Orlando Magic Entertainment Complex [Proposed]

[JFW657]

15 minutes ago, tcurry10 said:

https://www.wftv.com/news/local/orlando-planning-board-discuss-orlando-magics-proposed-entertainment-district/DASG7KVBIFEBPPJO7JHR4CTKNU/?outputType=amp
 

They've been talking about this project for the past couple of days. 

They've been saying that some local developer insiders have voiced concern over economic conditions possibly slowing it down.

Again. 

[dcluley98]

"Local developer insiders" are talking their own book. 

Of course economic conditions could slow it down. The conditions will also slow down their own pet development projects. 

Local politics BS from the other developers. 

 

The cash behind the Lincoln developments and S+ED and another I can't disclose on Rosalind are much deeper than local developers.  This chirping makes me think that they are more likely to go than not. 

Edited January 17 by dcluley98

[jrs2]

On 1/16/2024 at 8:15 PM, tcurry10 said:

https://www.wftv.com/news/local/orlando-planning-board-discuss-orlando-magics-proposed-entertainment-district/DASG7KVBIFEBPPJO7JHR4CTKNU/?outputType=amp
 

very comprehensive video report.  first phase by 2026 or so...hmmm...I guess it makes sense since its 2024 now...

[orlandocity87]

"Concerns about parking" in a seven-story garage and the only answer they had was ride-share services. No mention of Lynx, Lymmo, SunRail, or the tens of thousands of other parking spots around downtown. 

[codypet]

17 hours ago, orlandocity87 said:

"Concerns about parking" in a seven-story garage and the only answer they had was ride-share services. No mention of Lynx, Lymmo, SunRail, or the tens of thousands of other parking spots around downtown. 

The City has its largest concentration of parking in a 3 block radius of that development, a major rail station and a major bus terminal within 6 blocks and they're worried about how they're gonna get people to their development?  The property to the NW and NE is effectively vacant too and the City's planning on more parking under I-4.  Pardon me while I tune the world's smallest violin. 

[orlandouprise]

we have to have one of the most inept city councils on the planet...my god

 

[JFW657]

It'll all work out.

Everyone take a deep breath and relax. 

[sethM]

On 1/25/2024 at 8:16 AM, codypet said:

The City has its largest concentration of parking in a 3 block radius of that development, a major rail station and a major bus terminal within 6 blocks and they're worried about how they're gonna get people to their development?  The property to the NW and NE is effectively vacant too and the City's planning on more parking under I-4.  Pardon me while I tune the world's smallest violin. 

I'm just going to say it, the only reasonable way into downtown is Uber or driving. Uber is going to be at least $30 and parking is going to be at least $15. Most people have no interest in paying that to go to a restaurant or shopping area for a couple hours. 

The city should take some of that tourism money away from the Citrus Dump and subsidize parking. Long term vision would obviously be reasonable public transportation but that's going to take a long time to fix. 

Edited January 28 by sethM

[codypet]

I live close enough that instead of Ubering, I would Lime bike downtown.  But since the pandemic, but the prices of Uber and Lime have shot way up.  To get from Lake Underhill to Thornton on a Lime is easily $8-10.  Now to get downtown, I take Lynx. which is $2.

Edited January 29 by codypet

[JFW657]

Buy an electric kick scooter. 

You can get them relatively cheaply these days.

Get a good bike lock if you are planning to go inside someplace. 

[jrs2]

On 1/16/2024 at 8:50 PM, dcluley98 said:

"Local developer insiders" are talking their own book. 

Of course economic conditions could slow it down. The conditions will also slow down their own pet development projects. 

Local politics BS from the other developers. 

 

The cash behind the Lincoln developments and S+ED and another I can't disclose on Rosalind are much deeper than local developers.  This chirping makes me think that they are more likely to go than not. 

I find so much comedy in this statement...namely...about a project that was proposed before OneDaytona over a decade ago, and has yet to break ground while One Daytona is now past the initial retail and hotel and apartment and post-covid phase, and is bringing in Big Box Costco and another multi-level apartment building to densify the development even further.

I guess the "clout" of an NBA affiliate as the "anchor" or catalyst doesn't hold much water compared to a major NASCAR operation...

[dcluley98]

I find it comical that you are comparing two entirely different markets/geographical areas when you could compare to EVERY SINGLE OTHER PROPOSAL IN DT ORLANDO OTHER THAN SOCIETY ORLANDO that was delayed the past 3 years. 

[jliv]

Here’s an interesting possibility: the development is being made “shovel-ready” for a potential package deal in the near future to be sold along with the Magic, to unload the land without controversy.   They’ve sold off the Maitland Sportsplex, declined to renew Amway naming rights…nothing strikes me as the DeVos family increasing their footprint in Central Florida…. what’s next?  

There are probably some legal agreements RDV Sports has to continue to honor with the city as part of the original land deal, but it continues to strike me as dubious. Like that great “business opportunity” your new friend wants to show you during a party he’s hosting for some of his other new friends. (Don’t mind the gentleman in the suit with a big binder and case full of cleaning products).

Edited February 7 by jliv

[jrs2]

1 hour ago, dcluley98 said:

I find it comical that you are comparing two entirely different markets/geographical areas when you could compare to EVERY SINGLE OTHER PROPOSAL IN DT ORLANDO OTHER THAN SOCIETY ORLANDO that was delayed the past 3 years. 

I think it's totally appropriate:  The Magic wanted an LA Live type of venue since 2013 or earlier.  NASCAR wanted the same thing.  NASCAR and/or ISB built theirs first and opened it more than 7 years ago while all the Magic did was demo OPD and the garage fronting Church St. and feed the OBJ with BS hype articles, while in the meantime CSP I with the AC Hotel was built, and the Hilton Dual Brand was built at Livingston.

So, the downtown Orlando market called for several hundred hotel rooms (built elsewhere) and a few thousand apartment units (built elsewhere and which, coincidentally were built in the form of Artisan 420 and 520 Church, Aspire, the building at Robinson & Orange, and now Society, not to mention the apartment projects at CV which have all been built since the original proposal by The Magic).

So, the comedy isn't in my comparison, because even when you compare within the same downtown market, this group has shown they are out of their league when it comes to real estate.  Unless now you are going to tell me that it is unfair to compare it to anything but another downtown entertainment venue proposal (which doesn't really exist).

But here's the real telling stat:  Daytona on the mainland by The Speedway has never really been a hotel submarket; However, DTO is a longstanding hotel submarket for Orlando for decades.  Yet here we are in 2024 and NASCAR pretty much created a hotel submarket by the Speedway.

So what's the next thing you are going to tell me, that any comparison to any entertainment center project outside of the Parramore District is an unfair one?

[orlandocity87]

17 hours ago, jrs2 said:

I think it's totally appropriate:  The Magic wanted an LA Live type of venue since 2013 or earlier.  NASCAR wanted the same thing.  NASCAR and/or ISB built theirs first and opened it more than 7 years ago while all the Magic did was demo OPD and the garage fronting Church St. and feed the OBJ with BS hype articles, while in the meantime CSP I with the AC Hotel was built, and the Hilton Dual Brand was built at Livingston.

Not to mention, that garage included multiple Parramore-resident-owned startup businesses on the first floor. Virtually overnight their businesses were shut down just so we could have an empty lot for a decade. 

[codypet]

1 minute ago, orlandocity87 said:

Not to mention, that garage included multiple Parramore-resident-owned startup businesses on the first floor. Virtually overnight their businesses were shut down just so we could have an empty lot for a decade. 

And those businesses were propped up in grants for YEARS because the Amway Center construction had prevented access that whole time.  I'd be pissed if I owned those businesses. 

Edited February 8 by codypet

[orlandocity87]

13 minutes ago, codypet said:

And those businesses were propped up in grants for YEARS because the Amway Center construction had prevented access that whole time.  I'd be pissed if I owned those businesses. 

That, and when we hosted the NBA All-Star Weekend in 2012, they basically excluded all those businesses by putting up a big fence around the Arena and only encouraging attendees to buy from event and venue vendors. 

[jrs2]

21 hours ago, jliv said:

Here’s an interesting possibility: the development is being made “shovel-ready” for a potential package deal in the near future to be sold along with the Magic, to unload the land without controversy.   They’ve sold off the Maitland Sportsplex, declined to renew Amway naming rights…nothing strikes me as the DeVos family increasing their footprint in Central Florida…. what’s next?  

There are probably some legal agreements RDV Sports has to continue to honor with the city as part of the original land deal, but it continues to strike me as dubious. Like that great “business opportunity” your new friend wants to show you during a party he’s hosting for some of his other new friends. (Don’t mind the gentleman in the suit with a big binder and case full of cleaning products).

oh...you're thinking maybe this whole entertainment complex deal is for a package deal to unload the team to a new owner... well, that could explain why they never moved forward with any real meaningful development beyond some demo and plans being filed...

[codypet]

1 hour ago, jrs2 said:

oh...you're thinking maybe this whole entertainment complex deal is for a package deal to unload the team to a new owner... well, that could explain why they never moved forward with any real meaningful development beyond some demo and plans being filed...

That'd be interesting.  I know a guy who would be interested in buying the team too.

[jliv]

On 2/8/2024 at 5:01 PM, jrs2 said:

oh...you're thinking maybe this whole entertainment complex deal is for a package deal to unload the team to a new owner... well, that could explain why they never moved forward with any real meaningful development beyond some demo and plans being filed...

It makes sense.  It might have been an intention back in the day by RDV Sports to boost the overall value of the sports business, but now everything is in the hands of the DeVos idle heirs, who may not have the same passion as Dick Sr.  for the Magic and their host city (unless they were called the Grand Rapids Magic).

I look at how the new breed of sports owners are aggressively investing in their communities (look at Jeff Vinik in Tampa) and wish Orlando had a figure like that.  Someone with both deep pockets and a love for their community.    A team sale might actually lead to more progress with a more ambitious project.

Edited February 15 by jliv

[codypet]

Maybe retiring the 32 was an attempt to butter up our friend into buying the team?  Maaaaybbeee?

[jrs2]

5 hours ago, jliv said:

It makes sense.  It might have been an intention back in the day by RDV Sports to boost the overall value of the sports business, but now everything is in the hands of the DeVos idle heirs, who may not have the same passion as Dick Sr.  for the Magic and their host city (unless they were called the Grand Rapids Magic).

I look at how the new breed of sports owners are aggressively investing in their communities (look at Jeff Vinik in Tampa) and wish Orlando had a figure like that.  Someone with both deep pockets and a love for their community.    A team sale might actually lead to more progress with a more ambitious project.

to be fair, there is a collective of investment around there, between the Fed, Soccer people, TDT with Citrus Bowl, and Advent with the Training Center...over the past few years.  But it's not nearly enough...  Advent's partnership was big to get that facility built...

[jliv]

3 hours ago, codypet said:

Maybe retiring the 32 was an attempt to butter up our friend into buying the team?  Maaaaybbeee?

Please, no….I’m still bitter from the 90’s…

[F-L-A]

8 hours ago, jliv said:

Please, no….I’m still bitter from the 90’s…

Still beats the DeVos clan by a wide margin. 

[codypet]

Shaq has gone on record many times that in hindsight that he wished he'd never left Orlando because winning a championship here would have meant more to Orlando than the ones he got meant to LA.  Call it guilt or nostalgia or whatever, but he does have some of his heart here.   I can totally see him trying to pull something together to try to get Orlando what is deserved after 35 years of heartbreak.