Downtown Orlando Project Discussion

[gibby]

Is this common for urban drug stores?  Does the CVS in downtown Tampa have a pharmacy?

[JFW657]

Maybe they figure that if you live downtown and pay those astronomical rents you probably can't afford medication anyway.

 

[John Hargrove]

That's very strange. And very disappointing. I was looking forward to being able to fill prescriptions without making the Publix trek. 

Hopefully the other aspects of it (OTC meds, toiletries (this is a big one), small grocery items) aren't lacking too. Otherwise, they are basically building a convenience store within a few hundred feet of two 7-Elevens.

 

[JFW657]

Maybe after they've been there for awhile and more residential buildings come online they'll add a pharmacy. I'm guessing that opening a pharmacy is not an inexpensive undertaking to gamble on if you're not sure there's enough of a market there to make it profitable.

 

 

 

[sunshine]

Just drove by

[JFW657]

Just drove by what????

Looks like the aftermath of an earthquake.

 

 

[dcluley98]

That's the volcano for Universal's new Volcano Bay waterpark that is under construction.

[John Hargrove]

So, the precursor to an earthquake. Kinda.

[Jernigan]

Insomnia cookies coming to Fiat building (along with pizza brewery) 

http://thesent.nl/28II63i

[JFW657]

Insomnia Cookies eh?

Do they cause it or cure it?

 

[jrs2]

On 6/16/2016 at 9:17 PM, JFW657 said:

Maybe after they've been there for awhile and more residential buildings come online they'll add a pharmacy. I'm guessing that opening a pharmacy is not an inexpensive undertaking to gamble on if you're not sure there's enough of a market there to make it profitable.

 

I'm  not a developer, but I don't think Walgreens has enough square footage for a pharmacy at that location.  It would be like the Walgreens at I-Drive 360 I think, and that place is pretty busy notwithstanding the fact that there is a Walgreens next to Chuy's and Wyndham, and Walgreens at Vista Cay a mile or more down Universal Blvd.

Edited June 23, 2016 by jrs2

[JFW657]

4 hours ago, jrs2 said:

I'm  not a developer, but I don't think Walgreens has enough square footage for a pharmacy at that location.  It would be like the Walgreens at I-Drive 360 I think, and that place is pretty busy notwithstanding the fact that there is a Walgreens next to Chuy's and Wyndham, and Walgreens at Vista Cay a mile or more down Universal Blvd.

Seems like they could possibly lease out some pharmacy space on the 2nd floor. Maybe even take the entire 2nd floor. Have more store space + pharmacy. Expanded food section, maybe.

 

 

 

[nite owℓ]

Passed by Samsara yesterday. Saw a few people working inside one of the units - unsure if they work for the developer or a unit owner. Only one townhome left for sale, the other 4 have sold according to their website.

I hope this developer continues to contribute more projects within the downtown area once Samsara and Thornton Park Brownstones are completed.

 

 

Edited July 2, 2016 by nite owℓ

[AndyPok1]

I didn't realize Samsara and Brownstones were the same people.  Agreed that these projects are so key.  Just wish they were more affordable.  I posted before about how the exact same layout townhome/brownstones go for 350 in Little Italy in Cleveland, compared to the 575+ here, and the neighborhoods aren't THAT much different.

[UngaBungalow]

I keep telling the Kinchlas they need to get their hands on the Ivanhoe Building

[jack]

5 hours ago, AndyPok1 said:

I didn't realize Samsara and Brownstones were the same people.  Agreed that these projects are so key.  Just wish they were more affordable.  I posted before about how the exact same layout townhome/brownstones go for 350 in Little Italy in Cleveland, compared to the 575+ here, and the neighborhoods aren't THAT much different.

They are not the same developers. And you can't compare Cleveland with Orlando. 

[AndyPok1]

3 hours ago, jack said:

They are not the same developers. And you can't compare Cleveland with Orlando. 

The previous post inferred they were, hence my confusion.

And while I don't think you can make a direct comparison, I think a reasonable one can be made when you make inferences.  Both metro areas of around 2mil,  Cleveland has 3 professional sports, Orlando has 2.  Cleveland has a substantial rail network, Orlando is building one.  While Cleveland has probably hit its new baseline, and Orlando is having spectacular growth awaiting a time when we level out, I don't think that accounts for a 65% increase, especially being that Cleveland is much more mature of a city.

[HankStrong]

As much as I dislike Cleveland sports, AndyPok's comparison is quite valid.  Orlando wins the weather.  Cleveland is a much more mature city.  Otherwise, there are a lot of similarities in stats.

The rates should be more comparable. 

[sunshine]

I think even downtown Atlanta has better and more affordable pricing than Orlando.

[metal93]

I find that housing prices and rents in general are significantly higher in Orlando than in other comparable cities and/or metro areas. The prices lead one to believe that this is a big city, which I find Orlando likes to fancy itself as, instead of the mid-sized city it really is, with a very large metro area. There's even been some recent news pieces of us being ranked among the worst in terms of affordable housing stock for example.

[Dale]

Yeah, never got the pricing. I rented a nice apt, in Charlotte, in a ritzy area of town for under 1K.

[jack]

I am thinking in terms of real estate. Construction costs are different, we have more of a strain on quality laborers. That all adds up to higher development costs. Cleveland is a mature city with more renovations vs ground up projects. Material prices are different. Building codes are different which equals higher costs. Site development costs, etc. 

 

Just looking at salaries and populations sizes will not give  you a complete picture. 

[GTR]

On June 29, 2016 at 3:11 PM, nite owℓ said:

Passed by Samsara yesterday. Saw a few people working inside one of the units - unsure if they work for the developer or a unit owner. Only one townhome left for sale, the other 4 have sold according to their website.

I hope this developer continues to contribute more projects within the downtown area once Samsara and Thornton Park Brownstones are completed.

 

 

Samsara is a wonderful concept, but was very unimpressed with the execution of the construction when I was shopping for a pre-construction unit and toured the open house.  Seems that is a theme with this developer from what I've heard - beautiful to look at but good luck with the quality. Kinda the exact opposite of the Brownstones. Would be fine if the prices where about 25% lower, but absurd prices to charge for amateur hour construction.

Edited July 1, 2016 by GTR

[alex]

One big reason for the high rents in Orlando is that so much of our housing is new. And for new multifamily, developers only build in the 200 to 300 unit range. That amount is the sweet spot for the numbers to work: developers have to balance very high parking requirements (garage constructions alone costs $10k per space, often a substantial amount of the overall construction costs) and the amenities people expect (pool, gym, lobby, game room, lounge, etc.). On top of that, they throw in some granite countertops and call it "luxury" to charge even more.

Because of this, we're not seeing 1) new infill apartment complexes built on smaller lots in the 20 to 100 unit range and 2) simple apartments. I think there's a huge unmet need for simpler apartments, by which I mean an apartment without "luxury" finishes, pool, gym, or parking spaces. Obviously, we're still a ways from building apartments downtown without parking (Miami just recently started), but hopefully the student housing and affordable housing in Creative Village will act as a model for this type of apartment building.

When something smaller does come along, it's usually a very rare find. How many townhouses/brownstones are there downtown? How many converted lofts and churches are there downtown? Older cities, especially up north, have a huge stock of pre-war rowhouses and warehouses, which we just don't have.

tl;dr We're not affordable because we mostly have brand-new, giant, amenity-rich housing complexes while not having any old apartment buildings.

[Jernigan]

Orlando Central update - 6/27 requested an extension on variance for parking requirements.    I had believed this project was just a proposal to help sell the land, and it may still be.  Just wanted to share