Charlotte's Light Rail: Lynx Blue Line

[ArchiCLT]

In what century is CATS/CDOT planning to repair the utility boxes at the Tom Hunter and Owen intersections? These have been damaged for several years now. The black paint has also been chipping off the fencing at the Tom Hunter Station. Does CATS/CDOT not have a process to maintain what they already have?

Photos below at Tom Hunter Road, 3/21/23.

[Durhamite]

5 hours ago, ArchiCLT said:

In what century is CATS/CDOT planning to repair the utility boxes at the Tom Hunter and Owen intersections? These have been damaged for several years now. The black paint has also been chipping off the fencing at the Tom Hunter Station. Does CATS/CDOT not have a process to maintain what they already have?

Photos below at Tom Hunter Road, 3/21/23.

Is this thing owned by CATs or Utility? It’s metered, but what the hell is it?

Edited April 13, 2023 by Durhamite

[stw52]

Does CATS/CDOT not have a process to maintain what they already have?


Clearly not as demonstrated with their trains.

[RANYC]

It’s been a hectic day.  I finally have a break and checked in here to see if anyone had posted a reaction to the John Lewis interview with Charlotte Axios.  I guess not yet.  

In the interview, John blames the city’s procurement bureaucracy and centralization as causing the delays in maintenance funding delays.  Apparently, procurement falls under Brent Cagle.  

Im getting really fed up with Marcus Jones.  I can tell he sees his deputies as a scapegoat buffer as he keeps his hands clean and clear. 

Edited April 20, 2023 by RANYC

[kermit]

^ Tariq is not a fan of Lewis:

Thanks for pointing to the interview. I gotta say, I thought it was the bosses’ job to raise some hell when budget requests don’t get acted on. Even Lewis makes it sound like he just put in the requests and then just shrugged and sat on his hands.

Edited April 20, 2023 by kermit

[kermit]

Meanwhile in Baltimore:

 

[Durhamite]

2 hours ago, kermit said:

^ Tariq is not a fan of Lewis:

Thanks for pointing to the interview. I gotta say, I thought it was the bosses’ job to raise some hell when budget requests don’t get acted on. Even Lewis makes it sound like he just put in the requests and then just shrugged and sat on his hands.

And this jackass doesn’t think he didn’t raise hell? I think Lewis simply said to hell with this, greener pastures elsewhere.  I truly think a lot of it is sunbelt thought leadership and unrealistic expectations, requesting to deliver a premium product on a shoestring budget…it’s just not gonna happen post pandemic and was already challenging pre pandemic. 
 

The entire country was a dumpster fire the last 3 years…wtf?  Service is still lousy most places.

[15895]

Edit .

Edited April 21, 2023 by AirNostrumMAD

[Reverie39]

16 hours ago, kermit said:

Meanwhile in Baltimore:

 

Maryland as a whole seems on top of their game with transit right now. I just took a look at Baltimore light rail - man that is a long line. Plus they have a small subway line through the city too, as well as two or three MARC commuter lines. Given that Baltimore is nearly identical to Charlotte in metro population, it should be an indication of what is possible in Charlotte (though there are differences - Baltimore is built denser and has a much larger city [DC] nearby which helps drive things like the commuter rail). Still, I think it's a good comparison to set goals.

[DCMetroRaleigh]

8 hours ago, Reverie39 said:

Maryland as a whole seems on top of their game with transit right now. I just took a look at Baltimore light rail - man that is a long line. Plus they have a small subway line through the city too, as well as two or three MARC commuter lines. Given that Baltimore is nearly identical to Charlotte in metro population, it should be an indication of what is possible in Charlotte (though there are differences - Baltimore is built denser and has a much larger city [DC] nearby which helps drive things like the commuter rail). Still, I think it's a good comparison to set goals.

And Maryland has a progressive government that is only getting more progressive and pro-urban.

[elrodvt]

Funny how that goes together.

Hey at least our GA is legislating pro gun, anti lgbt and preventing every child getting trophy's in sports tho! 

[15895]

4 minutes ago, elrodvt said:

Funny how that goes together.

Hey at least our GA is legislating pro gun, anti lgbt and preventing every child getting trophy's in sports tho! 

I’d take all that & more in the world to have 0% corporate tax rate so GrubHub would issue an article ranking us among the most pro-business friendly areas in the nation.

Nothing more scary than someone saying “I’m from the government and here to build schools, park and adequate infrastructure.” 

Edited April 21, 2023 by AirNostrumMAD

[elrodvt]

I'm not sure what you're saying?

 

[15895]

5 minutes ago, elrodvt said:

I'm not sure what you're saying?

 

I just meant people are willing to deal with all the anti LGBT, MAGA stuff all day long so long as at the end of the day, taxes are low.

NC is supposed to have 0% corporate Tax Rate. And that’s worth more than anything else, (including insurrection & failed coupe attempts). I get preferring low income taxes etc but I don’t get why some people are so pressed about 0% corporate taxes when taxes pay for our roads, schools, mass transit; etc. 

[Desert Power]

4 derailments in the last year? This is inexcusable.

https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/cats-says-another-light-rail-car-derailed-4th-since-may-2022/CUFQIINIMRCHNBUNVOFBGJDH6M/

 

[CharlotteWkndBuzz]

Every Cats train will require the device below (blue font, kinda)  

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Co6LczvJWME/?igshid=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

Seriously though, the last reported derailment was going <5mph in its own rail yard bc of the same bearing issue.  These are obviously not safe up to the 30mph limit like the interim said they were. What if another train bearing freezes up on top of one of the many bridges? What’s going to move the needle to wake ppl up in Cats? Injuries? Someone have to die first? Just shut the whole damn thing down before it’s too late…hyperbole but repairs need to be done asap. Light rail should be free to all users bc we’re basically riding in a vehicle that hasn’t passed inspection and is a liability. 

Edited May 13, 2023 by CharlotteWkndBuzz

[Desert Power]

14 hours ago, CharlotteWkndBuzz said:

Every Cats train will require the device below (blue font, kinda)  

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Co6LczvJWME/?igshid=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

Seriously though, the last reported derailment was going <5mph in its own rail yard bc of the same bearing issue.  These are obviously not safe up to the 30mph limit like the interim said they were. What if another train bearing freezes up on top of one of the many bridges? What’s going to move the needle to wake ppl up in Cats? Injuries? Someone have to die first? Just shut the whole damn thing down before it’s too late. Light rail should be free to all users bc we’re basically riding in a vehicle that hasn’t passed inspection and is a liability. 

Charlotte's leadership is busy trying to hand hundreds of millions to billionaires so we can have more sports here. They cannot be bothered by obvious safety issues with their only mass transit line.

[RANYC]

If one wants to go by Federal Railroad Administration data, train derailments are quite common.  Across the US, there were 1340 in 2019, 1115 in 2020, 1100 in 2021, and 1182 in 2022.  They rarely result in major injury.  Crashes, collisions are much worse.  Denver dealing with a recent and severe derailment incident after an operator fell asleep and was speeding.  Sacramento also has news of one from March. 

Charlotte's line has had a few incidents in the past year.  Should we stop doing economic development deals and making investments because our transit line is experiencing incidents that are common to train systems?  International tennis tournament can come here generating an estimated 275 million in new spending and our government skims off the top sales taxes and hotel taxes and other taxes on things like car rentals, so perhaps 25 million a year in taxes, not to mention the revenue to local businesses and their demand to employ our people?  And our part in this is perhaps an upfront cost that has a 5-year breakeven just from taxes, not to mention public use as a massive new park amenity likely to significantly boost our park rankings.

I'm hopeful we can deal with CATS while taking advantage of the opportunity to woo a prestigious tournament that heretofore hasn't left its current location in 120 years.  Not to say I'm 100% on board with the tennis complex as proposed.  River District lands were pristine forests along a riverbank. I shudder to think of the forest clear-cutting and destruction along the river, all to set 100 acres for accommodating 2 weeks of visitors...when the tree destruction is permanent.

09 Derailments	1,340	1,115	1,100	1,182

https://safetydata.fra.dot.gov/officeofsafety/publicsite/summary.aspx

https://www.9news.com/article/news/local/rtd-w-line-crash-derail-golden-sleep-operator/73-912b08f2-5225-4d30-a7b8-4471de1810e6

https://www.kcra.com/article/sacrt-light-rail-train-derailment-fire-department-says/43402696

 

Edited May 14, 2023 by RANYC

[15895]

5 hours ago, RANYC said:

If one wants to go by Federal Railroad Administration data, train derailments are quite common.  Across the US, there were 1340 in 2019, 1115 in 2020, 1100 in 2021, and 1182 in 2022.  They rarely result in major injury.  Crashes, collisions are much worse.  Denver dealing with a recent and severe derailment incident after an operator fell asleep and was speeding.  Sacramento also has news of one from March. 

Charlotte's line has had a few incidents in the past year.  Should we stop doing economic development deals and making investments because our transit line is experiencing incidents that are common to train systems?  International tennis tournament can come here generating an estimated 275 million in new spending and our government skims off the top sales taxes and hotel taxes and other taxes on things like car rentals, so perhaps 25 million a year in taxes, not to mention the revenue to local businesses and their demand to employ our people?  And our part in this is perhaps an upfront cost that has a 5-year breakeven just from taxes, not to mention public use as a massive new park amenity likely to significantly boost our park rankings.

I'm hopeful we can deal with CATS while taking advantage of the opportunity to woo a prestigious tournament that heretofore hasn't left its current location in 120 years.  Not to say I'm 100% on board with the tennis complex as proposed.  River District lands were pristine forests along a riverbank. I shudder to think of the forest clear-cutting and destruction along the river, all to set 100 acres for accommodating 2 weeks of visitors...when the tree destruction is permanent.

09 Derailments	1,340	1,115	1,100	1,182

https://safetydata.fra.dot.gov/officeofsafety/publicsite/summary.aspx

https://www.9news.com/article/news/local/rtd-w-line-crash-derail-golden-sleep-operator/73-912b08f2-5225-4d30-a7b8-4471de1810e6

https://www.kcra.com/article/sacrt-light-rail-train-derailment-fire-department-says/43402696

 

An operator falling asleep and colliding with vehicles has nothing to do with CATS in this matter. Crashes and collisions too are actually pretty irrelevant to the CATS issue. Very whataboutism

4 derailments in a year due to wheel things or whatever, could leave to severe & prolonged service disruptions. Whether someone in Denver fell asleep driving a train or not. 
 

WMATA had one minor derailment with no injuries and for an entire *year* the bulk of WMATA’s fleet of the newest trains (7000 series) were pulled out of service. It was October 2021 and they’re still just rolling in more and all it is was a stupid wheel thing that they never figured out. They just has to measure wheelcalignments or something and eventually had to purchase wheel measuring gauges. Seemed complete overkill. At the worst, frequencies were every 45 minutes (a system where some lines are every 6 minutes, where 3 lines are shared every 2-3 minutes, green every 8 minutes, where two lines share every 5 minutes) 

Then you have Boston who too has had massive service disruptions, I think one of their lines were closed for a while, I think recently the speed limit on a line was like 10 mph or something causing delays. I think the Boston situation is a little more similar to Charlotte so maybe there’s lessons to be gleaned there with their Orange and green line messes. 

Yes, derailments happen. But if it’s systemic, or wheel related etc. and any other oversight agency could get involved, it’s a nightmare so. It’s not so much “safety” that would make me nervous, it’s if things aren’t properly being disclosed, handled, lack of transparency, etc and another authority steps in and does some draconian measures not to mention the cost. What If the blue line has to be closed for an extended period until an investigation is planned and conducted? Kinda makes a Denver train driver falling asleep feel pretty irrelevant if you’re staring at months of no or severely limited blue line service because you caught the eye of safety regulators.

Edited May 14, 2023 by AirNostrumMAD

[RANYC]

6 hours ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

An operator falling asleep and colliding with vehicles has nothing to do with CATS in this matter. Crashes and collisions too are actually pretty irrelevant to the CATS issue. Very whataboutism

4 derailments in a year due to wheel things or whatever, could leave to severe & prolonged service disruptions. Whether someone in Denver fell asleep driving a train or not. 
 

WMATA had one minor derailment with no injuries and for an entire *year* the bulk of WMATA’s fleet of the newest trains (7000 series) were pulled out of service. It was October 2021 and they’re still just rolling in more and all it is was a stupid wheel thing that they never figured out. They just has to measure wheelcalignments or something and eventually had to purchase wheel measuring gauges. Seemed complete overkill. At the worst, frequencies were every 45 minutes (a system where some lines are every 6 minutes, where 3 lines are shared every 2-3 minutes, green every 8 minutes, where two lines share every 5 minutes) 

Then you have Boston who too has had massive service disruptions, I think one of their lines were closed for a while, I think recently the speed limit on a line was like 10 mph or something causing delays. I think the Boston situation is a little more similar to Charlotte so maybe there’s lessons to be gleaned there with their Orange and green line messes. 

Yes, derailments happen. But if it’s systemic, or wheel related etc. and any other oversight agency could get involved, it’s a nightmare so. It’s not so much “safety” that would make me nervous, it’s if things aren’t properly being disclosed, handled, lack of transparency, etc and another authority steps in and does some draconian measures not to mention the cost. What If the blue line has to be closed for an extended period until an investigation is planned and conducted? Kinda makes a Denver train driver falling asleep feel pretty irrelevant if you’re staring at months of no or severely limited blue line service because you caught the eye of safety regulators.

HAHA, so you decided to look past the opening sentence of my post conveying that derailments are rather common based on data, and to look past the derailment numbers which have consistently placed such derailment incidents over a 1000 nationally, just so you could find something you could be tonally contentious about.  Charlotte has, thus far, avoided a derailment crisis on par with the recent incident in Denver even though NCDOT has cited the system for under-staffing operations, so perhaps such avoidance is a statement to some measure of superior management.  But again, the broader point is that incidents happen and are not a reason for singling out CATS as some model of management failure.  No one is denying that CATS has its issues like many systems in the country, but the constant CATS lambasting is feeding a negative feedback loop that certainly can't be helping CATS recruit decent-quality talent or improve morale of existing talent, and this negative loop is being largely fed lately by an incident that turns out to be fairly common.

Across so many of your posts, it's such a thrill to hear that you find so many aspects of DC/Northern VA life to be so superior and so imitable.  On how WMATA dealt with its "one minor derailment," perhaps we should explore how CATS can line up $14 billion in capital improvements over 5 years funded by 2 states and the standalone city jurisdiction housing the government of the world's superpower, not to mention direct funding from the federal government north of $2bn.

Edited May 14, 2023 by RANYC

[15895]

2 hours ago, RANYC said:

HAHA, so you decided to look past the opening sentence of my post conveying that derailments are rather common based on data, and to look past the derailment numbers which have consistently placed such derailment incidents over a 1000 nationally, just so you could find something you could be tonally contentious about.  Charlotte has, thus far, avoided a derailment crisis on par with the recent incident in Denver even though NCDOT has cited the system for under-staffing operations, so perhaps such avoidance is a statement to some measure of superior management.  But again, the broader point is that incidents happen and are not a reason for singling out CATS as some model of management failure.  No one is denying that CATS doesn't have its issues like many systems in the country, but the constant CATS lambasting is feeding a negative feedback loop that certainly can't be helping CATS recruit decent-quality talent or improve morale of existing talent, and this negative loop is being largely fed lately by an incident that turns out to be fairly common.

Across so many of your posts, it's such a thrill to hear that you find so many aspects of DC/Northern VA life to be so superior and so imitable.  On how WMATA dealt with its "one minor derailment," perhaps we should explore how CATS can line up $14 billion in capital improvements over 5 years funded by 2 states and the standalone city jurisdiction housing the government of the world's superpower, not to mention direct funding from the federal government north of $2bn.

But this thread is about CATS, in Charlotte… Of course its problems are going to be discussed more than other cities in this thread unless you Just ignore it…. What else is there to talk about the blue line recently? Before you mention me talking about Boston & DC which both just had wheel issues that caused major shut downs and crippled one of the two for over a year which is a lot more relevant than a driver falling asleep. You brought up Denver - specifically a train driver that fell asleep. To me, that is just different than potential and unknown defects in the wheels of light rail vehicles. 

And to address the DC area being “superior”, F every time one of y’all mention me acting DC is superior because y’all crap on NY, San Francisco, Portland all the time, just a few post ago you called downtown Dallas depressing compared to CLT etc. some of y’all constantly crap on Raleigh and act like it’s a 2 stop light town, Etc. So let’s not do this “oh, he acts like DC/xyz city is superior” - it’s such crap. If I do it, it’s a lot less than the superiority vibes (of Charlotte) some of y’all give off. 

I don’t know how you got superiority of WMATA from my post when I literally said it crippled the agency for *over a year* in October 2021 and they never figured out why and to this day, they’re still adjusting frequencies up - still unknown as to the cause. An entire year, over a minor derailment of unbearable frequency with no extra bus service,  etc. Months of “we don’t know” and incompetency. And I criticized a lot. I even wrote a letter, probably useless, to our shadow representative and I celebrated when the former GM left when the derailment suspension of most of the fleet was offline… a lot of people Blamed the turmoil of that incident, IMO for good reason, on him. I didn’t go look up Dallas Light Rail running into a car and say “well look at Dallas”…The Boston & WMATA ones were two high profile wheel issues, with no injuries that suspended and cut a ton of service and still causing troubles today… and that led the DOT to look into wheel issues across the country…Mind you with the issues of the Southwest Airlines meltdown, near airline collisions, the Ohio train derailment, WMATA & Boston T fiascos overlapping, there is a keen eye on these issues… Derailments happen, but these wheel issues and not disclosing and employees suing for wrongful termination… 

I don’t know how you got superiority of NoVa from my post. I used the words nightmare, lack of transparency, draconian. Yet to you that translates into superiority? Please. If I wanted to troll, I’d do it with Raleigh. Not DC.

By not being transparent in these wheel issues. It could shut down or cripple service on the blue line.  It doesn’t matter if to us it seems minor or there were no injuries / there may be some safety government crap that intervenes and mucks it up. That’s my broader concern of transparency, happening repeatedly, etc. Your concern is to be nice to CATS because you love Charlotte. We just don’t have the same outlooks and I’m not going to apologize because you think my post conveys the NoVa is a superior area. Not doing it because I don’t think that anyway. 

Edited May 14, 2023 by AirNostrumMAD

[RANYC]

1 hour ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

But this thread is about CATS, in Charlotte… Of course its problems are going to be discussed more than other cities in this thread unless you Just ignore it…. What else is there to talk about the blue line recently? Before you mention me talking about Boston & DC which both just had wheel issues that caused major shut downs and crippled one of the two for over a year which is a lot more relevant than a driver falling asleep. You brought up Denver - specifically a train driver that fell asleep. To me, that is just different than potential and unknown defects in the wheels of light rail vehicles. 

And to address the DC area being “superior”, F every time one of y’all mention me acting DC is superior because y’all crap on NY, San Francisco, Portland all the time, just a few post ago you called downtown Dallas depressing compared to CLT etc. some of y’all constantly crap on Raleigh and act like it’s a 2 stop light town, Etc. So let’s not do this “oh, he acts like DC/xyz city is superior” - it’s such crap. If I do it, it’s a lot less than the superiority vibes (of Charlotte) some of y’all give off. 

I don’t know how you got superiority of WMATA from my post when I literally said it crippled the agency for *over a year* in October 2021 and they never figured out why and to this day, they’re still adjusting frequencies up - still unknown as to the cause. An entire year, over a minor derailment of unbearable frequency with no extra bus service,  etc. Months of “we don’t know” and incompetency. And I criticized a lot. I even wrote a letter, probably useless, to our shadow representative and I celebrated when the former GM left when the derailment suspension of most of the fleet was offline… a lot of people Blamed the turmoil of that incident, IMO for good reason, on him. I didn’t go look up Dallas Light Rail running into a car and say “well look at Dallas”…The Boston & WMATA ones were two high profile wheel issues, with no injuries that suspended and cut a ton of service and still causing troubles today… and that led the DOT to look into wheel issues across the country…Mind you with the issues of the Southwest Airlines meltdown, near airline collisions, the Ohio train derailment, WMATA & Boston T fiascos overlapping, there is a keen eye on these issues… Derailments happen, but these wheel issues and not disclosing and employees suing for wrongful termination… 

I don’t know how you got superiority of NoVa from my post. I used the words nightmare, lack of transparency, draconian. Yet to you that translates into superiority? Please. If I wanted to troll, I’d do it with Raleigh. Not DC.

By not being transparent in these wheel issues. It could shut down or cripple service on the blue line.  It doesn’t matter if to us it seems minor or there were no injuries / there may be some safety government crap that intervenes and mucks it up. That’s my broader concern of transparency, happening repeatedly, etc. Your concern is to be nice to CATS because you love Charlotte. We just don’t have the same outlooks and I’m not going to apologize because you think my post conveys the NoVa is a superior area. Not doing it because I don’t think that anyway. 

Nah, not nice to CATS.  My post was in response to "Charlotte's leadership is busy trying to hand hundreds of millions to billionaires so we can have more sports here. They cannot be bothered by obvious safety issues with their only mass transit line."  I am not saying the derailment is a complete non-issue, I'm saying that we should be able to find a way to do an economic deal to recruit the Western & Southern Open while also handling incident risks that are present in the ordinary course with any public transit operation.  My post was about proportionality by seeing CATS ineptitude in a bit of context, not sweeping it under a rug.  As for crapping on NY, SF, Portland, well, I can't recall when I've done that but I'll have to take a look at my post history when I actually care.

Edited May 14, 2023 by RANYC

[15895]

40 minutes ago, RANYC said:

Nah, not nice to CATS.  My post was in response to "Charlotte's leadership is busy trying to hand hundreds of millions to billionaires so we can have more sports here. They cannot be bothered by obvious safety issues with their only mass transit line."  I am not saying the derailment is a complete non-issue, I'm saying that we should be able to find a way to do an economic deal to recruit the Western & Southern Open while also handling incident risks that are present in the ordinary course with any public transit operation.  My post was about proportionality by seeing CATS ineptitude in a bit of context, not sweeping it under a rug.  As for crapping on NY, SF, Portland, well, I can't recall when I've done that but I'll have to take a look at my post history when I actually care.

You obviously care a lot when you started talking about superiority this and superiority that. Superiority? All because I point out the crazy debacle of MBTA & WMATA and the incompetencey that led to the ouster of both GM’s? Over derailments, specifically with WMATA the wheels? That they still don’t know and for 7 months did nothing? That’s acting superior?  

I didn’t see it mentioned here, maybe I missed it, I didn’t post. Because quite frankly, I assumed no one must’ve cared enough here. NCDOT mentioned suspending service of the blue line… that was on my mind, among other CATS issues such as the employee fired suing the city for wrongful termination and several other quite bad and damaging articles coming out over quite a while now. THAT is why it also reminded MBTA & WMATA that has to face extended shutdowns, long service interruptions etc.  when other agencies and departments got involved over a minor derailment. NCDOT doing surprise inspections and mentioning suspending service opens up a whole can of worms of the NCDOT going overboard. There are so many reasons it didn’t make sense to suspend service over the minor derailment with WMATA for even a week much less over a year. 

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article273924445.html

Had I not read NCDOT mention the idea of remedies up to the suspension of blue line service. Maybe it wouldn’t be on my mind as much. But you think the point of my post is superiority. Ok. 

To the bold. I think that is a perfectly NORMAL reaction by a citizen. I hear stuff like that all the time. Everywhere. Especially when it comes to funding stadiums (some of y’all even mentioned Nashville spending money on stadiums but not on mass transit so. It’s valid) And I can’t say it’s an invalid feeling to have. This is the city that has railroad tracks for a train station yet… is the station going to be built? So. I think it’s valid to question the leaders priorities. 

Edited May 14, 2023 by AirNostrumMAD

[elrodvt]

I think you each have good points which could be made much more politely in order to flush out those points instead of turning it into this. Just saying.

[kermit]

Los Angeles resident who wrote a very well received book on exclusionary zoning rides the Blue Line today live tweets his ride. Outsider urbanist perspectives on Charlotte are my favorite thing. I reckon he is in town for the CNU so I suspect there will be lots of these takes this week.

https://twitter.com/mnolangray/status/166326536 so 631616?s=20(for some reason direct links to the twieeter seem broken)