CATS Long Term Transit Plan - Silver, Red Lines

[southslider]

^That's NSRR's demand, not the plan for Red Line. Hence, the project is dead until the NSRR's position changes

[ajfunder]

It's not completely dead, NS did leave the option open to build a parrallel track, but that is most likely cost prohibitive.

[kermit]

^ CATS didn't have the money for the $300 million shared ROW plan. They certainly don't have the money for a $billion plus new ROW plan.

 

EDIT: plus the problem of the dead $250+ million CSX grade separation at the ADM mill.

 

I have said it before, I think the Northern towns will get BRT light on the HOT lanes on 77 as their 'transit' improvement.

Edited February 25, 2015 by kermit

[15895]

^ CATS didn't have the money for the $300 million shared ROW plan. They certainly don't have the money for a $billion plus new ROW plan.

EDIT: plus the problem of the dead $250+ million CSX grade separation at the ADM mill.

I have said it before, I think the Northern towns will get BRT light on the HOT lanes on 77 as their 'transit' improvement.

I rather not have BRT if they can't keep the current routes of 77&48

[js4life]

^ CATS didn't have the money for the $300 million shared ROW plan. They certainly don't have the money for a $billion plus new ROW plan.

EDIT: plus the problem of the dead $250+ million CSX grade separation at the ADM mill.

I have said it before, I think the Northern towns will get BRT light on the HOT lanes on 77 as their 'transit' improvement.[/quote. Plus no rail option will be cost efficient against any BRT type service along 77. The limited amount of projected riders whom will mostly use the service to get to & from work don't justify a billion plus investment

[ChessieCat]

Gateway would have a link via the streetcar, and isn't the plan for the proposed Red Line to build an all new track alongside NS right of way?

 

Without the $250+ Million grade separation at Graham Interlocking (ADM Mill) there is no chance in hel* of either Red Line commuter service along the O-line nor along the NCRR to Kannapolis.

[southslider]

^The indefinitely stalled grade-separation near ADM only kills all commuter rail to the north or northeast, if said rail must serve Charlotte at Gateway Station at Trade and Graham Streets. If a similar hub could be built north of the CSX line, then it is still technically feasible, and to the northeast (Concord-Kannapolis) even more so, given the history of mixed freight and passenger rail operations on the NCRR.

[ChessieCat]

^The indefinitely stalled grade-separation near ADM only kills all commuter rail to the north or northeast, if said rail must serve Charlotte at Gateway Station at Trade and Graham Streets. If a similar hub could be built north of the CSX line, then it is still technically feasible, and to the northeast (Concord-Kannapolis) even more so, given the history of mixed freight and passenger rail operations on the NCRR.

 

Agreed.  As mentioned many times here,  Dubone's proposed station at the Southeast corner of NS's Charlotte Yard is the point where all major heavy rail lines converge with the Blue Line and is therefore the most logical choice.

Edited February 27, 2015 by ChessieCat

[seth0423]

Agreed.  As mentioned many times here,  Dubone's proposed station at the Southeast corner of NS's Charlotte Yard is the point where all major heavy rail lines converge with the Blue Line and is therefore the most logical choice.

 

Well, let's at least make it more than a long tube. 

[seth0423]

I think we can have a unanimous consensus that Charlotte needs to completely rethink its long term transit plan. But on a tangent here, all of Charlotte's transit would be more successful if only we had some retail in uptown. This is leaving out a whole group of people, shoppers, that would use transit on a regular basis.

 

We need light rail to ballantyne. That is just the way it is.

We need light rail to South Park. Tyvola allignment would be great, but what about a line that runs down woodlawn, and then heads south on park? 

We need some form of rail to the airport. 25% of passengers terminating flights here doesn't seem like a lot, but really when you think about it, that's still 12.5 million passengers a year. 

 

And we need a modern hub to form it all...

[SouthEndCLT811]

I think we can have a unanimous consensus that Charlotte needs to completely rethink its long term transit plan. But on a tangent here, all of Charlotte's transit would be more successful if only we had some retail in uptown. This is leaving out a whole group of people, shoppers, that would use transit on a regular basis.

 

We need light rail to ballantyne. That is just the way it is.

We need light rail to South Park. Tyvola allignment would be great, but what about a line that runs down woodlawn, and then heads south on park? 

We need some form of rail to the airport. 25% of passengers terminating flights here doesn't seem like a lot, but really when you think about it, that's still 12.5 million passengers a year. 

 

And we need a modern hub to form it all...

 

Ha well I wasn't going to share this on the site but I got bored one day and drew up what my ideal transit would be if there were unlimited funds.  You touched on one of the routes through Southpark.

 

https://www.scribblemaps.com/create/#id=CharlotteDreamTransit&lat=35.2041587787964&lng=-80.85947209472658&z=13&t=hybrid

 

Blue Line extends through Pineville to Ballantyne

 

Green Line from the airport through Uptown and down Monroe to Matthews

 

Red line from Scaleybark Blue line station running through Southpark & Cotswold to the east side

 

Peach line spurs off the Green and runs through the W Tyvola business area and links up with the Red line at Park/Tyvola

 

Purple is the trolley service that folks were trying to get started up again in Wesley Heights

 

It was fun making this.  If only we had the money laying around to do some of these lines!

[Third Strike]

SouthEnd, your map is similar to mine. With my map, I would extend the Gold Line down the middle of Albemarle Road, running it to the park and ride at Lawyers. The Southeast line would run the same alignment as yours, except it would then spur off from the CSX ROW, to Independence Pointe Parkway (it runs parallel with US 74), like in the original Silver Line plans. This would help with ridership, since commuters off of Independence would have easy access to the line. I would also extend the northeast extension of the Blue Line to I-485, with a park and ride next to the PNC Pavilion. There could also be shuttles running from the lot to the Speedway, Concord Mills, and Concord's airport.

[ajfunder]

^Doesn't the city now own the former intermodal facility land? What if the city partnered with NCDOT and sold off the current land they own intended for Gateway Station? They could use this money to at least partially fund a new facility along the Blue Line. NCDOT is planning passenger bypass tracks through the area anyway, and this project could be altered to provide track work for the new facility.

This seems like a great funding source for a relocated Gateway Station and might help the project happen sooner.

[dubone]

Just to clarify, they own only about 1/3 of the old intermodal terminal land along N Brevard.   That now-city-owned land is specifically going to be used for a small light rail maintenance and waiting yard for the blue line.

[15895]

Ha well I wasn't going to share this on the site but I got bored one day and drew up what my ideal transit would be if there were unlimited funds. You touched on one of the routes through Southpark.

https://www.scribblemaps.com/create/#id=CharlotteDreamTransit&lat=35.2041587787964&lng=-80.85947209472658&z=13&t=hybrid

Blue Line extends through Pineville to Ballantyne

Green Line from the airport through Uptown and down Monroe to Matthews

Red line from Scaleybark Blue line station running through Southpark & Cotswold to the east side

Peach line spurs off the Green and runs through the W Tyvola business area and links up with the Red line at Park/Tyvola

Purple is the trolley service that folks were trying to get started up again in Wesley Heights

It was fun making this. If only we had the money laying around to do some of these lines!

I'd like to see the peach line share tracks with the blue line and spur off on to Tyvola though I'm not sure logistically that could work

[orulz]

Radial lines generally have pretty poor ridership. I can see a blue line spur to South Park (whether the route is on Scaleybark, Woodlawn, Tyvola, or whatever) but the long radial lines along Tyvola, Sharon Amity, etc should probably just be plain bus lines given the lack of significant density anywhere along the routes except South Park.

[kermit]

^ I don't disagree with you at all. Densities generally are not there to justify a radial route based on the traditional 3-step modeling process of ridership forecasting. However I do need to ask, when was the last radial rail transit route built in the US? I can't think of one.

 

Given the amount of suburban business district growth and the associated congestion in those areas I would think that connecting them together might yield some benefits that traditional ridership models just don't see. None of this is meant to imply that we should build a radial transit route -- that is 20-40 years in the future. But I do think some traditional assumptions about transit may need to be reevaluated.

Edited March 16, 2015 by kermit

[tozmervo]

Does the Washington/Maryland purple line count?

[kermit]

^ Not yet (since it may get cancelled by the new republican Govenor)

[birky]

Ha well I wasn't going to share this on the site but I got bored one day and drew up what my ideal transit would be if there were unlimited funds.  You touched on one of the routes through Southpark.

 

https://www.scribblemaps.com/create/#id=CharlotteDreamTransit&lat=35.2041587787964&lng=-80.85947209472658&z=13&t=hybrid

 

Blue Line extends through Pineville to Ballantyne

 

Green Line from the airport through Uptown and down Monroe to Matthews

 

Red line from Scaleybark Blue line station running through Southpark & Cotswold to the east side

 

Peach line spurs off the Green and runs through the W Tyvola business area and links up with the Red line at Park/Tyvola

 

Purple is the trolley service that folks were trying to get started up again in Wesley Heights

 

It was fun making this.  If only we had the money laying around to do some of these lines!

 

It makes sense for the Green line to be streetcar west from uptown to the airport, but does it make sense for it to be anything other than commuter rail from uptown to matthews/monroe?

 

What about a streetcar line down Queens to Southpark instead of the radial line/BL spur?

[SouthEndCLT811]

Yeah Queens works too.  In my hypothetical I was assuming Queens or more affulent neighborhoods might have more NIMBY syndrome.  But since any of these additions are doubtful to ever happen I don't think there is a wrong answer to how to draw it on a map  

Edited March 17, 2015 by SouthEndCLT811

[dcharlotte]

Does the Washington/Maryland purple line count?

 

The densities in Maryland and Charlotte are VERY, VERY different. Bethesda, Silver Spring, and other points along the line have office concentrations as large as Uptown. 

[teeg]

This afternoon I found myself wondering if CATS plans to pressure wash the CTC every 15-20 years ever?  I took my kid to the NCAA this afternoon.  The plan was Uber in to town, then CATS bus back home.  Uber was easy, clean, fun, fast.  The bus?  On time, just slightly less expensive, and while the actual bus ride home was fine, but the wait in the CTC was horrible.  Much worse than 10 years ago.   

[uptownliving]

So I haven't heard anything but I'm guessing this whole redistribution of the NC Sales Tax is going to totally phuck up CATS budget. The fallout of this for Mecklenburg is going to be widespread.

[MilZ]

So I haven't heard anything but I'm guessing this whole redistribution of the NC Sales Tax is going to totally phuck up CATS budget. The fallout of this for Mecklenburg is going to be widespread.

If that passes, the GOP will have effectively slayed the evil money-grabbing Charlotte monster. Every good broker knows to invest more in areas that don't bring in money.