Music City Center, 1.2 million sq. ft., $623 million

[smeagolsfree]

Hopefully, with all of this discussion, Nashville can be an example to the rest of the nation on how to get community involvement and to have a state of the art facility that is pleasing to all sides. This is a real opportunity here, especially if our leaders are willing to listen and take action.

[ATLBrain]

ATLBrain,

Rst assured that I and others have already been in discussions for some time with the Metro leaders of this project. They have agreed to not only meet and discuss this (the NC papers) but have thrown out the option for futher discussion with the design team as the project unfolds. Everyone involved including Metro wants this to be a world class facility. Yes there will be some monetary and site restrictions as there are in almost any project but I promise this will not be a "big box with no thought to urban plannig or architecture" development. while it will never please everyone it will blow Atlanta Away.

Just telling you what I think will happen. I'm not saying that I disagree with the idea behind it, just that the politicians will shy away (even run from) the idea of anything other than a convention center.

Don't misunderstand, I think you guys did fine work, and no doubt the politicians will "engage" the community as it's the politically smart thing to do and costs virtually nothing to do. This is after all, public money, and it's always a touchy subject when public financing is concerned. I could even predict for you how this will play out: Lots of nice renderings and plans will be put forth to the public, and then the cost estimates will come. Then all of a sudden there will be vocal objections from citizens, and then the various commissions involved, and they'll look for areas to cut (aka value engineer), and somebody(s?) will complain that the mission is to build a convention center ONLY, and it must be cost-effective, etc.,etc., etc. I've seen it umpteen times before, and I'll bet you have too. You might get some nice architecture, but not with the Roman forum and apartments and retail, etc.. I'm quite sure that in the end you'll get a box.

Whether you agree with me or not, you know politicians probably as well as I do. When have they not acted this way?

Oh, and with all due respect, there's no way a piddling 350K convention hall (and that is what it's supposed to be, no?) can blow away a 1.5M convention center (not counting the Dome). So let's not get into a p***ing match on CC's.

Edited March 5, 2008 by ATLBrain

[smeagolsfree]

Hey Guys,

Try to keep the city comments out of this. I am sure both cities have and will have great CC's. Keep it civil, please.

[NewTowner]

Hello, everyone! Big thanks to all the kind words and encouragement that has been poured out for this little conceptual design project. It makes the sweat and tears all worthwhile, regardless of what ultimately happens with this consensus-building exercise!

More than where the hotel will go, where will the convention space be? Judging by the size of it, it will only have about 240,000sqf...

Cliff and Smeagolsfree are right about the hotel. It will probably be across 5th behind the Country Music Hall of Fame...a different site altogether.

The Main Hall alone is 380,000 SF. There is also loads and loads of additional square footage, in the above-ground MCC building along 5th, all dialed-in to the specific needs articulated by the Music City Center Coalition. This includes allowances for meeting rooms, ballrooms, a theater, circulation systems, etc. In short, we have included all the necessary floor space for this facility--and just in case we need more, we also built some contingency space into the scheme. For example, the mixed-use buildings between pedestrian 6th and 7th could have their upper floors given over to the MCC, and they could be connected to the main MCC building via well-designed bridges over 6th Avenue. Those bridges could be great if they are sufficiently lovely, as they could create little Gateways for pedestrians beneath, heightening the sense of "compression" as they enter the site, only to have the Main Plaza "explode" more forcefully as a grand, well-defined open space.

Somebody here mentioned that the public may balk at the idea of Metro Government developing mixed-use residential/office/retail buildings. I could not agree more. Those buildings should be sold to private developers to help offset the cost of building the Convention Center. The master plan and architectural guidelines would keep everything cohesive, but diversified ownership will help this project negotiate the fraught waters of public land development and public/private partnership. It must be a fair and democratic project, or it won't be worthy of the name Music City Center.

Edited March 5, 2008 by NewTowner

[smeagolsfree]

Those buildings should be sold to private developers to help offset the cost of building the Convention Center. The master plan and architectural guidelines would keep everything cohesive, but diversified ownership will help this project negotiate the fraught waters of public land development and public/private partnership.

That is an excellent idea for allowing additional funds for the project. Hopefully this will be considered by Metro very seriously.

[producer2]

ATL,

Sorry if I offended you it was only meant as a way of being proud of our city statement not a knock on Atlanta. You need to hold on to your hat though as this list of most popular convention Cities was established BEFORE we build a new center:

According to the annual Business and Convention Travelers Report, a

collaborative production of the Travel Industry Association of

America, the National Business Travel Association and the Institute of

Business Travel Management, the top 25 cities are as follows:

1. Chicago

2. Las Vegas

3. Washington, DC (metro area)

4. Orlando

5. Atlanta

6. Dallas

7. San Francisco

8. Nashville

9. San Diego

10. New Orleans

[jice]

Only real problem I see with the mccproject idea is the affect on the street grid. I would rather see 6th and 7th avenues remain unaffected, with buildings built around and over the top of them... just my opinion.

[ATLBrain]

No offense taken. I knew that Nashville was a popular convention destination, but I didn't realize it was in the top 10. Yes, that bodes well for the new CC. While I remain skeptical, I really do hope Nashville breaks the mold on CCs.

[NewTowner]

Only real problem I see with the mccproject idea is the affect on the street grid. I would rather see 6th and 7th avenues remain unaffected, with buildings built around and over the top of them... just my opinion.

There are plenty of good reasons to do exactly what you have said. While I think Nashville would be pleasantly surprised by the grandeur and liveliness of a solid pedestrian street or two, keeping the grid completely intact has the undeniable benefits of efficiency, functionality, and ease of navigation.

The biggest hurdle one must leap over to accomplish such a thing is structural. It would be very difficult to make those streets support vehicular traffic without absolutely stuffing the Great Hall beneath them with columns.

But, like I said--your criticism is totally valid.

[jice]

The biggest hurdle one must leap over to accomplish such a thing is structural. It would be very difficult to make those streets support vehicular traffic without absolutely stuffing the Great Hall beneath them with columns.

Hmm.. that's a good point.

Another idea would be to make the building 3 levels instead of 2. Put the Great Hall at the top, in some magnificent design. Middle would be the street level, with existing street grid running through, and retail/restaurant/private sector establishments... as well as open areas for green space. Underground could be ballrooms and what not. What do you think.. Is this possible?

Just a thought

[Hankster]

Hi Hankster,

Do you mean beyond the basics expressed at the MCC project site:

Some of the other features in the concept include an innovative interior circulation pattern, a massive hall, extensive use of "glass house" structures on the plaza, and a massive skylight. I recommend you take a read of the MCC thread on the NC if you want the background of what went into the concept. It includes some floor plan concept renderings showing where the underground hall and other convention space could be located.

Thanks for the further clarification. I really appreciate all the work you and your colleagues have done to develop this design concept. I think it's great! It definitely is out the mold of other convention centers, and I think conventioneers and Nashvillians alike would really appreciate and like the change. It's a bold and forward looking concept that I certainly hope the City fathers take very seriously. The challenge of this project is to produce the best product possible for Nashville, and that means what will please both the convention industry and the people of Nashville the most. I think your concept certainly addresses both areas. I also like the concept of including private developers as well in the project. Doing this could allow the project to expand in scope and become a real destination for all and a centerpiece for Nashville. This is very exciting stuff and let me thank you for all you work on this.

[NewTowner]

Thanks for the further clarification. I really appreciate all the work you and your colleagues have done to develop this design concept. I think it's great! It definitely is out the mold of other convention centers, and I think conventioneers and Nashvillians alike would really appreciate and like the change. It's a bold and forward looking concept that I certainly hope the City fathers take very seriously. The challenge of this project is to produce the best product possible for Nashville, and that means what will please both the convention industry and the people of Nashville the most. I think your concept certainly addresses both areas. I also like the concept of including private developers as well in the project. Doing this could allow the project to expand in scope and become a real destination for all and a centerpiece for Nashville. This is very exciting stuff and let me thank you for all you work on this.

Thank you very much!

We are all proud citizens of a wonderful town with a great future. Encouragement like yours keeps us going!

[Hankster]

Here's some rankings from Hotel-online.com. These rankings are not too shabby for a city the size of Nashville. Just think where Nashville might rank with the convention center project and Opryland projects both completed. Wow!

Top 25 Cities for Convention / Conference/Seminar Travelers

1. Chicago

2. Las Vegas

3. Washington, DC (metro area)

4. Orlando

5. Atlanta

6. Dallas

7. San Francisco

8. Nashville

9. San Diego

10. New Orleans

11. Denver

12. San Antonio

13. Phoenix-Mesa

14. Los Angeles-Long Beach

15. Boston (metro area)

16. Philadelphia

17. Tampa-St Petersburg-Clearwater, FL

18. Austin-San Marcos, TX

19. New York

20. Seattle (metro area)

21. Detroit

22. St Louis, MO

23. Riverside-San Bernardino, CA

24. Minneapolis-St Paul

25. Houston

Top 25 Cities for General

Business Travelers

1. Chicago

2. Los Angeles-Long Beach

3. Washington, DC (metro area)

4. New York

5. Atlanta

6. Houston

7. Boston (metro area)

8. Minneapolis-St. Paul

9. Dallas

10. Detroit

11. Denver

12. Phoenix-Mesa

13. St Louis, MO

14. Philadelphia

15. Seattle (metro area)

16. New Orleans

17. Tampa-St Petersburg-Clearwater, FL

18. Nashville, TN

19. Orlando

20. Las Vegas

21. Austin-San Marcos, TX

22. San Diego

23. San Francisco

24. Riverside-San Bernardino, CA

25. San Antonio, TX

[bwithers1]

NCP article about MCC Proposal

Attached is a link to WW's article in the NCP about the Music City Center proposals focusing on that submitted by our friends at the Charrette!

[jice]

NCP article about MCC Proposal

Attached is a link to WW's article in the NCP about the Music City Center proposals focusing on that submitted by our friends at the Charrette!

Good to see the NC folks getting the recognition they deserve for this project that they've undertaken. I hope the MCC planners take these ideas to heart, and expand them in a way that best fits the city.

Even though no screennames were mentioned in the article, you can definitely tell which one is NewTowner

[titanhog]

Good to see the NC folks getting the recognition they deserve for this project that they've undertaken. I hope the MCC planners take these ideas to heart, and expand them in a way that best fits the city.

Even though no screennames were mentioned in the article, you can definitely tell which one is NewTowner

I say we go ahead and just build the Charrette's design and get this over with!!

[smeagolsfree]

The city would be able to save a lot of money in the design phase for sure.

[jice]

I say we go ahead and just build the Charrette's design and get this over with!!

I definitely like the idea of getting things started asap...

I also like the NC group's design/ideas for the most part... but still think it needs to be tweaked a little... the thing that bothers me the most is closing off 6th & 7th ave's from vehicle traffic. I would probably be okay with closing off 6th, as its been that way forever at the current CC anyway... but not 7th.

[Hankster]

I definitely applaud the Nashville Charrette folks for their due diligence in pointing out ways to make the convention center project a truly exceptional project and not some big ugly box as is the case with other convention center projects across the country. I really believe Nashville will benefit from their effort. And thanks to Williams Williams for showcasing their work. It's vital that as many people as possible know about this. And finally, I totally agree with the Charrette folks that the center should go underground. Even if it costs many millions more, it will be worth far more that way to the community than the additional cost. Having it underground opens up more possibilities any one person can imagine. It's the way to go.

[franktown]

That wasn't the final design, it was just a massing study to get an idea of how it would all work. I'm glad to see some publicity on the project website!

[timmay143]

Congrats to the MCCProject!! Hope something grand comes out of this!

[East Side Urbanite]

Friends,

Just a quick thank you to NewTowner and DowntownCliff for their help in this column.

Look forward to seeing everybody Saturday, May 3, at Provence.

WW

[smeagolsfree]

Metro has picked the design company for the new CC according to the Tennessean.

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...ESS02/805140390

Conventional Wisdom, a company out of Orlando has been picked. The firm has done work on "other projects, including the McCormick Place convention center in Chicago, the Georgia World Congress Center in Atlanta and Phoenix Civic Plaza, according to bid documents released Tuesday."

According to some on the know, this project may start as soon as the first quarter of next year and we may soon know who the CC hotel company is.

At least there are still some projects slated to start in '09.

[producer2]

Metro has picked the design company for the new CC according to the Tennessean.

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...ESS02/805140390

Conventional Wisdom, a company out of Orlando has been picked. The firm has done work on "other projects, including the McCormick Place convention center in Chicago, the Georgia World Congress Center in Atlanta and Phoenix Civic Plaza, according to bid documents released Tuesday."

According to some on the know, this project may start as soon as the first quarter of next year and we may soon know who the CC hotel company is.

At least there are still some projects slated to start in '09.

Actually they are not so much the design firm as they are a company that will designate, appropriate, and assign space internally in the building. the architecural firm and contractor have not been awarded just yet but should be in the next month or so.

[smeagolsfree]

I am glad you know. I am sure there are a lot of firms to be chosen. Thanks for the input. I have not had a lot of time to keep up with all that is going on and barley time to read this forum much less anything else right now. Keep us in the loop producer.