The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[MontanaGuy]

21 minutes ago, BnaBreaker said:

This is another bill that doesn't mention Nashville by name but is obviously targeting Nashville.  Why do these guys from Cleveland and Portland care what Nashville does with regard to party vehicles? 

Because they can't stand the idea that Nashville is run by Democrats in the middle of a Republican state, it's just bullying plain and simple.

[Sean blackdog]

Yesterday evening. 
 Under Construction

Continue working on new Interstate 40 Interchange at Donelson Pike. 

 

Edited March 15 by Sean blackdog

[markhollin]

Mayor Freddie O'Connell released updated maps on Thursday that provide the latest status-check on developing plans to expand mass transit in Nashville.

The newly issued maps indicate the intended routes for fast-track bus service and new routes, as well as the location of some 600 traffic lights that would be better synchronized to streamline the flow of traffic. Also depicted are the stretches primed for 86 miles of new sidewalk, in a city where the vast majority of roads lack that pedestrian access.

The mayor's work-in-progress transit plan continues to call for 38 miles of bus rapid transit, or BRT, on the corridors of Dickerson Pike, Gallatin Road, Murfreesboro Pike and Nolensville Road. On most or all of those routes, the plan calls for dedicated bus lanes (for buses that today travel in lanes with other vehicles).

Discussion is ongoing about whether to designate West End Avenue for BRT or instead give it "priority" status, which would mean a "mix of dedicated bus lanes and mixed traffic," according to the new maps.

More at NBJ here:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2024/03/14/transit-route-bus-map-vote-expansion-plan-mayor.html


More maps at The Tennessean here:

https://www.tennessean.com/picture-gallery/news/local/2024/03/14/maps-show-draft-of-nashville-transit-proposal/72972025007/

[markhollin]

Update on I-40/Donelson Pike diamond interchange at The Tennessean here:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/local/2024/03/15/nashville-airport-exit-at-donelson-pike-i-40-diverging-diamond/72955853007/

Video explaining how it works:

 

[UrbanWes03]

On 3/14/2024 at 4:19 PM, markhollin said:

Mayor Freddie O'Connell released updated maps on Thursday that provide the latest status-check on developing plans to expand mass transit in Nashville.

The newly issued maps indicate the intended routes for fast-track bus service and new routes, as well as the location of some 600 traffic lights that would be better synchronized to streamline the flow of traffic. Also depicted are the stretches primed for 86 miles of new sidewalk, in a city where the vast majority of roads lack that pedestrian access.

The mayor's work-in-progress transit plan continues to call for 38 miles of bus rapid transit, or BRT, on the corridors of Dickerson Pike, Gallatin Road, Murfreesboro Pike and Nolensville Road. On most or all of those routes, the plan calls for dedicated bus lanes (for buses that today travel in lanes with other vehicles).

Discussion is ongoing about whether to designate West End Avenue for BRT or instead give it "priority" status, which would mean a "mix of dedicated bus lanes and mixed traffic," according to the new maps.

More at NBJ here:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2024/03/14/transit-route-bus-map-vote-expansion-plan-mayor.html


More maps at The Tennessean here:

https://www.tennessean.com/picture-gallery/news/local/2024/03/14/maps-show-draft-of-nashville-transit-proposal/72972025007/

I just don’t understand why they’re hesitant to put BRT on West End. I would argue that is the single highest density road in the city so why would they not prioritize that as much as possible?! Does it have to do with the state law prohibiting dedicated roads on state roads? We’re having that problem in Knoxville on Broadway with planning BRT. We have to do work arounds so that it technically doesn’t count as dedicated right of way which has been a major headache…

Side note, BRT service only every 10-15 min is kind of slow. Hopefully they can improve that pretty quickly…

Edited March 20 by UrbanWes03

[nashvylle]

14 hours ago, UrbanWes03 said:

Does it have to do with the state law prohibiting dedicated roads on state roads?

Yes, 100%. West End was chosen BRT route for The AMP and politics killed it entirely. Have BRT be successful on the selected routes and then add to West End later, IMO. 

Also, am I the only one who's having trouble deciphering the different greens?? Couldn't they have done different colors than different shades of colors?  

[PaulChinetti]

14 hours ago, UrbanWes03 said:

I just don’t understand why they’re hesitant to put BRT on West End. I would argue that is the single highest density road in the city so why would they not prioritize that as much as possible?! Does it have to do with the state law prohibiting dedicated roads on state roads? We’re having that problem in Knoxville on Broadway with planning BRT. We have to do work arounds so that it technically doesn’t count as dedicated right of way which has been a major headache…

Side note, BRT service only every 10-15 min is kind of slow. Hopefully they can improve that pretty quickly…

The businesses, special interests put tons of money into rejecting it. Because... reasons. 

Even though, it brings more business. You know only "undesirables" ride public transportation, yada yada yada, pick any NIMBY talking point. 

[japan]

2 hours ago, nashvylle said:

Yes, 100%. West End was chosen BRT route for The AMP and politics killed it entirely. Have BRT be successful on the selected routes and then add to West End later, IMO. 

Also, am I the only one who's having trouble deciphering the different greens?? Couldn't they have done different colors than different shades of colors?  

They had no choice...

Green = Environmentally Favorable

[andywildman]

They're proposing BRT on West End, but only out to 31st Ave (just past Vanderbilt). The current West End bus route (the 3) is only the 6th busiest in the city, behind:
Murfreesboro Pike (BRT proposed)
Gallatin Pike (BRT proposed)
Nolensville Pike (BRT proposed)
Dickerson Pike (BRT proposed)
and Charlotte Pike ("Transit Priority Corridor" which I interpret to mean "Bus Lanes where there's enough right-of-way width for them, mostly inside 440).

 

[markhollin]

Airport offers $6 million incentive for I-40/Donelson Pike interchange to be finished early:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/2024/03/21/nashville-airport-tdot-offer-6m-incentive-to-finish-traffic-updates/73044479007/

[markhollin]

Should people start complaining about the sales tax rate being raised for the new transit plan, and how it will hurt their pocketbook, here are two charts from The Tennessean that put it in perspective:

 

[PaulChinetti]

Those graphs are hilarious and super accurate.  And will 100% be taken out of context somehow. 

[Luvemtall]

So, in other words. It will cost a monthly average of one Starbucks coffee per household to have a formidable transit system. 

[BnaBreaker]

56 minutes ago, PaulChinetti said:

Those graphs are hilarious and super accurate.  And will 100% be taken out of context somehow. 

No doubt about it.  I have concerns about whether Nashvillians will approve this sales tax hike.  Even though the overall effect on their pocketbook will be fairly negligible, and even though it's for a very worthy cause, and even though this is arguably the most reasonable way to fund this plan, I still worry that most people will just read the first three words on the ballot "sales tax increase..." and just reflexively and thoughtlessly vote against it.   

Edited March 21 by BnaBreaker

[Bos2Nash]

While it isn't a large hike or massive day-to-day change and I can certainly afford it. To many folks, every dollar does count and while it is easy to say "that's less than a Starbucks run" that Starbucks run may be a person's weekly self-reward. The campaign is going to have their work cut out for them selling everyone on utilizing sales tax for the system rather than some of the other revenue streams available.

I think similar to the perception that "the bus" brings, having the highest combined sales tax in the country is a dubious title to have. Especially if the Downtown tax is over 10% as I asked about earlier. 

I did ask my CM about tying the 0.5% increase to transit so that it isn't vulnerable down the road and he was unsure. He did mention that to get bond financing we need to have some form of dedicated time tied to the revenue stream, but couldn't say if the 0.5% was dedicated to transit indefinitely.

[Luvemtall]

On the lines of BnaBreaker’s comment. It’s because they use the word TAX , that in it self is a no starter for way to many these days. People seem to have no problem going down to Broadway and throw down some serious cash, or spend extra to get the “bigger house” 3,000 plus sq ft for 2 people. It’s all perspective, most people will pay whatever for their self indulgence, but won’t even consider paying another penny for a tax. But then complain and beotch, that their government doesn’t care or do enough for them. A government is just the same as a corporation, there’s bills to pay , employees to care for and their pensions. They are no different then private companies raising their prices for their goods other then government needs to call it a tax. 

[PruneTracy]

20 hours ago, Bos2Nash said:

This is not exactly relevant to the transit funding in particular but it's worth noting that every other state on this list has an income tax as well. People notice that even if the sales tax is high.

[Bos2Nash]

Fair. A caveat to that is an income tax doesn't really impact people's day-to-day life per say. It is money out of their paycheck for sure, but they don't feel it at every single transaction they make. While numbers are one thing, the perception is a whole other story.

Again, only kinda pushing back on the use of sales tax, while also pointing to the challenges that we will have to overcome. Sales tax seems like the lightest lift for funding, but is it truly the right lift?

[lmc123]

23 hours ago, Bos2Nash said:

While it isn't a large hike or massive day-to-day change and I can certainly afford it. To many folks, every dollar does count and while it is easy to say "that's less than a Starbucks run" that Starbucks run may be a person's weekly self-reward. The campaign is going to have their work cut out for them selling everyone on utilizing sales tax for the system rather than some of the other revenue streams available.

I think similar to the perception that "the bus" brings, having the highest combined sales tax in the country is a dubious title to have. Especially if the Downtown tax is over 10% as I asked about earlier. 

I did ask my CM about tying the 0.5% increase to transit so that it isn't vulnerable down the road and he was unsure. He did mention that to get bond financing we need to have some form of dedicated time tied to the revenue stream, but couldn't say if the 0.5% was dedicated to transit indefinitely.

Will downtown be over 10%? Right now Davidson County is 2.25% so it'll be maxed out to 2.75%, and combined with the State makes it 9.75%.

[Luvemtall]

And by applying it to a sales tax, it spreads it out amongst everyone who purchases goods and services , including those who are visiting and using the services. Rather then a tax or revenue from just the residents of the city, ie: property taxes or wheel taxes. 

[Bos2Nash]

4 hours ago, lmc123 said:

Will downtown be over 10%? Right now Davidson County is 2.25% so it'll be maxed out to 2.75%, and combined with the State makes it 9.75%.

That is why I asked, I am not sure how it will work with Downtown already being at 9.75%. The Downtown District has an additional tax (maybe it is considered a "fee"?) that already bumps it up above the state and local sales tax. Here are two link references - Reference 1 & Reference 2 & Reference 3

So if it is just considered a "fee" does that essentially mean the sales tax when the CBID fee is included will be at 10.25%?

2 hours ago, Luvemtall said:

And by applying it to a sales tax, it spreads it out amongst everyone who purchases goods and services , including those who are visiting and using the services. Rather then a tax or revenue from just the residents of the city, ie: property taxes or wheel taxes. 

Again, the perception of the highest sales tax in the country is a dubious title to have. Also, by tagging it on to sales tax, we are saying those most vulnerable in our communities (who are most reliant on a transit system) are paying the biggest difference because they are the ones who will feel the biggest impacts. Why wouldn't we work to have a wheel tax on rental cars, ride share apps (think about cars AND scooters) and parking tax? Then you are creating a revenue stream that will generate constant money while also not impacting those who have the tightest means in our communities. 

Transit is a social program, why wouldn't we heavily weigh the social implications of each aspect to it?

[Luvemtall]

Respectfully, those that you’re suggesting will feel the biggest impact are also the ones most likely to benefit most from an improved transit system. And when broken down, an average 10 dollars per month shouldn’t break anyone. Let’s be somewhat realistic about this, Nashville is still relatively a affordable large metro and if this  small tax increase would cause you to break your bank or cause that much harm , then maybe this isn’t the best place for you

[chc3]

22 hours ago, PruneTracy said:

but it's worth noting that every other state on this list has an income tax as well.

Washington State doesn’t have an income tax.

[smeagolsfree]

I think State law caps it at 9.75% with the local option.

[Bos2Nash]

2 hours ago, smeagolsfree said:

I think State law caps it at 9.75% with the local option.

Thanks. So if that is the case, are we not collecting any additional sales tax from within the CBID with this increase? Or if the extras 0.5% collected is a "fee" instead of a tax, does that mean our CBID is collecting over 10% on every purchase. Seems weird that we would eliminate 0.5% revenue in Downtown (of all places).