Nashville Bits and Pieces

[smeagolsfree]

11 hours ago, MLBrumby said:

OK... I'm not firing on all brain "cylinders" as I try to remember... perhaps someone here can help me.

The Joseph (and chain?) was built by a Vandy alum (right?)

The Graduate chain was started by a Vandy alum (right?)

Were the Joseph and Graduate hotels built by the same firm? 

The Graduate was built by AJ Capital originally out of Chicago and then moved to Nashville, and the Joseph was built by Columbus based Pizutti, two different companies.

[KJHburg]

Nashville is one of the top 15 markets nationwide for apartment construction this year.

https://www.axios.com/2023/09/07/apartment-building-construction-record-high

[smeagolsfree]

The Wall of shame continues:> The Nashville Wall Of Shame

Another fine list Nashville made the list for. That could be the name of the thread, The Nashville Wall of Shame! I know these lists are subjective but this one I agree with. Pass it along to your local council person.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/9-us-cities-with-the-worst-urban-planning-do-you-live-in-one-of-them/ss-AA1gvjWo?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b6e546fecebb4ad6a2095f74fc626c02&ei=53#image=1

 

[Rick Dalton]

Congrats to new Mayor Freddie O’Connell

[markhollin]

Congrats to Freddie O'Connell (an Urban Planet Nashville contributor and attendee at our monthly Meet-Ups) on winning the run-off election yesterday to become Nashville's Mayor.  

More at The Tennessean here:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/politics/elections/2023/09/14/nashville-mayor-runoff-results-freddie-oconnell-alice-rolli/70833215007/


More at NBJ here:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2023/09/15/nashville-mayor-election-freddie-oconnell-rolli.html


More behind the Nashville Post paywall here:

https://www.nashvillepost.com/politics/elections/freddie-oconnell-wins-mayoral-race-besting-alice-rolli/article_3937f7e3-e1c1-5372-ab1a-b66a746320ae.html

 

[nashvylle]

If you are a mass transit enthusiast- buckle up (#dadjoke). Freddie has been keeping no secrets that he will be aggressively pursuing a mass transit system and have a referendum on his first term. 

[jjbradleyBrooklyn]

47 minutes ago, nashvylle said:

If you are a mass transit enthusiast- buckle up (#dadjoke). Freddie has been keeping no secrets that he will be aggressively pursuing a mass transit system and have a referendum on his first term. 

AMAZING! That was one of my questions. I was going to research his views on that this wknd. 

Thanks for calling that out. FANTASTIC news for Nashville!

[go_outside]

6 hours ago, jjbradleyBrooklyn said:

AMAZING! That was one of my questions. I was going to research his views on that this wknd. 

Thanks for calling that out. FANTASTIC news for Nashville!

After this election, we also have Angie Henderson as Vice Mayor and Quin Evans-Segall as an At-Large Council Member, who are both knowledgeable walkability/transit advocates. I'm eager to see their leadership.

[Argo]

Whose going to pay for the boondoggle. The state?

A $2+ billion football stadium.

A $1+ billion dollar performing arts center.

A multimillion dollar entertainment pavillion.

Yeah the taxpayers of the state are wearin to pay 3-digit billion dollar transit boondoggle.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Argo

[UTgrad09]

3 hours ago, Argo said:

Whose going to pay for the boondoggle. The state?

A $2+ billion football stadium.

A $1+ billion dollar performing arts center.

A multimillion dollar entertainment pavillion.

Yeah the taxpayers of the state are wearin to pay 3-digit billion dollar transit boondoggle.

Sir, this an urban development forum, not a talk radio comments page. 

[smeagolsfree]

A $1+ billion dollar performing arts center.

 

That one is on the State and private dollars. That has never been Metro. Note the name the Tennessee Performing Arts Center and it sits in a state building. The state is already allocating funds for that too.

[chris holman]

22 hours ago, nashvylle said:

If you are a mass transit enthusiast- buckle up (#dadjoke). Freddie has been keeping no secrets that he will be aggressively pursuing a mass transit system and have a referendum on his first term. 

https://www.wsmv.com/2023/09/15/nashvilles-new-mayor-talks-about-executing-transportation-plan/

 

He plans to invest in technology to reduce congestion. O’Connell said he wants more sidewalks and a way for people to get to and from the airport.

 

“You fly into most other major American cities, and you land, and you can get to the city very easily using transit,” said O’Connell.

 

Oconnell said his plan will cost a fraction of the one that failed in 2018 and one major difference is they will focus on buses, not lightrail.

[BnaBreaker]

3 hours ago, chris holman said:

https://www.wsmv.com/2023/09/15/nashvilles-new-mayor-talks-about-executing-transportation-plan/

 

He plans to invest in technology to reduce congestion. O’Connell said he wants more sidewalks and a way for people to get to and from the airport.

 

“You fly into most other major American cities, and you land, and you can get to the city very easily using transit,” said O’Connell.

 

Oconnell said his plan will cost a fraction of the one that failed in 2018 and one major difference is they will focus on buses, not lightrail.

I think that's smart.  We've got to first build a functional, reliable, and efficient transit system that people of all socioeconomic  backgrounds learn they can rely on before we go building trains everywhere.  I didn't always feel that way, and in other cities that might not be necessary.  But in Nashville more than just about any other city it's size it seems that the whole concept of mass transit is just still so foreign to so many people that it's going to take a sizable pendulum swing to even begin to develop a local culture in which mass transit is seen as a part of the picture and an option people are comfortable with.  I believe we will get there though with smart, incremental steps.  This is just not a city where we can, on this issue, just throw the baby into the pool and force it to learn to swim.  

[dragonfly]

On 9/15/2023 at 5:57 PM, Argo said:

Whose going to pay for the boondoggle. The state?

A $2+ billion football stadium.

On 9/15/2023 at 9:31 PM, UTgrad09 said:

Sir, this an urban development forum, not a talk radio comments page. 

Let us define boondoggle. How about when you build something that makes no sense, economically, practically or even from a safety standpoint.

These are vanity projects. Or feel-good projects. Or 'help me with my city envy' projects, the very definition of boondoggle. Even Brookings (nadvertainly) agrees with me:

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-10-u-s-metro-rail-systems-that-lose-the-most-money-per-passenger/

We have attorneys in Houston that specialize in rail accidents: https://attorneybrianwhite.com/houston-practice-areas/metrorail-accident-lawyer/

A Rice University prof was killed walking her bike across tracks laid where tracks shouldn't be, alongside streets. Train/motor vehicle collisions happen all the time like this one: https://abc13.com/houston-news-train-crash-metro-ambulance/13189836/

I mean really crazy. And people ride wihout paying as a rule around here, I've seen it over and over. Sucking hundreds of millions every year down the drain.

 

[BnaBreaker]

10 hours ago, dragonfly said:

Let us define boondoggle. How about when you build something that makes no sense, economically, practically or even from a safety standpoint.

These are vanity projects. Or feel-good projects. Or 'help me with my city envy' projects, the very definition of boondoggle. Even Brookings (nadvertainly) agrees with me:

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-10-u-s-metro-rail-systems-that-lose-the-most-money-per-passenger/

We have attorneys in Houston that specialize in rail accidents: https://attorneybrianwhite.com/houston-practice-areas/metrorail-accident-lawyer/

A Rice University prof was killed walking her bike across tracks laid where tracks shouldn't be, alongside streets. Train/motor vehicle collisions happen all the time like this one: https://abc13.com/houston-news-train-crash-metro-ambulance/13189836/

I mean really crazy. And people ride wihout paying as a rule around here, I've seen it over and over. Sucking hundreds of millions every year down the drain.

 

Selective logic much?  Let's talk numbers, if you insist.  It is unfortunate that that one bike rider was hit by a train.  Meanwhile however, while you focus on that, some 323 people died due to traffic fatalities in 2022 in Houston alone... Texas overall saw 4,481 traffic fatalities over that same time frame.  In the decade from 2012 to 2022 41,621 Texans perished in traffic accidents.  But it's just a "vanity project" to offer people an alternative to that, apparently... or is it just because you yourself don't use it and you're one of those folks who gets all ornery when you have to chip in a dime for something you don't directly benefit from?   Oh, and speaking of money, trust me, you don't want to know how much more is spent on roads in Houston than trains every year.  

https://www.houstontx.gov/planning/pressrelease-20230809.html

https://ftp.txdot.gov/pub/txdot-info/trf/crash_statistics/2022/a.pdf

Also just for fun, here's a little tidbit from your own article: "there is plenty of evidence that suggests government subsidies for transit might be justified: Development of transit stations has been linked to higher land values, higher office rents, and lower office vacancy rates. Mass transit also alleviates congestion for drivers."

Edited September 17, 2023 by BnaBreaker

[andywildman]

On 9/16/2023 at 11:54 PM, dragonfly said:

Let us define boondoggle. How about when you build something that makes no sense, economically, practically or even from a safety standpoint.

These are vanity projects. Or feel-good projects. Or 'help me with my city envy' projects, the very definition of boondoggle. Even Brookings (nadvertainly) agrees with me:

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-10-u-s-metro-rail-systems-that-lose-the-most-money-per-passenger/

We have attorneys in Houston that specialize in rail accidents: https://attorneybrianwhite.com/houston-practice-areas/metrorail-accident-lawyer/

A Rice University prof was killed walking her bike across tracks laid where tracks shouldn't be, alongside streets. Train/motor vehicle collisions happen all the time like this one: https://abc13.com/houston-news-train-crash-metro-ambulance/13189836/

I mean really crazy. And people ride wihout paying as a rule around here, I've seen it over and over. Sucking hundreds of millions every year down the drain.

 

Nobody tell this guy how much the state and local governments spend on asphalt for public roads.

[jmtunafish]

2 hours ago, andywildman said:

Nobody tell this guy how much the state and local governments spend on asphalt for public roads.

That money comes from the gas tax which essentially means that those who use the roads pay for them every time they fill up.  "The State" isn't fleecing sales tax money from Campbell County coal miners to build roads in Davidson County.  I have yet to see a funding mechanism for mass transit where only those who use the mass transit are the ones to pay for the entirety of it.  Mind you, I am a huge proponent of public transportation (I grew up in Hong Kong, Brussels, and Paris which have outstanding public transportation networks) but taxes in those places (well, Brussels and Paris) are extremely high.

I would love to see Nashville set up some sort of self-taxing district where the extra taxes generated would go directly towards the development of better mass transit in that district.  I don't think someone filling up her car in Newport should be funding Nashville's mass transit.

OR I would love to see a system like Hong Kong's, where the mass transit company (MTR) has a hand in the developments on and around its MTR stations and therefore needs absolutely zero subsidies from the government, and in fact it turns a profit every year.

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/mar/19/how-public-transport-actually-turns-a-profit-in-hong-kong#:~:text=The model sees the MTR,as for funding new projects.

[go_outside]

1 hour ago, jmtunafish said:

That money comes from the gas tax which essentially means that those who use the roads pay for them every time they fill up.  "The State" isn't fleecing sales tax money from Campbell County coal miners to build roads in Davidson County.  I have yet to see a funding mechanism for mass transit where only those who use the mass transit are the ones to pay for the entirety of it.  Mind you, I am a huge proponent of public transportation (I grew up in Hong Kong, Brussels, and Paris which have outstanding public transportation networks) but taxes in those places (well, Brussels and Paris) are extremely high.

I would love to see Nashville set up some sort of self-taxing district where the extra taxes generated would go directly towards the development of better mass transit in that district.  I don't think someone filling up her car in Newport should be funding Nashville's mass transit.

OR I would love to see a system like Hong Kong's, where the mass transit company (MTR) has a hand in the developments on and around its MTR stations and therefore needs absolutely zero subsidies from the government, and in fact it turns a profit every year.

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/mar/19/how-public-transport-actually-turns-a-profit-in-hong-kong#:~:text=The model sees the MTR,as for funding new projects.

We agree on some points, but I want to push back on your concern that the State would unfairly funnel Cocke or Campbell County taxes to Nashville. In reality, the subsidies work the other way around.

In 2021, Nashville generated between $1.22 and $1.80 billion more in State tax revenue than the State spent back into Nashville. Nashville and its surrounding MSA subsidize the rest of Tennessee's counties, 79 of which (out of 95 total) take more funding from the State than they contribute. (See full analysis here.)

We are a long way from needing to worry about unfairly taxing rural counties for Nashville's gain. 

[jmtunafish]

1 hour ago, go_outside said:

We agree on some points, but I want to push back on your concern that the State would unfairly funnel Cocke or Campbell County taxes to Nashville. In reality, the subsidies work the other way around.

In 2021, Nashville generated between $1.22 and $1.80 billion more in State tax revenue than the State spent back into Nashville. Nashville and its surrounding MSA subsidize the rest of Tennessee's counties, 79 of which (out of 95 total) take more funding from the State than they contribute. (See full analysis here.)

We are a long way from needing to worry about unfairly taxing rural counties for Nashville's gain. 

Oh I totally agree that these "highways to nowhere" out in the sticks are completely unnecessary and take money away from much needed road projects in the city's urban areas, and not just Nashville.  I just hope that whatever funding mechanism is proposed for Nashville's mass transit will be more like Hong Kong's MTR setup.  I think it would have a much better chance of passing and would be the envy of the country instead of just another bottomless money pit.

[smeagolsfree]

I think the rest of the state counties would cringe if the tax dollars earned by any particular county had to stay in that county by law. Then they would see where the tax dollars went and who got to spend them. All of the yahoos in the Podunk counites would really be crying wolf then. Some of these counties do not need to be counties any longer. It is time to start consolidation of counties IMO. Many of them are just a waste of money for being in existence as they are just too small now to sustain themselves. 

[markhollin]

About 43% of all Nashville Class A (luxury) housing in towers and complexes are currently offering some kind of rent concession. Quite a few are offering two months free rent.

More at The Tennessean here:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/2023/09/19/downtown-nashville-apartments-offering-free-rent-deals/70832680007/

[Bos2Nash]

18 hours ago, jmtunafish said:

That money comes from the gas tax which essentially means that those who use the roads pay for them every time they fill up.  "The State" isn't fleecing sales tax money from Campbell County coal miners to build roads in Davidson County.  I have yet to see a funding mechanism for mass transit where only those who use the mass transit are the ones to pay for the entirety of it.  Mind you, I am a huge proponent of public transportation (I grew up in Hong Kong, Brussels, and Paris which have outstanding public transportation networks) but taxes in those places (well, Brussels and Paris) are extremely high.

I would love to see Nashville set up some sort of self-taxing district where the extra taxes generated would go directly towards the development of better mass transit in that district.  I don't think someone filling up her car in Newport should be funding Nashville's mass transit.

OR I would love to see a system like Hong Kong's, where the mass transit company (MTR) has a hand in the developments on and around its MTR stations and therefore needs absolutely zero subsidies from the government, and in fact it turns a profit every year.

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/mar/19/how-public-transport-actually-turns-a-profit-in-hong-kong#:~:text=The model sees the MTR,as for funding new projects.

Except for the whole $3 billion transfer from the general fund to fund rural road projects. All the while allowing P3 projects to build private toll roads along the highway (ones that won't even fit along the highways).

Japan also turns a profit on their mass transit systems, but both Hong Kong and Japan have been investing in their systems for close to 40 to 70 years ago. No system "turns a profit" immediately, but I agree that a new system hopefully would look to the Japan's of the world for modeling a train system vision after.

2 hours ago, markhollin said:

About 43% of all Nashville Class A (luxury) housing in towers and complexes are currently offering some kind of rent concession. Quite a few are offering two months free rent.

More at The Tennessean here:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/2023/09/19/downtown-nashville-apartments-offering-free-rent-deals/70832680007/

  Funny that this is a story NOW (must be a light month lol). Pretty sure I got at least one month, possibly two months free when I moved here. Pretty common practice. 

[Baronakim]

3 hours ago, smeagolsfree said:

I think the rest of the state counties would cringe if the tax dollars earned by any particular county had to stay in that county by law. Then they would see where the tax dollars went and who got to spend them. All of the yahoos in the Podunk counites would really be crying wolf then. Some of these counties do not need to be counties any longer. It is time to start consolidation of counties IMO. Many of them are just a waste of money for being in existence as they are just too small now to sustain themselves. 

I completely agree.  The American system of City, County, State, National often IMO is redundant  and gives very unequal service.  I think consolidating City and County in a lot of cases into metropolitan regions would be much better but the transition would be difficult.  Sometimes, I think states are a bad idea as their boundries have really very little relevance to the current populations they have,  These boundries were set up hundreds of years ago by charter of other countries in Europe but changing it would be chaos.  The rise of huge metropolitan cities has very much changed the way our bicamarel system works since it was set up.  The system of state lines being unconnected to real population  centers IMO is rather awkward creating problems...and sometimes preventing conficts between metros.  An example would be Atlanta desiring water from the Tennessee River.  then there are counties out west as big as more than one small state.  I'm afraid wer are stuck with the system as much as it could be better though.

 

[MontanaGuy]

On 9/19/2023 at 7:46 AM, smeagolsfree said:

Some of these counties do not need to be counties any longer. It is time to start consolidation of counties IMO. Many of them are just a waste of money for being in existence as they are just too small now to sustain themselves. 

Definitely, Tennessee is very much like Texas where the state is divided up into little bite sized counties that often have tiny populations, especially in rural areas.   That undoubtedly leads to the duplication of services and wasted money as a result.  The problem is that over time most of these counties have established rivalries with neighboring counties and anyone in a position of power would fight to keep the status quo or else demand that they become the new center of a new larger county.  It would get ugly!    

[Bos2Nash]

I grew up in the largest county (land wise) in MA and I never saw the purpose of the county. The sheriff still exists, but I think they mainly just do prisoner transports when needed. Then again I never paid attention to the county up there haha.

I get them a bit more down here, especially when you look at the rural ones and you have county high schools and such. The northeast is dense enough where that wouldn't happen. Rather we have school districts within the county for some of the more rural towns. For example I went to a 3 town district high school. My high school gf went to a 5-town high school where the freshman class was the size of my entire high school.