX Blue Line when the BLE is finished to maximize bus-rail connections throughout the county. Other opportunities include leveraging CityLYNX Gold Line, ensuring that the Human Transportation Services Plan for STS and DSS serve optimally, investigating opportunities for new regional express bus service and possibly reinstating discontinued routes.

There may be opportunities to provide enhanced and regional bus service in the planned

Fast Lane network in I-77 or US-74 and the Monroe Bypass, as well as on I-485. The West

Metropolitan Transit Commission

Meeting Summary, May 27, 2015 Page 5 of 6

Corridor to the airport has not been viewed as cost effective by FTA; however, the growth in the area as well as at the airport raises the point that we need to examine the corridor again to see if light rail is now appropriate. The LYNX Red Line remains a key component of the long-term plan. There could be potential to add more express bus service in that area. There is a lot of potential for commuter rail from outlying counties in the long-term plan but the State will need to be a major partner in developing an overall regional commuter rail plan. All future commuter rail corridors would come into downtown Charlotte and terminate at the future Charlotte Gateway Station.

Staff receives questions on extending LYNX Blue Line to the Speedway, Concord Mills or the

Phillip Morris development site to the north, or to downtown Pineville, Ballantyne or Fort Mill, SC to the south. There are a lot of mobility needs in the community. In the past, there were additional corridors considered beyond the five primary corridors in the current System Plan. These corridors should possibly be reconsidered for study along with additional corridors identified during the CONNECT process. A number of partners would need to be involved in developing a regional transit strategy. Some benefits would be to raise public awareness, participation and collaboration among regional partners and building on several key initiatives.

[Third Strike]

A line to Concord Mills would be nuts. What kind of ridership would the Blue Line see if it was extended to the Speedway and the mall? There's very little population density along that stretch, but apparently Concord Mills is the largest attraction in the state. Though, extending the Blue Line in that direction to at least I-485, along with a ride and park, would have a decent yield to ridership numbers, I think.

[dubone]

Keep in mind, these are just community comments.  But they are obvious next step extensions to look at.   Going into Cabarrus, though, would require Cabarrus to pay for them.   But I still absolutely believe in a Pineville to Ballantyne extension on the southern end. 

 

I'm heartened at reading the MTC summaries from the last quarter.  It seems that even though he is interim CEO, John Muth is pitching a number of updates and rethinking of the lines.   I love the talk of updating the ridership model to see if LRT or streetcar could be viable for federal funds now.  I love the talk of starting the corridor planning with all modes on the table (streetcar, LRT, commuter rail) in the southeast on a non-Independence corridor.   (That brings back to mind my old idea or an obvious idea that we should build a Airport to Matthews along the railroad corridors)   It is a shame that there is not much in the way of taking back the Gold line, but the revenues do appear to still be fairly light, so I guess it is reasonable that the city still pursue that incrementally).  

 

With everyone quite clear that the Red Line is not viable for a while, a focus on a new east-west LRT would be awesome.  Everyone seems to support airport transit lines generally as a point of basic infrastructure of a city, and the Southeast line had significant ridership potential according to the old studies.  With the Monroe Road area receiving investments from the city and some further urbanization already happening, it may very well have much better federal viability ratings now.   

Time will tell if that is how it evolves, but to me it is a no-brainer as the next major line.  

 

The Southeast-W (airport to Matthews) line would mean we would serve most of the directions in the city (SE-W Silver and NE-SW Blue with center city distribution with the Gold).   North Meck doesn't realize it yet, but their express buses will become much better service with the HOT lanes going in, so that will service their low density region for a while until they grow enough to pay for the Red Line.  

[cltbwimob]

^^^This is a much needed conversation.

 

Here is what I would like to see happen for the 2050 plan:

 

LYNX Silver Line:

-LRT from Matthews to the airport

-Use Central Avenue-Sharon Amity-Independence/Monroe Rd ROW  terminating at a large park and ride at I-485/US-74 for the eastern alignment.

-Use NS-Wilkinson-NS alignment for the western portion terminating at an I-485/Wilkinson park and ride facility.

-Allow for extension to Johnny Harris' "Crystal City" if it ever comes about.

 

LYNX Red Line:

-Abandon the NS Commuter Rail corridor in favor of a new corridor from Davidson College to Uptown using a ROW close to I-77 that can capture Northlake and    Bryton

-Use DMU based light rail (a la NCTD Sprinter) to increase acceleration, number of stops, and frequency for increased ridership.

 

LYNX Blue Line:

-Construct an extension to Ballantyne with a stop at Carolina Place

-Construct an extension to Concord Airport via US-29 and Bruton Smith Blvd with stops at I-485, Speedway, and Concord Mills

-Construct large park and rides at I-485/US-521, I-485/US-29, and I-85/Concord Mills

 

CityLYNX Streetcar:

-Create a true urban circulator

-Construct phases 1 & 2 as well as the Beatties Ford Rd segment

-Relinquish the Central Avenue corridor to LYNX Silver Line

-Construct new segments in the following locations using dedicated ROW wherever possible:

   1. I-85 to Uptown along Freedom Drive corridor

   2. Queens University-CHC-Metropolitain-Uptown corridor

 

LYNX Circumferential BRT:

-Construct a BRT circumferential route from Southpark to the airport via Tyvola Rd and Billy Graham Pkwy.

-Eventually extend in phases from the airport to Northlake via I-485, Northlake to UNCC via WT Harris, and UNCC to LYNX Silver Line via Harris and Sharon Amity

 

Commuter Rail:

-Provide Commuter Rail service to

   1.  Monroe via CSX

   2.  Gastonia via P&N

   3.  Salisbury via NCRR

   4.  Rock Hill via NS if they will allow.

[ah59396]

^^^^^^^^

This is a plan I can get behind.

[birky]

Where would a Matthews-Airport LRT line cut through Uptown?  Isn't that sort of the idea?

[cltbwimob]

It would most likely have to use an in-street ROW (perhaps 4th street) from I-277 to Gateway Station and then follow the NS ROW past Charlotte Pipe and I-77 at which point the hyptohetcal LRT line could travel in the center of Wikinson until it got closer to the airport.

[tozmervo]

Because maps, https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=z8afKc2mFdAc.kXpjFoHWF9Ic&usp=sharing

 

Started adding a few of those thoughts on (haven't made it as far as the commuter rail).

 

I think there are some interesting possibilities with the silver line, though I'm having a lot of heartburn with it running down central through P-M and really want to leave it in the CSX ROW to capture more Monroe Rd neighborhoods. Going west, I'm not sure the railroad ROW is the right solution because developable land is so limited, whereas running down 74 would have more impact.

 

I'm leaving editing open for now for folks to doodle. We'll find the money for these lines later

 

**edit: now editing is open. had a setting wrong.

Edited June 24, 2015 by tozmervo

[southslider]

Instead of following Central, follow the north side of Independence. Then, a station between Hawthorne and Pecan can serve both Midwood and Elizabeth (and Commonwealth and Chantilly). And I'm not talking within the busway, but actually on fill and at-grade with Hawthorne but over CSX and Pecan.