Music City Center, 1.2 million sq. ft., $623 million

[producer2]

Indirectly involved enough to know projected timelines. Does not mean that it will happen that way. And I do not own property (except for the unit I live in)

[titanhog]

Indirectly involved enough to know projected timelines. Does not mean that it will happen that way. And I do not own property (except for the unit I live in)

Producer...any chance the design will produce an underground convention center with retail, offices, small meeting spaces and green spaces (parks and such) above ground? Or...is this thing likely to be a big box above ground?

[producer2]

Nothing is determined yet. It is my understanding that the city will be talking with several of the leading firms around the country for bids. With the slowdown in building I am also to understand that we may be the lucky recipients of more time and energy from some of the top people in those firms. After a few conversations i really do believe that we may be pleasantly surprised by the end result.

[smeagolsfree]

The New CC, DT passed another hurdle last night. The resolution starting the pre-construction phase has been passed and now the fun starts.

http://nashvillecitypaper.com/news.php?viewStory=58744

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...S0202/802060434

One issue is now mute. Where will the CC go? The site is officially the Sobro site.

[FromParkAveToTN]

I hope the design includes retail and dinning around the outside perimeter that is accessible from the inside of the CC and the outside so that locals can use the center even when no conventions are going on. I can vision a Cheesecake Factory and some nice retail surrounding the CC.

[samsonh]

Pre-construction activities are funded for 18-24 months according to the Tennessean article. I think a late 2009 groundbreaking is going to be the best you can hope for. And I think we will be looking at a late 2012 opening at best. It will be interesting to see how much the estimated cost rises over the next 2 years. I am guessing we will see another 10-15% expansion over the $635 million currently estimated due to unexpected costs and raw material price increases. It is painful to watch large government backed projects and hear the cost projections, knowing full well that they will come back a year later and tack on millions in "unexpected" costs that should have been foreseen.

[timmay143]

I thought I would post this link here and let everyone check it out.

http://www.themccproject.com/

If you are ever over at the Nashville Charrette forum, you have probably seen it. A few of the members have thrown together their ideas of what the new convention center could look like. This website that they have started shows a 3D model of what they have decided best fits the project. It is only a starting point, and I encourage everyone to look over it with open minds. Feedback I'm sure is welcome as long as it is civil.

I think their ideas are great and would be proud to have a center like this. One of the main problems with projects like this is it becomes a big box. I think the idea of having a main plaza in the middle that is wrapped with retail and mixed-use is a step in the right direction. BTW the main hall is located underground which provides for ample opportunity on top.

Edited March 4, 2008 by timmay143

[FromParkAveToTN]

I love it, but where will the Hotel go?

[dmillsphoto]

More than where the hotel will go, where will the convention space be? Judging by the size of it, it will only have about 240,000sqf. I realize this is only an idea, but making another Schermerhorn-style building of this size with so much courtyard space... between 5th Ave and 8th Ave, would be way too much for my eyes... I don't think it's innovative enough for SoBro...

[FromParkAveToTN]

It looks like the convention space is built into the slope of the site and most of it underground, which is pretty cool. Although, I hate to see the maintenance cost on something like that over time.

[smeagolsfree]

I think the design was an attempt to be neutral. Not necessarily a Roman Forum type building. NewTowner had a lot to do with it and put in a lot of hard work and kudos to him. I do believe this is more of a functionality issue rather than design, but I know what Newtowner likes too. He is a classical kind of guy as far as architecture goes and that can play a major role in the center if they go along with the Athens of the South theme. I believe it could be done very successfully. I am sure that this is just a suggestion on the part of the ones that put the project together and the need for pedestrian access is key from their point of view. I agree with that as well. I think as long as the design is something other than a big box that is sitting in the middle of Sobro is one key point here. I would love to see a really well designed building.

The main thing here is that a group of individuals took it upon themselves to hopefully let the powers that be that this needs to be a quality project.

The hotel is not addressed in the presentation. It will more than likely go behind the CMHofF. Speculation is that it may be around 30 to 40 stories based on the the size of the lot there. It will be at least a 1000 room hotel.

[downtown cliff]

More than where the hotel will go, where will the convention space be? Judging by the size of it, it will only have about 240,000sqf. I realize this is only an idea, but making another Schermerhorn-style building of this size with so much courtyard space... between 5th Ave and 8th Ave, would be way too much for my eyes... I don't think it's innovative enough for SoBro...

Actually the hotel is across the street. The hotel is not part of the official MCC site proposal, and thus is not part of our concept plan either. FromParkAveToTN is correct in that the slope is used to place the hall, which is the full size called for, below ground. As we say in the press release, we are not advocating any particular architectural style; the style used in the concept is to make it easier to interpret the space.

[smeagolsfree]

I think kudos are in line for downtown cliff too, who had a lot to do with the project. I know a lot of you guys worked on it.

[FromParkAveToTN]

I love what you guys have done. The design is awesome and I think the "Roman Forum type building" adds a level of class and sophistication to downtown. I can definitely see myself shopping and dinning in this development. The concept building is not intimidating at all. It has a welcoming quality about it.

[Lexy]

I think kudos are in line for downtown cliff too, who had a lot to do with the project. I know a lot of you guys worked on it.

I concur. DC, great work!

[downtown cliff]

I concur. DC, great work!

You guys are too kind. I am proud to have had a supporting role to the great work done on this project. Hopefully, Nashvillians all will demand a great CC.

[Hankster]

You guys are too kind. I am proud to have had a supporting role to the great work done on this project. Hopefully, Nashvillians all will demand a great CC.

Can you describe in a little more detail what you envision of the convention center? I also like the Roman Forum type architecture, but I can't tell where the convention space would be located, and what other features you wish the center to have.

Edited March 5, 2008 by Hankster

[titanhog]

You guys are too kind. I am proud to have had a supporting role to the great work done on this project. Hopefully, Nashvillians all will demand a great CC.

I sent the website to Butch Spyridon at the Nashville Convention and Visitors Bureau and this is his response:

"We will have an architect picked soon and this is a great idea!"

[downtown cliff]

Can you describe in a little more detail what you envision of the convention center? I also like the Roman Forum type architecture, but I can't tell where the convention space would be located, and what other features you wish the center to have.

Hi Hankster,

Do you mean beyond the basics expressed at the MCC project site:

The site chosen by our city's leadership features a dramatic slope, and this means that it would be possible and economical to sink the main hall into the land, giving it a public face on one side of the site (5th Avenue) and keeping it underground for the rest. We believe that this would be an ideal solution, as it would make the hall's roof accessible to pedestrians as a series of majestic public plazas. These public spaces should in turn should be framed by mixed-use residential and retail buildings that will enliven their edges as well as surrounding streets.

An underground hall would not decimate the street grid as a street level or above-grade Big Box might, and we believe that this is crucial to the well-being of SoBro. The two streets that traverse the site (6th and 7th Avenues) would be converted into pedestrian thoroughfares, and the possibilities for their uses are limitless: imagine casual strolling and outdoor dining, with strings of cheerful lights strewn above each street.

Some of the features of the Music City Center--namely the ballrooms and theater--could be made accessible to the public via a courtyard connecting them to the Main Plaza. Nashvillians might find a downtown theater and great, glass-enclosed ballrooms useful, even if they were only available for public use when conventions were not in town. An elevator kiosk serving the hall and loading dock below could double as a bandstand, providing a meaningful platform for the rich pagent of civic life.

Some of the other features in the concept include an innovative interior circulation pattern, a massive hall, extensive use of "glass house" structures on the plaza, and a massive skylight. I recommend you take a read of the MCC thread on the NC if you want the background of what went into the concept. It includes some floor plan concept renderings showing where the underground hall and other convention space could be located.

[ATLBrain]

Personally, I don't see this happening. Nashville's leaders may get some worthwhile ideas, but I think it will be perceived as too many frills without the real meat and potatoes of the convention center itself. This is after all a public project.

[downtown cliff]

Personally, I don't see this happening. Nashville's leaders may get some worthwhile ideas, but I think it will be perceived as too many frills without the real meat and potatoes of the convention center itself. This is after all a public project.

Not sure what you mean by without the real meat and potatoes of the convention center. That's all there as well.

[Lexy]

Not sure what you mean by without the real meat and potatoes of the convention center. That's all there as well.

Yeah me either. The CC is still there, it's just underground and at the lowest grade so that's it's not just a huge BOX standing 4 or 5 stories in the air like most convention centers in America. This makes it both functional and usable, along with being easy on the eyes, all at the same time. THAT'S UNHEARD OF NOWDAYS! LOL!!

Edited March 5, 2008 by Lexy

[ATLBrain]

My point is that the politicians and CC-backers will actually want a big box for several reasons. First, it will be something they can point to and say, "See we built a convention center". People are inherently distrustful of governments getting into the landlord business for either residential or other. A building that has any more than a convention center will appear to be that, and the politicians will want to distance themselves from anything more than a CC. Additionally, with the money earmarked to a CC, they'll be reluctant to take a portion of it for something other than a CC. Most will be afraid that it would be seen as "less of a CC" than they could get by using all the money for convention space without the extra stuff. I work with politicians, and in their minds it's about getting "just the facts" without making the task any more complicated. In other words, "The city is paying for a convention center, and that's just what they're gonna get."

[downtown cliff]

My point is that the politicians and CC-backers will actually want a big box for several reasons. First, it will be something they can point to and say, "See we built a convention center". People are inherently distrustful of governments getting into the landlord business for either residential or other. A building that has any more than a convention center will appear to be that, and the politicians will want to distance themselves from anything more than a CC. Additionally, with the money earmarked to a CC, they'll be reluctant to take a portion of it for something other than a CC. Most will be afraid that it would be seen as "less of a CC" than they could get by using all the money for convention space without the extra stuff. I work with politicians, and in their minds it's about getting "just the facts" without making the task any more complicated. In other words, "The city is paying for a convention center, and that's just what they're gonna get."

Interesting point. You may be right, but I work with politicians as well and it is also about making the electorate and the supporters happy. That is why we hope to raise expectations. It has to be sold as more than a CC. In this case, fortunately, many of our politicians have already stated that they want more than just a big box.

[producer2]

My point is that the politicians and CC-backers will actually want a big box for several reasons. First, it will be something they can point to and say, "See we built a convention center". People are inherently distrustful of governments getting into the landlord business for either residential or other. A building that has any more than a convention center will appear to be that, and the politicians will want to distance themselves from anything more than a CC. Additionally, with the money earmarked to a CC, they'll be reluctant to take a portion of it for something other than a CC. Most will be afraid that it would be seen as "less of a CC" than they could get by using all the money for convention space without the extra stuff. I work with politicians, and in their minds it's about getting "just the facts" without making the task any more complicated. In other words, "The city is paying for a convention center, and that's just what they're gonna get."

ATLBrain,

Rst assured that I and others have already been in discussions for some time with the Metro leaders of this project. They have agreed to not only meet and discuss this (the NC papers) but have thrown out the option for futher discussion with the design team as the project unfolds. Everyone involved including Metro wants this to be a world class facility. Yes there will be some monetary and site restrictions as there are in almost any project but I promise this will not be a "big box with no thought to urban plannig or architecture" development. while it will never please everyone it will blow Atlanta Away.