First Ward Urban Village / North Tryon Vision Plan

[SgtCampsalot]

I figured it out. Third and Fourth Ward has Graham and Church St as car-oriented thoroughfares. First Ward only has College St, and it's not as rough. Second Ward has Third and Fourth St as thoroughfares, First Ward only has Seventh St, and it's not as rough. The roads are generally safer for biking and crossing. So, First Ward is the best ward. Let's just hope it fills in the blank spaces in a not-crappy way.

Edited December 13, 2015 by SgtCampsalot

[RiverwoodCLT]

If all the trees are planted and grow, hope it will look like the.

[dubone]

Better yet, let's start counting planted trees versus the publicly distributed plans.   Did his people scrimp on landscaping and not deliver what he was contractually obliged to?  

My distaste for Levine runs plenty deep, but I never expected him to reduce landscaping in a park that is paid for by the public for almost the entire benefit of his development interests.

 

EDIT: Great minds think alike.  I guess I didn't refresh before posting. 

[kermit]

Let me start by saying that I am a lousy inventory guy so take these numbers lightly:

From the plan posted above I got the following tree counts (omitting the trees along the rail line and the shrubs around the fountain)

• East side of 8th: 15 trees
• West side of 8th: 68 trees

When I was there this afternoon I counted:

• East side of 8th: 14 trees
• West side of 8th: 52 trees

It is _highly_ probable that I missed some trees

I was at the park during the Panthers game today and it was being used by 5-10 people, every group but one had kids in it.

The biggest design flaw I noticed is that, unlike Bearden) the park is oriented away from the skyline so the whole setting feels very ambiguous -- you don't really have a sense of place while in the park. Granted it was around 2pm so the sun discouraged looking towards the skyline.

The biggest crime is that nobody came up with the money to put a parking deck under the park -- crazy stuupid.  

[caterpillar2]

57 minutes ago, kermit said:

Let me start by saying that I am a lousy inventory guy so take these numbers lightly:

From the plan posted above I got the following tree counts (omitting the trees along the rail line and the shrubs around the fountain)

• East side of 8th: 15 trees
• West side of 8th: 68 trees

When I was there this afternoon I counted:

• East side of 8th: 14 trees
• West side of 8th: 52 trees

It is _highly_ probable that I missed some trees

I was at the park during the Panthers game today and it was being used by 5-10 people, every group but one had kids in it.

The biggest design flaw I noticed is that, unlike Bearden) the park is oriented away from the skyline so the whole setting feels very ambiguous -- you don't really have a sense of place while in the park. Granted it was around 2pm so the sun discouraged looking towards the skyline.

The biggest crime is that nobody came up with the money to put a parking deck under the park -- crazy stuupid.  

Personally, I would rather see a structure there than that silly, uninteresting park. I hope they supply plenty of benches for the homeless. It is the ideal place for them.

[tozmervo]

The dislike for First Ward Park here is totally ridiculous. It's a beautiful park that serves a different set of needs and program than Romare Bearden. There was plenty of beotching and moaning about the trees at Bearden, and just like there the trees will grow. The bushes will grow. The crowds will come. While Daniel Levine has given us plenty of opportunities to be pissed off, stop searching for things to hate at FWP, frankly it's coming off as a lot more childish than I'm accustomed to on UP.

[Deleted.]

27 minutes ago, tozmervo said:

The dislike for First Ward Park here is totally ridiculous. It's a beautiful park that serves a different set of needs and program than Romare Bearden. There was plenty of beotching and moaning about the trees at Bearden, and just like there the trees will grow. The bushes will grow. The crowds will come. While Daniel Levine has given us plenty of opportunities to be pissed off, stop searching for things to hate at FWP, frankly it's coming off as a lot more childish than I'm accustomed to on UP.

I beg to differ, I don't want to stare at concrete or grass, that will be bleached by the sun by next summer and the drought we will probably have. The only redeeming feature of this park is the water fountains. 

[Matthew.Brendan]

Spent a nice 3 hours in the park today with my kids, including a lunch intermission at 7th St Market which we walked over to. Didn't hear any complaints from them. 

[caterpillar2]

1 hour ago, tozmervo said:

The dislike for First Ward Park here is totally ridiculous. It's a beautiful park that serves a different set of needs and program than Romare Bearden. There was plenty of beotching and moaning about the trees at Bearden, and just like there the trees will grow. The bushes will grow. The crowds will come. While Daniel Levine has given us plenty of opportunities to be pissed off, stop searching for things to hate at FWP, frankly it's coming off as a lot more childish than I'm accustomed to on UP.

 

Edited December 13, 2015 by caterpillar2
Didn't wish to argue

[dubone]

It is not that far of a stretch to wonder whether they valued out some landscaping, as it is completely consistent with the risks of having a private developer deliver a public asset.  Neighborhoods that build streets privately and turn them over to the city often end up cutting many corners that require later work by the city/county once turned over.   But with those tree counts, it does seem that it is more just a case of the trees being immature instead of being reduced, so it will be definitely will be better when the landscaping grows in.  

There is no question that with the comparison being Bearden Park, FWP is no where near the same quality.  It took a while to dig up the budgets, but Bearden was an $11m project, while FWP was a $6m project.  So the projects were never going to stack up well against each other or live up to that expectation, and then development around it has its own ample reasons for not living up to comparisons.

 

As someone who has walked through this property for a decade and a half waiting for the park to be built, I am ecstatic that it is built, and I absolutely do like the built elements and it is already drawing visitors across from 7th St Station and Imaginon.  Considering that 4th Ward Park is pretty much just a greenway and Marshall Park is a showcase of 1970s civic space failures.  It is a very good park that will be a major asset assuming First Ward does develop as proposed.  

[15895]

4 hours ago, tozmervo said:

The dislike for First Ward Park here is totally ridiculous. It's a beautiful park that serves a different set of needs and program than Romare Bearden. There was plenty of beotching and moaning about the trees at Bearden, and just like there the trees will grow. The bushes will grow. The crowds will come. While Daniel Levine has given us plenty of opportunities to be pissed off, stop searching for things to hate at FWP, frankly it's coming off as a lot more childish than I'm accustomed to on UP.

 

My "dislike" (I like it, I just feel it could've been more) isn't ridiculous nor is it childish.

Elements from the Green park in II Ward would've been very welcomed here. The quirky "Charlotte: Center of the known world" sign, the little poetry swirling on the sidewalks, the quirky fish. The way the park cascades down towards College Street. Some random designs and pictures of bee's and such. 

 

 

 

 

 

The Green's elements would mesh in good with a Google showroom, Imaginon, etc.

 

I don't think I'm  unreasonable in having wanted something with unique features or more quirky. (And I'm going based off of videos and pictures I've seen: I have yet to go to this park. And to the snark that said "No one was complaining" ... of course. It's a park. A nice one at that. It's just doesn't seem memorable. Like the rocking chairs in the airport or the "Charlotte" sign in the green parking.)

Edited December 14, 2015 by AirNostrumMAD

[dubone]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/biz-columns-blogs/development/article49248165.html

Somehow I had in my mind that the land being marketed for sale was the next block north that Levine had intended to develop this block (the old comedy zone rather than the old TWELVE site.   

 

I hope the CCP Vision Plan helps spur some dreaming by out of town developers willing to take advantage of the Lynx, 7th St Market, Park, and Google all there.   It would also be nice if they could figure out a way to incorporate a radio tower on top of the development and replace the antenna tower that divides that block awkwardly. 

I have more trust in an unknown future land owner than the 'devil we know'  but it also could be a negative that it is a new era of someone obtaining the parcel but not able to turn it around into a development.    It does help solidify Levine's business strategy more as a land banker than someone wanting to develop his parcels, as it would seem that a developer could compete with the timing of his own projects beyond the current phase parking deck, modest 10th&Brevard Apartments, and modest Canopy hotel.  

I'm still quite happy if he does decide to take profits and divest some land holdings.      He would then be like DeBeers for diamonds, controlling the supply to keep the price high enough to develop with higher density.  

[dubone]

In fact, if it is the parcel between *7th* and 8th, then it is no where near the whole block that Ely drew.   Of course there is everyone's favorite Church, WorldCom owns the parcel all around the antenna tower.

I'm unclear whether Levine owns the parking lot north of the church, which is listed under "COLLEGE 8TH STREET LIMITED PARTNERSHIP LEGAL"  with an address in NEWLAND,NC 28657.  Normally Levine uses another LLC with Matthews address.   CCP's Vision plan did not show that parcel as being owned by Levine.   CBJ's master plan, which appears to be from another source rather than their own creation does show it as Levine's:

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/blog/real_estate/2015/12/with-first-ward-park-open-whats-next-for-levine.html#i1

But it also shows the odd shape that will help prevent a single superblock development. 

[SgtCampsalot]

Oh thank god, the church will stay. Good lord, I was scared for a second.

[dubone]

UPDATE:   Ely got it slightly wrong.  It IS the parcel that is the full block between 8th and *9th* with the old Fire HQ and Comedy Zone/ Time.   It is outlined in the actual HFF marketing slide.  

 

The article and map outline have been updated in the Observer.  That was confusing.  

[SgtCampsalot]

I went end-to-end on 8th St today, and it is my favorite street. From Fourth Ward housing, to the old apartment buildings and church at Tryon St, to First Ward Park.

Also, I just discovered those incredibly quaint houses on 8th St. It's interesting how they were definitely based contextually on the old SFH houses on 8th St at the end of 8th St. I love that street, it's the closest thing to an "urban neighborhood corridor" or whatever that I've seen.

[kermit]

UNCC has increased security in the uptown building due to increased public foot traffic that they attributed to the park opening. A campus police officer will be at the building during evening hours and some floors will become keycard access only. In a weird way this is kinda good news.

Sorry about threadcapping, your post reminded me about this. 8th street is pretty cool.

[SgtCampsalot]

2 minutes ago, kermit said:

Sorry about threadcapping, your post reminded me about this. 8th street is pretty cool.

LOL, s'all good. That is good news in a weird way. Plus, a solid HALF of the reason 8th St is a great corridor now is because of First Ward Park's paved portion!

[kermit]

The word from UNCC is that Levine's parking deck funds have been signed off on and a crew will be back on site in "30 days'. Completion in '18 months'.

18 months seems like a long time for a deck alone. We will see I guess.

1st ward park from 3rd floor of uncc.

 

Edited January 13, 2016 by kermit

[kermit]

7th street market and Tanks Tap were _very_ busy Wednesday at 7pm.

 

[CLTProductions]

2 hours ago, kermit said:

7th street market and Tanks Tap were _very_ busy Wednesday at 7pm.

 

Really???? That's awesome! What time do they close? I've heard they've been really picking up business lately. 

While on the topic of 7th street, Ricos Acai is opening a spot next to the sushi place. This will do REALLY well

Edited January 14, 2016 by Jayvee

[Prodev]

10 hours ago, Jayvee said:

Really???? That's awesome! What time do they close? I've heard they've been really picking up business lately. 

While on the topic of 7th street, Ricos Acai is opening a spot next to the sushi place. This will do REALLY well

Is the crepe place gone or on the other side?

[CLTProductions]

Just now, Prodev said:

Is the crepe place gone or on the other side?

The other side, tucked in the corner.

[Deleted.]

Wrong thread

Edited January 14, 2016 by Piedmont767

[jpschantilly]

Any excitement here following Levine's comments re: Treloar House in article below?

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/biz-columns-blogs/development/article72890477.html