Carolina Panthers Facilities

[videtur quam contuor]

 

 

 

You do if you are a municipality and realize your excitement took away your reasoning power. And then the rising bond interest rates were going to sap your tax structure to infinity and the Bubbas and Belles would see through any obfuscation when the tax rate went up, up, up. The payoff for the city and county was zero since they had no use of the facility (as far as I know).  They saw the former baseball stadium at Fort Mill exit ,which was to include additional development. Which did not, um, develop. And which for a short period included the practice facility for the Charlotte Bobcats (ahem).

6 minutes ago, RANYC said:

You don't just totally restructure the timing of cash flows on a contract like this, mid-stream, and with a total lack of humility at that.

 

[RANYC]

On 4/6/2022 at 4:55 PM, tarhoosier said:

 

 

 

You do if you are a municipality and realize your excitement took away your reasoning power. And then the rising bond interest rates were going to sap your tax structure to infinity and the Bubbas and Belles would see through any obfuscation when the tax rate went up, up, up. The payoff for the city and county was zero since they had no use of the facility (as far as I know).  They saw the former baseball stadium at Fort Mill exit ,which was to include additional development. Which did not, um, develop. And which for a short period included the practice facility for the Charlotte Bobcats (ahem).

 

Well, yes, you’re right that Rock Hill is backtracking.  Arguably, Rock Hill is hard balling.  Get tepper sports this far into construction and then get em across a barrel and try to force a restructure of cash flows.  The city is showing the world that it's not really a great contract partner.  And it's not like capitalization fell solely on Rock Hill's shoulders.  Rock Hill had county and state commitments, but its default may very well negate other tiers in the funding arrangement.  

Edited April 9, 2022 by RANYC

[Hidden Valley memory]

A 91-acre development called The Star in Frisco, TX.

This is what you hope the Panthers will strive for.  This is The Dallas Cowboys training facilities in Frisco, TX. The indoor Ford Center holds 12,000.  It hosts many events from weekly high school football to NCAA gymnastics championships. The head quarters office is on the left and the Omni Frisco hotel is on the right. The Baylor Scott & White Medical facility is to the right of the Omni. Development opposite the training facility includes bars, restaurants and the Dallas Cowboys Hall of Fame. They hit a home run.

Edited April 7, 2022 by Hidden Valley memory

[Hidden Valley memory]

Minnesota Vikings at Vikings Lake, MN

[CharlotteWkndBuzz]

The Star complex is the gold standard when it comes to these facilities I think. But honest question, do players enjoy having to travel large distances to these practice facilities. I would think having practice and workouts near the stadium help with familiarity, home field advantage, and many of the players prob live close by. The idea of them practicing uptown was cool to me.  I would walk around and near the practice fields/bubble on multiple occasions.  You walk into BOA stadium multiple times a week for workouts, it starts to feel like home. Now it’s just going to be a structure you play in on sundays. 

[InSouthPark]

3 hours ago, CharlotteWkndBuzz said:

The Star complex is the gold standard when it comes to these facilities I think. But honest question, do players enjoy having to travel large distances to these practice facilities. I would think having practice and workouts near the stadium help with familiarity, home field advantage, and many of the players prob live close by. The idea of them practicing uptown was cool to me.  I would walk around and near the practice fields/bubble on multiple occasions.  You walk into BOA stadium multiple times a week for workouts, it starts to feel like home. Now it’s just going to be a structure you play in on sundays. 

Players like Steve Smith drove from Longview to uptown every day.  TD from the Sanctuary. Peppers from Lake Norman.  
 

these guys could afford to live anywhere in the city and chose to live 30+ minute drive to the current stadium.    Sure some guys that live in south park area have a crappy commute to rock hill but they will get over it. They all drive 6 figure cars and have 7+ figure salaries.  It’s 4 days a week during the season (MWTF).  

[Reverie39]

9 hours ago, Hidden Valley memory said:

A 91-acre development called The Star in Frisco, TX.

This is what you hope the Panthers will strive for.  This is The Dallas Cowboys training facilities in Frisco, TX. The indoor Ford Center holds 12,000.  It hosts many events from weekly high school football to NCAA gymnastics championships. The head quarters office is on the left and the Omni Frisco hotel is on the right. The Baylor Scott & White Medical facility is to the right of the Omni. Development opposite the training facility includes bars, restaurants and the Dallas Cowboys Hall of Fame. They hit a home run.

Wow. Easy to see why Jerry Jones is considered one of the most successful NFL owners from a business perspective, even if he is often trashed for football reasons.

[InSouthPark]

52 minutes ago, Reverie39 said:

Wow. Easy to see why Jerry Jones is considered one of the most successful NFL owners from a business perspective, even if he is often trashed for football reasons.

Jerry Jones could put a cow turd on a roll and call it a Cowboy Burger and fans would pay $15 for it.   He built a brand 30 years ago and it's has been blind loyalty since.  Good job if you can get it!

[kermit]

This is, without a doubt, the CBJ's favorite story of the moment. No new news in the story today, but they were happy to do some editorializing on the conflict:

Quote

CBJ managing editor Erik Spanberg reported on March 15 that Rock Hill Mayor John Gettys in a public meeting the previous day said changed circumstances since the deal with the Panthers was reached “necessitate us going back to the table and working on an agreement because times have changed.”

...I've [Robert Morris, CBJ author and editor] never seen a public official try to renegotiate an approved economic development deal of any size with references to changed circumstances. In this case, it's even worse. Gettys, in a public forum cited “statements made (by the team) that, in my opinion, were not true.”

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2022/04/08/panthers-hq-project-not-close-to-resolution.html

[Norm2]

So the Panthers are saying Rock Hill tailed to issue the bonds. Rock Hill is saying the Panthers asked them not to issue the bonds even though they were ready to. Which one is actually true?

[deleted account]

On 4/7/2022 at 2:05 PM, InSouthPark said:

Jerry Jones could put a cow turd on a roll and call it a Cowboy Burger and fans would pay $15 for it.   He built a brand 30 years ago and it's has been blind loyalty since.  Good job if you can get it!

Respectfully, he bought and either burnished or tarnished (depending on your perspective) what was already the strongest brand in the league. I'm old enough to remember that they were America's Team well before anyone had ever heard of Jerry. 

[InSouthPark]

25 minutes ago, JBS said:

Respectfully, he bought and either burnished or tarnished (depending on your perspective) what was already the strongest brand in the league. I'm old enough to remember that they were America's Team well before anyone had ever heard of Jerry. 

He bought a team that was losing money and turned a name "Americas Team" into an actual brand.  You can call yourself whatever you want but he turned them truly into Americas Team with his business dealings. 

He bought a team, he built a franchise. 

[deleted account]

18 minutes ago, InSouthPark said:

He bought a team that was losing money and turned a name "Americas Team" into an actual brand.  You can call yourself whatever you want but he turned them truly into Americas Team with his business dealings. 

He bought a team, he built a franchise. 

He bought a team from an owner with major financial issues. I'd be surprised if the Cowboys weren't among the most successful teams (financially) in the 70s and 80s.  They've only won 3 playoff games in 25 years so I'd say that the existing brand and location have a lot more to do with them being the most valuable franchise than anything Jones has done. I will give him credit for protecting creeps who spy on cheerleaders in the locker room though. 

[J-Rob]

For the purposes of this thread, I am mostly interested in where the Panthers HQ will end up, and if it will be co-located with a training facility for Charlotte FC. @CLT Development, do you have any recent scoops or timelines?

[DonkeyKong]

[Mid South NC]

On 4/6/2022 at 11:38 AM, Mid South NC said:

Thanks for the post@kayman

What you said here is absolutely correct, and they clearly over leveraged themselves in the process. This is what they describe as "writing checks your @$$ nor anyone else can cash."
 

As Charlotte sits here with popcorn in hand watching the drama unfold.  

As I said previously , This is the very definition of "writing checks your @$$ nor anyone else can cash."

 

Quote of the entire project, "Don't try to bluff a billionaire" 

Edited April 9, 2022 by Mid South NC

[deleted account]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/04/05/deal-between-panthers-rock-hill-is-literally-on-the-rocks/amp/

[go_vertical]

I feel like that article unfairly paints Tepper as the unreasonable party here.  I'm like many others that feel someone with his wealth should be paying a much larger portion of a project for an entity that he owns that makes him a lot more money, but an agreement was made, ink was put to paper, and a contract was signed.  It is Rock Hill that failed to meet their end of that contract and now people are trying to paint Tepper and for some reason the entire NFL as untrustworthy partners all because he doesn't want anything to do with their new offer?  He has every right to want nothing but what was originally agreed on.  That simply isn't how contracts work. 

If your side put someone in that negotiating room that shouldn't be finalizing deals then that's on you.  You don't villanize the other side because you made a deal that you cannot honor.  This actually pissed me off a little bit because if the tables were turned and Tepper broke the contract you better believe Rock Hill would demanding their day in court.  I hope the Panthers walk away, take what is essentially a pennies-in-his-pocket loss, and start talking with Gaston or Cabarrus. 

[KJHburg]

1 hour ago, go_vertical said:

I feel like that article unfairly paints Tepper as the unreasonable party here.  I'm like many others that feel someone with his wealth should be paying a much larger portion of a project for an entity that he owns that makes him a lot more money, but an agreement was made, ink was put to paper, and a contract was signed.  It is Rock Hill that failed to meet their end of that contract and now people are trying to paint Tepper and for some reason the entire NFL as untrustworthy partners all because he doesn't want anything to do with their new offer?  He has every right to want nothing but what was originally agreed on.  That simply isn't how contracts work. 

If your side put someone in that negotiating room that shouldn't be finalizing deals then that's on you.  You don't villanize the other side because you made a deal that you cannot honor.  This actually pissed me off a little bit because if the tables were turned and Tepper broke the contract you better believe Rock Hill would demanding their day in court.  I hope the Panthers walk away, take what is essentially a pennies-in-his-pocket loss, and start talking with Gaston or Cabarrus. 

I was talking to someone about this the other day.  I would say Gaston or even Cleveland counties but not Cabarrus.  The reason is we had our own billionaire problems with Bruton Smith threaten to move the speedway out of the county many years ago.  It all calmed down and the speedway actually reduced their seating which one of the reasons they threaten to move was because they wanted money to increase their seating.   Plus Cabarrus sewer capacity issues they would likely want more manufacturing.   

I think Mecklenburg county could go for it on the land owned by the airport out on Wilkinson Blvd.  Only commercial development can occur here and it would be better than even more big box warehouses.  Plus the airport aka city owns the land. 

There is NO winners in this whole Rock Hill mess.  Not Mr Tepper who doesnt get his training center any sooner.  Suing the 2nd largest county in the region population wise is not a good PR move when you got to sell tickets for lots of events.    Rock Hill looks bad on many fronts of course incompetent leadership, future econ development projects with incentive deals etc.  It is a LOSE LOSE for both parties. 

[CharlotteWkndBuzz]

Breaking news!!! League sources state that owner David Tepper has officially filed for a name change. Sources say he is changing the NFL’s team name to the Charlotte Panthers after failed negotiations with SC. (Blue font). 

[KJHburg]

IF and I say IF Mr Tepper and Rock Hill York County state of SC can not get this to work out I have another idea.  I still think this is the best for all parties involved from a cost standpoint highway access and location closeness to Charlotte.  

HOWEVER, if this does not work out here  this is my idea.  Here is my preferred location downtown Winston Salem!  The reasons for this would be the Triad is the 2nd largest I have heard source of PSL holders for the team in both Carolinas outside of Charlotte metro.  Where?  on the vacant land downtown in the Innovation Quarter at the corner of US 52 expressway and the Salem Parkway the old Business I-40.  Or right across the Salem Parkway south of downtown NE of Old Salem on some vacant land. Tucked in the corner could be this training facility in wonderful downtown area of a city that can float some bonds to approve it.    The Triad is roaring back into the fast lane with the huge Toyota Battery plant and the Boom Supersonic aircraft plant at PTI airport.  Winston is less than 90 minutes from Charlotte easy drive and half that from Lake Norman.   Charlotte has won the Wachovia HQ, the Krispy Kreme HQ and other things and probably the ACC HQ from the Triad this would show this is a team for the Carolinas especially NC.  I am pretty sure some of that land is in Opportunity zone.  To go to the training camp would it not be nice to have a city to go to other than Rock Hill (no offense)    Not sure Cabarrus, Gaston, Iredell, Lincoln, Union would be interested in this facility or could afford it.   But Forsyth County and the city of WS could.  

I still think somehow compromise must be reached and Rock Hill is the best option for Mr Tepper and the Panthers organization.  But I think Winston should and could be considered if this effort fails.  any thoughts @jtmonk

https://www.innovationquarter.com/   Downtown Winston is already one of the strongest downtowns in the state from a residential,  office, retail perspective. 

again this is my idea IF the Rock Hill site could not be worked out which despite the problems from the city of the Rock Hill is still the best option for Mr Tepper from a cost, access perspective. 

[J-Rob]

I like the innovative thinking, but that seems too far from Charlotte for purposes of an HQ and training facilities.  For practical purposes, I feel like this would be Charlotte losing the Panthers except for gamedays.  I don't feel that way with Rock Hill, because I think of it as part of the Charlotte metro, which I don't for Winston Salem.  For any players living in Uptown or South Charlotte, they would have to likely move or get a second residence. 

 

If Rock Hill doesn't work out, I like the idea of the HQ going on airport land (assuming there is enough, I don't really know), though I don't think the incentives would line up. If it does move, I hope they put it closer to the 485 circle, rather than further away.

 

Edited April 12, 2022 by J-Rob

[#1Son]

@KJHburg Very interesting proposal.  Winston-Salem is approximately 70 miles from Bank of America Stadium while Rock Hill is less than 25 miles.  For comparison the Star facility is Texas is 30 miles from ATT Stadium.  I am not sure the staff and players would want to drive 140 miles round trip four days a week vice 50 miles.  I would have to agree with @J-Rob moving the daily operations to Winston-Salem doesn't seem very practical for a team that is supposed to be based in the Charlotte metro area.   

[DonkeyKong]

Gaston County would be a more logical landing spot for the Panthers and Charlotte FC. IMO

[deleted account]

The headquarters isn't leaving Rock Hill. Tepper may be an A-hole and may have money to burn and he may be pissed off by the change in terms. But, he has far too much time and money invested in this location and he would be alienating a significant portion of his fan base if he moves. No other location is better and any other NC location will take money from a new stadium. I'm sure Tepper wishes he had leverage but he literally has none. He's not moving the team to San Diego, Oakland, San Antonio, Sacramento or St Louis (for so many reasons), nor is he moving to London, Toronto or Mexico City. He's literally without a single decent option to move. His only option is to forsake the new facility and stay Uptown at the stadium and adjacent practice fields. The proverbial cutting off his nose to spite his face. Honestly, I'm enjoying this, a billionaire who is not going to get his way. BTW, if the HQ moves to WS I'll walk down Tryon Street naked (that's both a promise and a threat). 

Edited April 12, 2022 by JBS