Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[midtownclt]

 

 "Seems like it would be easy enough to add a second arrivals and departures to terminal A as it continues to expand"

 

 

I thought that was the original intent when the A expansion was planned  (as an international concourse).

I am not sure if there is enough room to do that now or it would be a tight fit, but great length for lots of curbside drop-off and pick-up possibly.

The problem again (mentioned many times here and in other places) is not enough curbside length.  

All those lanes fighting for the same amount of curb frontage we had before the lanes were expanded.

And the employees directing traffic insist you keep moving if you are not against the curb but there is no open curb.

They should take the lane next to the parking garage, farthest from the terminal doors, and add curbside pick up to the left as well. 

Maybe not the safest idea? 

Or make a median in one of the middle lanes, if possible, and put in an island for more pickup.

Its seems like a mess that shouldn't exist after all this money put into expansion.

 

[Temeteron]

5 hours ago, DavieNative said:

Seems like it would be easy enough to add a second arrivals and departures to terminal A as it continues to expand. Would alleviate a fair amount of traffic from the main one.

You mean concourse A? There’s only one terminal. 

[videtur quam contuor]

I departed CLT today and it appeared to me that behind the temp fencing at the departure level there was another drive/drop area ready to open. A wider area iow. Waiting for terminal completion. True?

Also, LGA has taxi touts at bag claim. We will be a destination when we have them.

[CLT2014]

15 hours ago, videtur quam contuor said:

I departed CLT today and it appeared to me that behind the temp fencing at the departure level there was another drive/drop area ready to open. A wider area iow. Waiting for terminal completion. True?

Also, LGA has taxi touts at bag claim. We will be a destination when we have them.

Yes, there are 3 lanes that are not yet open up top, but the plans is for that to host commercial vehicles, hotel shuttles, buses, et. 

[allthingsplanes]

Yeah, that's my understanding of those lanes, similar to the arrivals.  But that won't really help the situation much since they're already using the lanes downstairs now.

I just don't understand the concept of having 2 drop off lines side by side.  The people against the curb are prone to get stuck in there, and then it just helps to clog everything up.

[CLT2014]

48 minutes ago, allthingsplanes said:

Yeah, that's my understanding of those lanes, similar to the arrivals.  But that won't really help the situation much since they're already using the lanes downstairs now.

I just don't understand the concept of having 2 drop off lines side by side.  The people against the curb are prone to get stuck in there, and then it just helps to clog everything up.

Typically on the departures level there is plenty of curb space at the end (area in blue), but people panic / want to get over to the right as quickly as possible in the area in red causing congestion right at the start of the roadway. There is a mental model that people think it is going to be a further walk if they drive to the end of the roadway because they can't see there are entrances to the terminal  / doors down there too, so they try to cluster around the first door they can see as they arrive up top. 

Better signage indicating which doors are for different airlines should spread some of the traffic out as the roadway completes (such as getting the American passengers to drive towards the end). Right now almost all the passengers cluster in the first third as there isn't really any signage during construction that is easy to see which curb fronts are for different airlines, and then ironically everybody flying American has a longer walk to get to the far end as they enter through Door 1. 

The other issue is local O&D passengers tend to be skewed towards flights out of Concourse A, B, and C instead of regional flights in E (largely connecting passengers out there). If you don't need to check a bag, Checkpoint 1 is often the closest to your gate in Concourse A (all non-AA airlines) and gets you into the Atrium area fast. 

 

Once the temporary shelters are removed and construction equipment on the inner roadways are gone, it should open up visibility so people can see further down and clearly see there are four entrance doors to the terminal to not panic as much around the first door through the construction. Entrances has been shifting constantly during the construction, so I think many people just go for the first one they can find. The taller signage will also call out the airlines more prominently and should filter passengers more to the door associated with the airline they are flying, having less cars cluster at Door 1. 

The airport should consider a simple sign like this one from San Diego that had a similar problem with clustering. People started staying to the left for certain airlines because they were told to. We could do something similar and tell drivers to stay left for American, Lufthansa, Volaris, Spirit, et... that are further down so they don't cluster at Door 1 for Delta, United, Southwest, et.

Edited May 16 by CLT2014

[midtownclt]

 

I like the idea of the keep left signs and I love the length of the drop-off/pick-up area in San Diego.

Unfortunately our terminal entrance is too short and compact for that length unless the space in front of concourse A is used someday.

Again, looking at the second illustration, there are 4 lanes plus the curb lane.   PIT ROW in racing is only 2-3 lanes (haha).

If the middle lane were a pedestrian island you could have more curb space.  Not a traffic engineer so I am sure

there are many reasons to say why that wouldn't work, but something more needs to be done.

Holding out hope here once construction is complete.

 

[LKN704]

Nice to see a "sexy" destination announced: AA will start CLT-Kingstown, St. Vincent this December as a Saturday-only seasonal service. 

[LKN704]

Spirit is exiting CLT-BOS this fall. 

[KJHburg]

I have my tickets already for the first week.  Sullenberger gets ready to open!

Sullenberger Aviation Museum approaching Charlotte takeoff - Business North Carolina (businessnc.com)

[Durhamite]

1 hour ago, KJHburg said:

I have my tickets already for the first week.  Sullenberger gets ready to open!

Sullenberger Aviation Museum approaching Charlotte takeoff - Business North Carolina (businessnc.com)

I think it's cool but why isn't this thing uptown?  I mean something on the scale of the NASCAR Hall that provides an appreciation for the holistic aviation historical connection to NC (a huge marketable tourist trap). It could include everything from Piedmont/Eastern Airlines with a tribute to Kitty Hawk, etc.  I think the tourist interest/visitation would dwarf the NHOF.  It just seems some so NC style or approach to creating "tourist" traps, minimalistic and off the beaten path.  If not for ATL wanting to create a NHOF, it would have never existed in NC, definitely not to this scale.

[DonkeyKong]

5 minutes ago, Durhamite said:

I think it's cool but why isn't this thing uptown?  I mean something on the scale of the NASCAR Hall that provides an appreciation for the holistic aviation historical connection to NC (a huge marketable tourist trap). It could include everything from Piedmont/Eastern Airlines with a tribute to Kitty Hawk, etc.  I think the tourist interest/visitation would dwarf the NHOF.  It just seems some so NC style or approach to creating "tourist" traps, minimalistic and off the beaten path.  If not for ATL wanting to create a NHOF, it would have never existed in NC, definitely not to this scale.

Seems like the logistics of getting their existing exhibits and new exhibits would make it cost prohibitive to locate this uptown . Not to mention they got free land and you have the backdrop of all the airport activity.   

[Durhamite]

5 hours ago, DonkeyKong said:

Seems like the logistics of getting their existing exhibits and new exhibits would make it cost prohibitive to locate this uptown . Not to mention they got free land and you have the backdrop of all the airport activity.   

Totally understood and not to derail the thread but to that mindset, wouldn't the NHOF make more sense at the racetrack?  Anyway, going to check it out and wish it was at least more centrally located.

Edited May 28 by Durhamite

[InSouthPark]

50 minutes ago, Durhamite said:

Totally understood and not to derail the thread but to that mindset, wouldn't the NHOF make more sense at the racetrack?  Anyway, going to check it out and wish it was at least more centrally located.

The city of Charlotte owns the Nascar Hall of Fame...they weren't going to build it in the city of Concord and the city of Concord wasn't going to spend 150mil to build one 

The city already owns the land at the airport for the muesum, and they don't exactly have a have a tarmac to bring in/park some exhibits uptown.   Most air musuems are directly adjcent to a runway. 

[KJHburg]

Very excited to go next week to this new Sullenberger Aviation Museum.  

See inside Captain Sully museum in Charlotte - Axios Charlotte

[Durhamite]

On 5/28/2024 at 4:03 PM, InSouthPark said:

The city of Charlotte owns the Nascar Hall of Fame...they weren't going to build it in the city of Concord and the city of Concord wasn't going to spend 150mil to build one 

The city already owns the land at the airport for the muesum, and they don't exactly have a have a tarmac to bring in/park some exhibits uptown.   Most air musuems are directly adjcent to a runway. 

 I've been to the Museum of Flight in Seattle (airport), very nice.  The city owns a lot of land with plenty of options and do get it, a simple solution.  If they can get these types of exhibits in downtown DC, surely you jest that it's not possible in uptown Charlotte.

[TCLT]

1 hour ago, Durhamite said:

 I've been to the Museum of Flight in Seattle (airport), very nice.  The city owns a lot of land with plenty of options and do get it, a simple solution.  If they can get these types of exhibits in downtown DC, surely you jest that it's not possible in uptown Charlotte.

You can't seriously be comparing the Smithsonian to this museum. Have some sense ffs.

[Durhamite]

1 hour ago, TCLT said:

You can't seriously be comparing the Smithsonian to this museum. Have some sense ffs.

Nah, responded to the implication that getting the exhibits to an uptown location is possible and practical.  If done in DC, surely it is possible in Charlotte.  Reading is f fundamental.

[KJHburg]

Even the Smithsonian opened their expansion of the Air and Space at Dulles Airport.  Charlotte does not have the general generosity of the Federal government to make an uptown museum happen.  This was all state, city, and county-supported not Federal money. 

Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center | National Air and Space Museum (si.edu)     this by the way is fantastic museum and much bigger than the downtown DC one.  

This is the most logical place to put this museum and offers an observation area for a top 10 US airport.  

[videtur quam contuor]

There was some display/convention/show at the current Convention Center years ago and a big exhibit was a helicopter, a large one. Streets were closed and it landed on South Boulevard bridge then the rotors were removed. It was towed into the Center and I know not what happened after that. Perhaps they re-assembled the rotors in the building. It required good weather which there was.

[TCLT]

3 hours ago, Durhamite said:

Nah, responded to the implication that getting the exhibits to an uptown location is possible and practical.  If done in DC, surely it is possible in Charlotte.  Reading is f fundamental.

The Smithsonian Air and Space Museum is over 750,000 square feet. Located in Washington DC which is one of the most politically and culturally significant cities in the world. And the Institution has the financial backing of the federal government and a >$1 billion annual budget. 

The Sullenberger Aviation Museum is only 100,000 square feet and has none of the other benefits.

It is absolutely impractical to house that type of museum in uptown Charlotte. It's wild people actually believe Charlotte as a city is capable of accomplishing whatever the world's greatest cities can do. Having common sense is fundamental. 

Edited Friday at 05:10 PM by TCLT

[InSouthPark]

3 hours ago, Durhamite said:

Nah, responded to the implication that getting the exhibits to an uptown location is possible and practical.  If done in DC, surely it is possible in Charlotte.  Reading is f fundamental.

Anything is "possible" with enough money.  Practical to use a 2.5acre site uptown, build a giant one story building to house a crashed AA jet and some military aircraft that are in display in countless musuems and roadsides in America?  That $31m it cost to build this at the airport would be $150m+.

[LKN704]

AA is adding Governor's Harbour service this December - giving CLT nonstop service to six cities in the Bahamas. 

[GreenvilleSucks]

4 hours ago, LKN704 said:

AA is adding Governor's Harbour service this December - giving CLT nonstop service to six cities in the Bahamas. 

Only on Saturdays. 

[KJHburg]

From Business NC this morning:   it is easy to forget that Charlotte's air service is way bigger than it would be if we were not a hub.  Sometimes it is good to be reminded look at these comparisons between Charlotte CLT and San Antonio SAT 2 metro areas with roughly the same population.

""Benefits of Charlotte airport's hub status
The metropolitan areas of Charlotte and San Antonio, Texas, are comparative in many ways with populations of 2.6 million and 2.5 million, respectively, says Steve Neuman, vice president of global government affairs for American Airlines. One big difference: Charlotte is a hub for American Airlines, while San Antonio does not serve as a hub for any airline.

In tangible terms, that makes American Airlines’ presence in Charlotte five times larger than all of the airlines combined in San Antonio, says Neuman. American Airlines has about 700 flights daily out of Charlotte on peak days, while San Antonio has a combined total of 109 from all airlines. American Airlines has 164 destinations, compared to a combined total of 37 destinations in San Antonio, says Neuman.

“There’s two kinds of airport operations in the country,” says Neuman, “those that have major hub operations and those that wish they had major hub operations.” Neuman says he borrowed that quote from Charlotte Aviation Director Haley Gentry.

Charlotte airport’s status as a hub for American Airlines makes it a “connection factory,” which benefits the economy. The hub designation connects Charlotte to a lot of cities that otherwise would not have a demand for direct flights.

“If you’re a CEO and are thinking about where to invest and where to build jobs, you might think about Charlotte because of all the massive air service that is here because you can get your employees and your customers and whoever else wants to come to your business,” says Neuman.

American Airlines employs about 14,000 of the more than 20,000 people who work at Charlotte Douglas International Airport. Charlotte is the seventh-busiest airport in the world, and American Airlines’ second-largest hub behind Dallas-Fort Worth, Neuman said.

Neuman spoke last week in Charlotte at a meeting of the U.S. Travel Association, which highlighted the value of the visitor economy to North Carolina. In 2023, director visitor spending in North Carolina totaled a record $35.6 billion.""

and meanwhile up in the Triangle this

Raleigh-Durham International Airport growth | RDU was the fastest growing airport in the US, US Department of Transportation says - ABC11 Raleigh-Durham