Charlotte Knights AAA Ballpark in Third Ward

[navigator319]

We can't even support an NBA team...this is insane guys. It isn't going to happen , nor should it.

 

I was at Bobcats game last night and soooo many empty seats in the lower bowel and off course 200 level too.  Obviously was a Saturday night and the tickets are so cheap.  No way would MLB tix be as cheap as what the Bobcats offer.

[15895]

With Childress going up and Vue Casting a shadow over the knights stadium and the knights hotel going up... I'm going to assume we are going to have the absolute best minor league ball park. I don't know any of the others, but how could anything be better than ours?

MLB would be embarrassing if it failed here. Why suck in MLB when we get an be the best in minor league?

ATL doesn't have every major league sports team neither. We have NBA, NFL, and MLL. MLB would be cool, but I don't see it neither and it's not going to happen. We got the Knights and I'm thrilled.

I want the Charlotte Hurricanes. Now THAT... I wanna see

[jednc]

We can't even support an NBA team...this is insane guys. It isn't going to happen , nor should it.

We most certainly can support an NBA Team. We did it for years and led the league in attendance. Today's attendance for the Bobcats is about the product on the court, nothing more. This is what I was referring to earlier....these kind of statements. There's nothing about that comment based in truth. Charlotte fans simply choose not to support the Bobcats...it has nothing to do with "can" or "can't". The Astro's attendance was third worst in MLB last season. Can Houston "not" support an MLB team?

 

So far this season the Bobcats have averages 15,471 in attendance. That means on average the arena is 81% filled. The number is claimed to be attendance, which means tickets sold should be higher. I think that's phenomenal support for a team as terrible as the Bobcats have been.

[jednc]

With Childress going up and Vue Casting a shadow over the knights stadium and the knights hotel going up... I'm going to assume we are going to have the absolute best minor league ball park. I don't know any of the others, but how could anything be better than ours?

MLB would be embarrassing if it failed here. Why suck in MLB when we get an be the best in minor league?

ATL doesn't have every major league sports team neither. We have NBA, NFL, and MLL. MLB would be cool, but I don't see it neither and it's not going to happen. We got the Knights and I'm thrilled.

I want the Charlotte Hurricanes. Now THAT... I wanna see

I wouldn't mind Charlotte having an NHL Team, but I don't want it to be the Hurricanes. I'm glad NC has more than one professional sports market. The NHL might be a tougher sell in Charlotte anyway...with it's overlap with the NBA. One team would not survive would be my fear.

[HopHead]

We most certainly can support an NBA Team. We did it for years and led the league in attendance. Today's attendance for the Bobcats is about the product on the court, nothing more. This is what I was referring to earlier....these kind of statements. There's nothing about that comment based in truth. Charlotte fans simply choose not to support the Bobcats...it has nothing to do with "can" or "can't". The Astro's attendance was third worst in MLB last season. Can Houston "not" support an MLB team?

 

So far this season the Bobcats have averages 15,471 in attendance. That means on average the arena is 81% filled. The number is claimed to be attendance, which means tickets sold should be higher. I think that's phenomenal support for a team as terrible as the Bobcats have been.

 

As a Bobcats season ticket holder, I can tell you that the attendance listed is not the number of people actually in the arena, BUT rather tickets sold. Like the Panthers (and many sports teams throughout the country in general) they list number of tickets sold as the official number. Whether or not they all show up is a different story. I've been to plenty of games where the listed attendance is say 15,000 and there may only be 10,000 people in the arena. That being said, Charlotte does support its teams when they are winning, typical to a lot of fan bases south of Mason Dixon line. I noticed a huge difference when the Bobcats made their playoff run in 2010. Now that the team is bad, the enthusiasm will be down. If they start becoming a playoff team, that will change. You can bank on that.

 

Going back to what others were saying however, I still don't buy MLB working here either. For many of the reasons brought up above and I've even stated in the past. However, come 2014, lets enjoy this new gem that will be in uptown. 

[Urbanity]

. I'm glad NC has more than one professional sports market. 

I agree with this completely.   I wouldn't be opposed to an MLB team or MLS team eventually landing in the Triad.  

 

I'm not making the case for them being able to support it now or even within the next decade, but I like the idea of multiple major league franchises throughout the state.

[Eightane]

First off, new member, long-time lurker, hi all.

 

I'd agree wholeheartedly with Urbanity, on if the Triad could land MLB. Considering they're the midpoint between the only two larger metros in the state (and if speaking of a day trip, almost within a reasonable drive of either), I should think that counts for something if it's ever on the table.

[RugbyPike#11]

I wouldn't mind Charlotte having an NHL Team, but I don't want it to be the Hurricanes. I'm glad NC has more than one professional sports market. The NHL might be a tougher sell in Charlotte anyway...with it's overlap with the NBA. One team would not survive would be my fear.

 

I don't know how feasible this would be, but I'd love to see the Hurricanes play something like 25% of their home games in Time Warner Arena.  They already have an appropriate geographic name for a move like that, and I know a lot of transplants down here who would be totally thrilled to see NHL hockey in Charlotte.  If we can get 13,000 people to watch a Checkers game, I bet we can sell out plenty of Hurricanes game.  The Hurricanes' average attendance is over 16,000, and Time Warner only seats about 14,000 for hockey, so the Hurricanes would have to make up that money in ticket prices or some piece of Suite sales. I would be even happier with a permanent move because playoff hockey is a whole other level.  I would even be willing to let Raleigh keep 25-50% of the regular season home games if we could get the team for the playoffs.

 

Also, I hope Jordan gets bored with the Bobcats and sells the team to somebody who can build a winner.  He is a dreadful owner and an even worse NBA Executive.  With the new luxury tax rules, I think even big spending teams will start treating the luxury tax threshold as a hard cap, which will benefit the smaller market teams like the Hornets.... er, the Bobcats for now. 

[RugbyPike#11]

I'm not much of an MLB or MLS fan, but I think we'd do better with an MLS club.  I know many of the MLS clubs prefer smaller stadiums than BOA, but a handful of the clubs do play in NFL stadiums, and BOA was built with a wide enough field to be used for soccer.  Most clubs only average 15-20 K attendance, but Seattle averaged over 40 K attendees in Centurylink Stadium!  It would be great to get all those extra events out of Bank of America.  It does nobody any good to be sitting there unused.  Alternatively, I think it would be cool to see a restored Memorial Stadium, but that project would required widening the field of play and probably cost prohibitive.  

[cltbwimob]

I would like to comment on some of the tangential comments. Forgive me, I usually do not like doing this but I will try to be brief.

We can't even support an NBA team...this is insane guys. It isn't going to happen , nor should it.

In the first 10 seasons of the Charlotte Hornets existence (once again at a time when the city was much smaller), the Hornets lead the league in attendance for 8 of those and had over 350 straight sellouts. I agree the Bobcats are not well supported, but that is most likely due to extenuating circumstances surrounding the arena deal, Bob Johnson, etc.; not because we are unable to support. To say we can not support an NBA team is a patently false statement.

With Childress going up and Vue Casting a shadow over the knights stadium and the knights hotel going up... I'm going to assume we are going to have the absolute best minor league ball park. I don't know any of the others, but how could anything be better than ours?

MLB would be embarrassing if it failed here. Why suck in MLB when we get an be the best in minor league?

ATL doesn't have every major league sports team neither. We have NBA, NFL, and MLL. MLB would be cool, but I don't see it neither and it's not going to happen. We got the Knights and I'm thrilled.

I want the Charlotte Hurricanes. Now THAT... I wanna see

The thought that just because we [hypothetically] had an MLB team it would somehow suck continues to confound me, yet the argument gets dogmatically peddled on this thread as if it were gospel. In fact, the two most likely candidates for relocation are the Oakland A's and the Tampa Bay Rays both of which are fairly consistent playoff contenders. Furthermore, it is not a settled argument that Charlotte would have a low attendance team. Several of the teams in Charlotte's peer cities (Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, Cincinnati) have respectable attendance records. Since the most likely candidates for relocation are good teams, and Charlotte's peer cities have respectable attendance numbers, is this argument meant to say that the stadium itself would suck? If you believe that have you seen any of the recently built MLB stadiums? Most of them are some of the most gorgeous structures within their respective cities. BB&T park does not hold a candle to the PNC parks and Busch Stadiums of today. Even the most modestly designed MLB stadium (Cisco field;the proposed San Jose stadium) is leaps and bounds ahead of BB&T. In summary I do not understand how we would "Suck in the MLB" just because the UP members say we will, yet I expect that argument to continue to advance in this thread despite the noticeable lack of evidence to back up such an assertion.

For argument's sake though, the reason one would rather suck in the MLB versus being the best in MiLB is the same reason App State would rather be mediocre to bad in the Football Bowl Subdivision, rather than be the kings of the FCS as they have for much of the past 7 years. It's the same reason that a school would rather be knocked out in the first round of the NCAA tournament than to win the National Invitational Tournament. It comes down to two words: money and prestige.

As for the NHL, I would love to see the Canes come to Charlotte, but according to your argument and most on this forum, Charlotte can not support MLB, even though it would be the only summer season sport (aside from MLL but that league is incredibly small and is more or less negligible for analysis purposes) and would not really compete against the other sports in the city since there is little overlap in the seasons. However it could support three major league winter season sports???

I agree with this completely. I wouldn't be opposed to an MLB team or MLS team eventually landing in the Triad.

I'm not making the case for them being able to support it now or even within the next decade, but I like the idea of multiple major league franchises throughout the state.

If Charlotte can not support MLB, I doubt very seriously the Triad could. Charlotte is a lot more populated and growing at a much faster rate. the Charlotte area population might eclipse 3 million before the Triad reaches 2 million. It is tempting for some to say it is centrally located in between the two largest metro areas in the state and therefore could be successful, but if that is true, you must also consider that the Charlotte is surrounded by other metro areas to include the Triad, the Unifour, The Upstate (SC's largest metro area) and the Columbia metro area in addition to the fact that Charlotte is by far the largest metro region in both states. Here is a comparison of the Triad and Charlotte area populations assuming that adjacent metro areas are also included as part of the catchment area:

Triad (CSA): 1.65 million

Triangle (CSA):1.8 million

Charlotte (CSA): 2.45 million

Total: 5.9 million (approximately)

Charlotte (CSA): 2.45 million

Triad (CSA): 1.65 million

Upstate SC (CSA): 1.25 million

Columbia (CSA): 0.8 million

Unifour (MSA; no census bureau defined CSA):0.4 million

Total: 6.55 million (approximately)

Furthermore, to be a true Carolina team, a team must be located in a city where it is accessible to residents of SC as well. Placing a team in the Triad to be a Carolina sports team would alienate SC fans. I believe this is one reason why the Carolina Panthers are a true regional success despite their ho-hum record for most of their existence whereas the Carolina Hurricanes only appeal, in large part, to those in or near the Triangle.

Edited January 21, 2013 by cltbwimob

[15895]

I meant I didn't want to suck in attendance, not the actual stadium. Also I meant I can't imagine a better minor league stadium than we will have.

As far as having MLB... It will be at very very earliest 15 years from now. Doesn't matter about population; it matters that the Knights stadium is being built as we speak. And it's working as a catalyst to spur development and transform III ward and continue Charlottes march towards making uptown a destination. That was the goal. I dont think it ever had anything to do with sports or anything except economic development.

Speaking of which you can watch The Panthers, Charlotte Bobcats, Charlotte Knights, And Charlotte checkers in uptown. It'd be cool if UNCC could play uptown a few games

Edited January 21, 2013 by AirNostrumMAD

[Urbanity]

If Charlotte can not support MLB, I doubt very seriously the Triad could. Charlotte is a lot more populated and growing at a much faster rate. the Charlotte area population might eclipse 3 million before the Triad reaches 2 million. It is tempting for some to say it is centrally located in between the two largest metro areas in the state and therefore could be successful, but if that is true, you must also consider that the Charlotte is surrounded by other metro areas to include the Triad, the Unifour,

 

You do realize that the my quote that you responded to specifically stated I wasn't making the case for MLB in the Triad now or even in the next decade.  It was focused on the idea of NC having multiple National franchises throughout the state.

And not to beat a dead horse - but Charlotte will not be an MLB eligible city for at least that long either.  Sorry.

Edited January 21, 2013 by Urbanity

[DMann]

You do realize that the my quote that you responded to specifically stated I wasn't making the case for MLB in the Triad now or even in the next decade.  It was focused on the idea of NC having multiple National franchises throughout the state.

And not to beat a dead horse - but Charlotte will not be an MLB eligible city for at least that long either.  Sorry

Getting a MLB team is more about having somenone with money who believes can make more money by having a team here  Mark Cuban is an ego driven guy who has the ability to drive something like that.  Without a dynamic owner, the city could never develop a team.

The Carolinas has a pretty good tradition of baseball, and that will continue here with the Knights.  I believe the biggest issue here will be that once they commence playing downtown, ALL the games will be sold out.  I believe season ticket holders will not be hard to find, and I believe that once a popular activity is happening right in front of us, the media will pick it up and we will be all Knights all the time.

I believe more importantly to the city is the structural impetus that is happening because of the Romare Bearden Park and BBT Stadium.  In 5 years it will be unrecognizable, gone will be all the surface parking lots.

Considering the bond referendum that failed back in 2002 (?), we now have an downtown arena, Discovery Place has gone through some renovations, the Mint Museum is downtown, as will be the baseball stadium, all with the help of public money. 

[cltbwimob]

You do realize that the my quote that you responded to specifically stated I wasn't making the case for MLB in the Triad now or even in the next decade.  It was focused on the idea of NC having multiple National franchises throughout the state.

And not to beat a dead horse - but Charlotte will not be an MLB eligible city for at least that long either.  Sorry.

I absolutely realize that your quote stated that you were not making the case for MLB in the Triad.  I used your comment as somewhat of a proxy to make the argument that if MLB does not make sense in Charlotte then it likely does not make sense in the Triad.  There is a contingent of naysayers who believe that Charlotte can not support it because the population is not in place.  Yet some of those same people (not you necessarily) will state that the Triad would be able to support MLB.  I actually heard this not just on this thread but the local media as well.  Furthermore, it is usually qualified by stating it is at the midway point between Charlotte and Raleigh, without giving attention to the fact that Charlotte actually has more metro areas and by extension [if this is the metric by which MLB's chances of success are measured] Charlotte has a greater population if the metros around it are included as part of the catchment area.  But CSA poulation matters most for weekday games, as it is not likely that a team will garner much attendance beyond a 40 to 50 mile radius for those, and Charlotte has the largest CSA in either state by a large margin. 

 

I actually agree that Charlotte will not likely see the MLB until 2025 at a minimum.  Where I break from the conventional "wisdom", and I use that term in it's loosest sense, is that I actually believe that Charlotte has the ability to support MLB.  But it did not give enough attention to the possibility that Oakland or Tampa Bay might be looking to move in the next 5 years and went ahead with a less than optimal deal with the Knights, and with that less optimal deal came BB&T ballpark which has no provision for expansion to MLB size despite the fact that there have been four teams that have mentioned Charlotte as a possibility since 1998, and a there are rumours swirling that Tampa Bay may be looking to relocate to the city in a couple of years.  As such, the city blew it...they absolutely blew it with the Knights.  They should have mandated that since the stadium is half-supported by tax money between the city and the county, that it be expandable to MLB standards.  But they did not.  They settled for second rate.  This is the type of regressive thinking that I think we as a city may come to regret in the next few years.

[Green_man]

I definitely think Charlotte should field a professional soccer team; however, the logically league would be NASL (Division 2).  Within the next 5 years, the league will be around 14 teams and most teams will average between 5-15k fans per game.  Couple that with Raleigh getting a MLL franchise and the rivalry possibilities could be huge for the region.

 

As an aside:  a lot of cities talk about MLS but the truth is, MLS is not going to continually expand.  After NYC2 and Orlando they will likely hold steady for awhile.  This puts NASL into a very strong position to become a legit Division 2 league with an ever increasing talent pool to draw from.  My prediction is that 10 years down the road, the level of play will not be a huuuge step down.

[DMann]

They should have mandated that since the stadium is half-supported by tax money between the city and the county, that it be expandable to MLB standards.  But they did not.  They settled for second rate.  This is the type of regressive thinking that I think we as a city may come to regret in the next few years.

 

 

 

When was the last time any professional team agreed to move into a modified stadium as part of their move to a new city?  Ever?  I don't think so.

[15895]

Hornets?

The city funded this stadium as a catalyst to revitalizing III ward. It can be modified for other uses probably if we did Get MLB. UNCC stadium...

Edited January 21, 2013 by AirNostrumMAD

[cltbwimob]

They should have mandated that since the stadium is half-supported by tax money between the city and the county, that it be expandable to MLB standards.  But they did not.  They settled for second rate.  This is the type of regressive thinking that I think we as a city may come to regret in the next few years.

 

 

 

When was the last time any professional team agreed to move into a modified stadium as part of their move to a new city?  Ever?  I don't think so.

I said it should have been mandated that the stadium be modifiable meaning that the structure should have been designed such that the MiLB luxury boxes and press boxes could be taken down and replaced with an upper deck and other features that make it appropriate for MLB.  The city and county could have absolutely mandated an MLB expandable clause as part of the deal to receive taxpayer money, but they did not.

 

Actually, the current Knights stadium was built so that it could be expanded to house a major league team.  Buffalo's minor league stadium is expandable, and TD Ameritrade park in Omaha is also expandable to 35 K seats.  Making a stadium expandable is not a new idea.  And just to answer your last question, Portland's MLS team play in Jeld-Wen field which was the home of their Minor League Baseball team prior to the team.

Edited January 21, 2013 by cltbwimob

[DEnd]

With Childress going up and Vue Casting a shadow over the knights stadium and the knights hotel going up... I'm going to assume we are going to have the absolute best minor league ball park. I don't know any of the others, but how could anything be better than ours?

 

 

There are a few Minor league ballparks that are "better" than the one we will be getting, Autozone Park in Memphis comes to mind, as does Huntington Park in Colombus, OH.  That's not to say that Charlotte's won't be a great park however.  The skyline views will make it something special in the minors.  The rest of the park from what I've seen is really good, but there is some pretty stiff competition out there as far as "best" would be concerned.

[jednc]

That being said, Charlotte does support its teams when they are winning, typical to a lot of fan bases south of Mason Dixon line.

Could you provide some data to back this up? It seems like an unnecessary dig and to be honest, unless you can provide some evidence, it weakens your argument. I guess it would be like me saying "typical northerner".

I would like to comment on some of the tangential comments. Forgive me, I usually do not like doing this but I will try to be brief.

In the first 10 seasons of the Charlotte Hornets existence (once again at a time when the city was much smaller), the Hornets lead the league in attendance for 8 of those and had over 350 straight sellouts. I agree the Bobcats are not well supported, but that is most likely due to extenuating circumstances surrounding the arena deal, Bob Johnson, etc.; not because we are unable to support. To say we can not support an NBA team is a patently false statement.

The thought that just because we [hypothetically] had an MLB team it would somehow suck continues to confound me, yet the argument gets dogmatically peddled on this thread as if it were gospel. In fact, the two most likely candidates for relocation are the Oakland A's and the Tampa Bay Rays both of which are fairly consistent playoff contenders. Furthermore, it is not a settled argument that Charlotte would have a low attendance team. Several of the teams in Charlotte's peer cities (Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, Cincinnati) have respectable attendance records. Since the most likely candidates for relocation are good teams, and Charlotte's peer cities have respectable attendance numbers, is this argument meant to say that the stadium itself would suck? If you believe that have you seen any of the recently built MLB stadiums? Most of them are some of the most gorgeous structures within their respective cities. BB&T park does not hold a candle to the PNC parks and Busch Stadiums of today. Even the most modestly designed MLB stadium (Cisco field;the proposed San Jose stadium) is leaps and bounds ahead of BB&T. In summary I do not understand how we would "Suck in the MLB" just because the UP members say we will, yet I expect that argument to continue to advance in this thread despite the noticeable lack of evidence to back up such an assertion.

For argument's sake though, the reason one would rather suck in the MLB versus being the best in MiLB is the same reason App State would rather be mediocre to bad in the Football Bowl Subdivision, rather than be the kings of the FCS as they have for much of the past 7 years. It's the same reason that a school would rather be knocked out in the first round of the NCAA tournament than to win the National Invitational Tournament. It comes down to two words: money and prestige.

As for the NHL, I would love to see the Canes come to Charlotte, but according to your argument and most on this forum, Charlotte can not support MLB, even though it would be the only summer season sport (aside from MLL but that league is incredibly small and is more or less negligible for analysis purposes) and would not really compete against the other sports in the city since there is little overlap in the seasons. However it could support three major league winter season sports???If Charlotte can not support MLB, I doubt very seriously the Triad could. Charlotte is a lot more populated and growing at a much faster rate. the Charlotte area population might eclipse 3 million before the Triad reaches 2 million. It is tempting for some to say it is centrally located in between the two largest metro areas in the state and therefore could be successful, but if that is true, you must also consider that the Charlotte is surrounded by other metro areas to include the Triad, the Unifour, The Upstate (SC's largest metro area) and the Columbia metro area in addition to the fact that Charlotte is by far the largest metro region in both states. Here is a comparison of the Triad and Charlotte area populations assuming that adjacent metro areas are also included as part of the catchment area:

Triad (CSA): 1.65 million

Triangle (CSA):1.8 million

Charlotte (CSA): 2.45 million

Total: 5.9 million (approximately)

Charlotte (CSA): 2.45 million

Triad (CSA): 1.65 million

Upstate SC (CSA): 1.25 million

Columbia (CSA): 0.8 million

Unifour (MSA; no census bureau defined CSA):0.4 million

Total: 6.55 million (approximately)

Furthermore, to be a true Carolina team, a team must be located in a city where it is accessible to residents of SC as well. Placing a team in the Triad to be a Carolina sports team would alienate SC fans. I believe this is one reason why the Carolina Panthers are a true regional success despite their ho-hum record for most of their existence whereas the Carolina Hurricanes only appeal, in large part, to those in or near the Triangle.

This is very sound reasoning to me. Well said and well thought out.

[CharlotteDave]

I'm one who does believe that Charlotte could support Major League Baseball, but it's sort of a moot point.  There  simply aren't any teams available right now and no plans for expansion in the foreseeable future. People can talk about the possibility of relocation, but that's a real long shot. That's why I believe Charlotte's best chance to get Major League Baseball in the future is by building this ballpark and hopefully becoming one of the national attendance leaders. If they do that, I think we'll see Charlotte quickly emerge as one of the top expansion candidates just like it used to be.  When Baseball finally decides to expand agian,  I think Charlotte should have a good chance to get a team, but until then, we just need to enjoy this new ballpark, which I am excited about.

 

The main negative you often hear associated with this ballpark is the parking issue. I see this a lot first hand with older family friends, senior citizen types who are not the the type that would take the light rail. As a result, they're very negative about the uptown location and don't act as if they're planning to go to any games in the new park. That's a shame because they're typically big baseball fans who used to go to a lot of games in the old ballpark known as Crockett Park. I hope the Knights can find a way to reach out to them, maybe through group sales or special promotions. Maybe if they can go with a church group on a bus they'll be willing to go to some games.

 

Given the new developements in recent months, it appears likely that the Bobcats will probably change their name to the Hornets. If that doesn't happen for some reason, I'd love to see the Knights take the name. As most probably know, that was the name of our minor league baseball team for the better part of a century going back to 1901 in Latta Park. 

[kermit]

^ Given the relatively modest attendence expectations parking at BB&T field should be significantly better than parking for the arena or BofA stadium. I rarely hear parking complaints for those sites, what does the 'drive up to the door' demographic do for games there?

 

Nothing ticked me off more than paying to park in a paved cornfield in Ft Mill.

[nowensone]

cltbwimob, don't mean to pick on your statement even more, but not sure how expandable the stadium could have been based on the lot size in question, for one, nor how much sense it makes given the difference in financial burdens on a team, minor versus major leagues.  Minor league would seem to be much more sustainable, meaning no empty blighted stadium at some point, a real possibility given what seems to be a diminishing interest in MLB and the difference in support costs.

 

As such, the city blew it...they absolutely blew it with the Knights.  They should have mandated that since the stadium is half-supported by tax money between the city and the county, that it be expandable to MLB standards.  But they did not.  They settled for second rate.  This is the type of regressive thinking that I think we as a city may come to regret in the next few years.

 

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For me, obviously this it total opinion, Minor league is much like college level athletics, and I think a much more exciting prospect for this location, and more accessible cost-wise, which long term contributes to a greater and more loyal fan-base.  I am more likely to forgive a bad team if I'm paying $10 a ticket instead of $40 (just making those numbers up).  Not to mention I am more likely to go for social reasons if the cost is not prohibitive, versus a yearly trip I must budget for.

 

As to the idea of baseball and the Triad, I hope not, I do think basketball/soccer might work, but beyond this, the one selling point for the Triad would be that there is nothing there yet to "split" macro level ticket costs with, from a level 1 professional perspective.

Edited January 22, 2013 by nowensone

[cltbwimob]

cltbwimob, don't mean to pick on your statement even more, but not sure how expandable the stadium could have been based on the lot size in question, for one, nor how much sense it makes given the difference in financial burdens on a team, minor versus major leagues.  Minor league would seem to be much more sustainable, meaning no empty blighted stadium at some point, a real possibility given what seems to be a diminishing interest in MLB and the difference in support costs.

 

 

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For me, obviously this it total opinion, Minor league is much like college level athletics, and I think a much more exciting prospect for this location, and more accessible cost-wise, which long term contributes to a greater and more loyal fan-base.  I am more likely to forgive a bad team if I'm paying $10 a ticket instead of $40 (just making those numbers up).  Not to mention I am more likely to go for social reasons if the cost is not prohibitive, versus a yearly trip I must budget for.

 

As to the idea of baseball and the Triad, I hope not, I do think basketball/soccer might work, but beyond this, the one selling point for the Triad would be that there is nothing there yet to "split" macro level ticket costs with, from a level 1 professional perspective.

I am glad you brought the issue of stadium size to light.  For information purposes, Target Field in Minneapolis sits on an 8 acre parcel, which is the same size as the Knights parcel.  Target Field was also voted by ESPN to be the best experience in Major League Baseball.  To be fair, the Target Field parcel is less rectangular than the Knights parcel, however this issue could be corrected by either moving Graham street to the west, or tunneling Graham street as part of the infrastructure improvements. 

 

As far as minor league being more sustainable, I can't speak specifically to that, but I can say this, MLB franchises are on average 30 times more valuable than AAA teams, generate 15-25 times the revenue, have huge payrolls that average somewhere between $70-100 million per year, have stadiums that average 10-12 times the value of AAA stadiums (valuation based property taxes are much higher).  In addition, average attendance is about 3-4 times the attendance of MiLB for more games per year (rather than 600k people roaming the streets of downtown for the duration of the season, you would see approximately 2 million downtown for the season) which means that local area restaurants bars and shops have 3-4 times more potential customers which increases sales tax revenue and the list goes on and on and on...To say that minor league is more sustainable completely ignores the fact that average attendance at a MLB stadium can be 40% and the team can still be a perfectly viable and profitable entity.  The Knights, who average 40% attendance in Ft. Mill, lose money.  And I will remind you that once the Knights leave Ft. Mill , they will leave a blighted stadium behind. Additionally, interest has been picking up in MLB recently, especially with the new wildcard rules.  In fact, according to a Forbes report on the business of Baseball, the average value of teams rose 16% from 2011 to 2012 due to the recent uptick in interest.

 

As far as minor league creating a greater and more loyal fan base,  I will challenge you to prove that to me.  Until AAA has better financials than MLB and better attendance I won't believe it, because it is simply not true.  Professional sports will always garner a more loyal fan base than the minors. Even when the Orioles were one of the worst teams in baseball they would have more fans night after night in Camden Yards than a minor league team will have on its best nights.  I will leave you with this question: if there is a greater and more loyal fan base for minor league baseball, then why did the fact that the Knights went to the International League Championships last year go almost unnoticed for this UrbanPlanet thread which is populated by a large self-proclaimed group of Knights fans, and why was it scarcely reported in the local media?

Edited January 22, 2013 by cltbwimob

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^ I don't follow any sports but I clearly remember the chatter here and reading it on both th observer and th CBJ.

Look how popular the checkers are. I'd rather watch a checkers game than a Hurricanes game because I love the Checkers. Even if the canes played a few games here I'd rather watch the Charlotte checkers because its our team. And the checkers IMO get good respect in our city. I'd only prefer going to Triad for MLB over the Charlotte Knights to see teams like the Red Sox, Diamond Backs, Braves, Yankees, Dodgers and Cardinals.

Edited January 22, 2013 by AirNostrumMAD